Incels as terrorists - please write to your MP

[Poptasmagorical]

As the debate finally starts to open up about incels as extremists who have been radicalised, please can you all write to your MPs to ask them to support women by calling for misogyny-fuelled violent crime to be classified as terrorism.

The link between incels, MGTOW & MRAs with the far right can also be used as a supporting factor if you think your MP is unlikely to be swayed by please from women to be treated as important. Alternatively, you might not want to mention it if your MP is a massive racist dickhead.

I recommended reading Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates in my email (others are advocating sending a copy but I can't afford to send a book I know won't be read) and if you need some supporting arguments it's worth having a scan through to make your case stronger.

It's about time that terrorism as a crime against society stopped discounting women as part of that society.

You can find your MP at theyworkforyou.com

[QueenPeary]

I don't disagree at all that it's terrorism, but I'm a bit worried that incels would quite like to be classed as terrorists and see themselves as extra badass fighters in some ideological war against women. Incel murderers often take their own lives. If you're prepared to die, there's nothing to stop you deliberately organising bigger terror acts as part of a deliberate terror campaign.

[Poptasmagorical]

Couldn't that be said of all extremist ideologies, though? I'm not sure it's an argument against the classification.

Labelling it extremism means that it's easier to spot for parents/teachers etc because they know that it exists. It shows those who are vulnerable to their advances that it's more than a community of likeminded men on the Internet.

But it is a fair point you've raised and would definitely need debating.

[QueenPeary]

Yes that's true, and I actually I do think other forms of terrorism also attract unhappy, lost individuals in a similar way via media coverage and the idea of notoriety, and maybe that can't be avoided. I agree that making it terrorism would mean more monitoring for it and more severe consequences for pursuing it.

But at the moment incel attacks are fairly rare and most people don't see incels as having a great "cause", as such (IMO) - they're just unhappy, angry men who fail to take responsibility for their own lack of appeal to women. I'm worried that attacking women for the sake of it will become an official cause-like thing that young men will be drawn to, especially in the current climate.

But yes it's all debatable. It's just the first thing I thought of when I saw this on the news.

[Poptasmagorical]

I think it's problematic to call them young troubled men who can't take responsibility. It's always vulnerable people who are radicalised, so I'm not sure they're much different in that way.
I feel like we're just talking down their guilt because we're attributing different expectations to young white men than brown men with beards.

I'm not expressing this very well; what I'm trying to say is that we're almost buying into the white privilege that they're trying to deny having. We're downplaying what they're doing, almost like the lone wolf vs terrorist argument.

[Naunet]

But at the moment incel attacks are fairly rare and most people don't see incels as having a great "cause", as such (IMO)

We can’t possibly know that? Mass shootings are rare, but what about rape? How many rapists are incels or MGTOW or MRAs? How many have killed one person and no link was ever made in the media because men killing women is so standard in the news? This is why misogyny needs to be a hate crime.

[QueenPeary]

Oh - I wasn’t thinking of a race difference. To me (maybe because of my age and it’s the terror campaign that’s been closest to me) when I think of a terrorist my first image is of a white (irish) man, then I think of Islamic terrorism second. When I think of incels, i don’t think white, just any young man. I don’t think all the attackers have been white, though it depends what you count as white I suppose. The Toronto one was of Armenian heritage for example.

By saying they don’t take responsibility, to me that is putting the blame on them, not excusing them.

[QueenPeary]

naunet, yes you’re right and of course plenty of rapes, arguably most, are about misogyny and anger acted out on a more individual label. I should have specified that I meant terror attacks in the sense of causing terror and harm to as many as possible for the purposes of getting attention for a cause.

[QueenPeary]

Level not label

[Mooey89]

Incels are specifically covered as part of the PREVENT strategy so there is foundation there

[Poptasmagorical]

@Mooey89

Incels are specifically covered as part of the PREVENT strategy so there is foundation there

I didn't actually know that. Is that a recent thing? I did prevent training but it was probably six or so years ago that I last updated it as I don't work in the same setting now. It's definitely progress.

[Poptasmagorical]

@QueenPeary

Oh - I wasn’t thinking of a race difference. To me (maybe because of my age and it’s the terror campaign that’s been closest to me) when I think of a terrorist my first image is of a white (irish) man, then I think of Islamic terrorism second. When I think of incels, i don’t think white, just any young man. I don’t think all the attackers have been white, though it depends what you count as white I suppose. The Toronto one was of Armenian heritage for example.

By saying they don’t take responsibility, to me that is putting the blame on them, not excusing them.

I was very young when the IRA were prolific so it's not something that immediately sprang to mind for me. Maybe this is something we need to bear in mind when we contact politicians who are older?

I get what you're saying about not taking responsibility but it's something that's being spun in newspapers and comments to play into the mental health excuse.

[Mooey89]

I think it might be. When I first did it I don’t remember incels being covered but I might have just not picked up on it, however recently we were sent an update and it was in there so definite progress.