Feminism: chat
Sex on the NHS - "sex surrogacy"
SmallPug · 08/08/2021 16:20
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-on-the-nhs-disabled-man-loses-prescription-for-intimate-sessions-sxkz70j2s
I'm interested to get other people's thoughts on this. I have sympathy for Thomas but I find this line of argument about sex really troubling.
PlanDeRaccordement · 08/08/2021 16:50
Sounds more like prostitution and this isn’t something the nhs or taxpayers etc should be funding
Yes agree it is simply NHS paying for disabled to have free use of prostitutes. Really need to abolish prostitution. It doesn’t matter who is paying, it’s still exploitation of (almost exclusively) women.
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/08/2021 20:58
Found the previous court case on this:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56937149
A senior judge has ruled it is lawful for carers in specific circumstances to help clients find and pay for sex.
The ruling found it would be wrong to stop them helping a 27-year-old man with mental disabilities fulfilling a natural desire.
MN discussion at the time:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4232040-Carers-allowed-to-help-clients-visit-sex-workers?pg=1
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 08/08/2021 22:59
It is notable that alleviating stigma and perception for one protected characteristic lie at the heart of a number of decisions that seem to conflict with the rights of women (also a protected characteristic).
In April the Court of Protection ruled it would be lawful for carers to help a 27-year-old man who is autistic and has a rare genetic disorder to use a sex worker.
The ruling was welcomed by many but likened by others to “soft pimping”. It is being appealed by Robert Buckland QC, the justice secretary, whose lawyers said “using public resources to organise prostitution” was “tacitly approving an activity that continues to be regarded as a moral minefield”.
Williams intends to appeal against the NHS decision to withdraw his funding. “The money in itself isn’t what makes it legitimate,” he said. “But funding it as a medical need allowed me to see it in the same way as I would a surgical procedure or a tablet. It’s a medical need and a necessity.”
archive version of Times story: archive.is/uOZTf
I should think the appeal process might take some time. I wonder if, in the interim, the confidence he gained from those sessions and associated therapy might assist him in forming a relationship with someone. However, I'm apprehensive that perceiving that degree of intimacy as medical need…in the same way as I would a surgical procedure or a tablet indicates otherwise.
OhHolyJesus · 09/08/2021 08:15
'Surrogate' is being used to disguise the truth, same as how it is used for when a woman gives her baby away.
This is a further blurring of language, I believe it is deliberate, and as no one has a right to a child, no one has a right to sex either.
Claiming it is a medical need is not even a stretch, it's just entitlement as the plain old 'demands' made by activists.
I am sorry for what this man has suffered physically but tax-payers money is better spent elsewhere. He works as an advisor on disability inclusivity for big corporations like the BBC and Sky, he can pay for his own 'sex therapy' so the woman who 'delivers' doesn't become a state-sanctioned prostitute for the disabled.
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/08/2021 10:37
@CloseYourEyesAndSee
Sex surrogates, sometimes referred to as surrogate partners, are practitioners trained in addressing issues of intimacy and sexuality. A surrogate partner works in collaboration with a sex therapist to meet the goals of their client. This triadic model is used to dually support the client: the client engages in experiential exercises and builds a relationship with their surrogate partner while processing and integrating their experiences with their therapist or clinician.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_surrogate
FionnulaTheCooler · 09/08/2021 10:50
Getting laid isn't a human right, for anyone. There are plenty of people, both disabled and able bodied, who haven't been able to find a consenting partner to have a fulfilling sex life with. I do have sympathy for people in this situation but I also believe that sexual consent can't be bought and the sex industry is highly damaging for a majority of women involved in it.
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/08/2021 10:53
It’s not a relationship!
It's a business client relationship? That may have rather more than the usual transactional relationship people have when they pay for sex and some offer specialist training.
There's a discussion of an agency that does this in the thread linked upthread.
I was absolutely disgusted to read this. Prostitution ( that’s what it is!) paid for by the tax payer. There’s also mention of sex toys
Is the objection to the:
– prostitution;
– funding by the tax-payer;
– sex toys?
If prostitution, I share the objection. I know that many people support prostitution as an occupational choice and dismiss the objections around exploitation and trafficking.
That it's funded by the tax-payer as part on overall £255K p.a. care package - specified at £23 a week? Would it be OK if he paid for such therapeutic assistance from his own earnings?
Use of sex toys? They seem to be very popular and advertised on MN. Would it be OK if he bought them from his own earnings?
Overall, is the squeamishness that an adult male (in this case) with a number of profound disabilities is interested in sex and is resisting having his sexual self ignored?
Clymene · 09/08/2021 11:00
It's not 'squeamishness' to object to the state funding prostitutes @EmbarrassingAdmissions 
This man has no mental disability. He's degree educated but is basically arguing that because he can't get a girlfriend, the state should pay for a prostitute.
Thousands of men can't find girlfriends, spa large number of whom are probably neurodiverse. They don't have a right to women's bodies either.
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 09/08/2021 11:03
It's not 'squeamishness' to object to the state funding prostitutes @EmbarrassingAdmissions**
Which is why I didn't link the two and wrote a separate sentence that reflects the findings that many people with disabilities find it difficult to have other people treat them as adults with a sexual self (the report in the Times piece).
Overall, is the squeamishness that an adult male (in this case) with a number of profound disabilities is interested in sex and is resisting having his sexual self ignored?
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