Menopause at the centre of increasing number of employment tribunals

[cariadlet]

Interesting article in today's Guardian

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/07/menopause-centre-increasing-number-uk-employment-tribunals?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Yes.

It's an area where I'm conflicted given the potential to use it against women.

However, I am fully aware of the disruption it causes and the accommodations made for other conditions.

A large number of women quit their jobs every year due to menopause symptoms.

That adds to the pension/ income/ poverty gap for older and retired women and men.

It's just one thing after another all related to our biology that has this massive accumulated impact on our incomes etc.

And of course we live much longer generally.

This is the sort of structural issue that is so 'normal' and look at all these explanations that screws us totally.

Also even loads of women say. My periods never bothered me. Menopause was no probs. Well you decided to have a baby! So it's a tricky one.

Everything essentially was set up around male experience/ average. From exams to who design of seatbelts to well everything.

And that's so normal that for us is it's always been. Just get on with it/ things that don't work for you it's you being too short/ weak etc. Yes reproduction is a pretty major thing for mammals and you happen to have the baby side.. But the consequences of that cannot be accommodated. Don't be so weak/ grasping etc.

Humph.

(In peri and started hot flushes a couple months ago. I had no idea they could include racing heart, dizziness, shortness of breath etc. Well that was a nice surprise!).

Final usual note that the guardian use women in this piece the COWARDLY HYPOCRITICAL BASTARDS.

Some stats:

'Research carried out by PensionBee has revealed that depending on age and location, the UK gender pensions gap is as high as 57%. The online pension provider found UK men have saved £24,236 towards their retirement compared to just £15,006 saved by UK women, which is a 38% gap in the size of their pension pot'

'female pensioners have a net weekly income that is approximately 85% of their male counterparts
women account for approximately 61% of pensioners above state pension age
over two-thirds of pensioners living in poverty are women.'

6 years ago FYI:
'Women returning from maternity leave are more likely to face discrimination in the workplace than they were a decade ago, according to a report published today by the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

The study by the EHRC estimates that around 54,000 new mothers are losing their jobs across Britain every year – almost twice the number identified in similar research undertaken in 2005.

It also found that 10% of women were discouraged from attending antenatal appointments by their employers, putting the health of mother and baby at risk.'

'In addition to the classical symptoms of hot flushes and mood swings, menopausal symptoms can affect confidence, concentration, energy and ability which can negatively affect work performance. Up to 10% of women actually stop work altogether because of their severe menopausal symptoms.'

Last one!
'About 80% of women experience some symptoms of the menopause, brought about when ovulation stops as a result of hormone levels dropping. One in four have severe symptoms, including anxiety and depression, which can lead to them being diagnosed with mental health problems and prescribed drugs.
In one survey of more than 1,100 women, undertaken by the menopause clinic Newson Health and published last month, 94% said they felt their work had suffered as a result of their symptoms, and 53% said their colleagues had noticed a deterioration in their performance.
Just over half had taken time off sick, and one in 10 had missed more than eight weeks of work.'

Effect of menopause dismissed not just with work places. Am perimenopause and also domestic violence situation. Places meant to help not all of them but some don't understand or care. Makes difference to what help you need sometimes. Made things harder in refuge and also makes the need to be settled and safe place of own so strong. More strong need when perimenopause menopause. Worse symptoms also if not able to do self care.

It's not just the traditional menopause symptoms that affect women, but the loss of oestrogen affects our whole bodies. Whilst going through various tests I found out that 50-60 is a prime age for us to develop various cardiovascular and neurological conditions, for example as our blood vessels lose elasticity. It's also an age where we are likely to be caring for our own parents, I've had to put off my own medical needs because those of my DPs have been more urgent.

Seems unconscionable that women are being put through this by their employers when we know that even when we go the the GP to ask for HRT or other help, they will often not supply it or will not be able to recommend any treatment. It’s an example of system-wide misogyny.

@ChattyLion

Seems unconscionable that women are being put through this by their employers when we know that even when we go the the GP to ask for HRT or other help, they will often not supply it or will not be able to recommend any treatment. It’s an example of system-wide misogyny.

Agreed, I'm almost useless at work now. Cant remember simple instructions, cant remember words, conversations stutter to a halt while I figure out a different word, the aches are so bad I want to rip off limbs, one period in 3 is so awful I want to just curl up in bed, and on and on etc etc.Glad I have a fabulous boss and decent company to work at, if I worked elsewhere I'd probably have to quit or be managed out. And the first thing my GP wanted to try was anti anxiety meds. Ffs I'm not anxious I'm fucking angry.

I'm exactly that kind of woman who's had such severe peri symptoms I needed to quit my job. I'm lucky as I had a fallback career that is much more flexible, plus a working DH. My single co-worker is going through similar menopause issues and she was put on a "work improvement plan" DESPITE her telling our manager her background and DESPITE my quitting for the same reason. I've heard from other co-workers that our manager now only wants "young workers who have stronger commitment to the job."

I feel particularly let down because my manager was a woman in her early 40s, who I hope will feel some shame when she hits this inevitable biological truth in a decade. I'm in the US and we don't have many work protections outside some union professions.

for everyone affected and sorry you’ve had such a difficult time. I hope things get easier soon.

Women do not talk about peri or menopause either. Maybe younger ones do. Society and even many female relatives consider it taboo. The expectation is that you get some hot flashes, sweat a lot, no sex drive, lose your looks. That's it. No one should fuss. And this is from females, largely too. I know I'm not the only one. Know many semi-old women who believe they are gravely ill with various diseases etc when imo I think are in peri or menopause. I only know from looking online but never even bothered with that til got older.

Even had a female relative say that no employer should or has to deal with your problems so just keep quiet about em, suck it up, it's part of being an adult. Physical or mental problems. Us girls told you should never tell your employer any female problems or mental even if you went to a dr for it. So in my mind my whole life I've concluded that being an adult in working world is keeping anything about your body or mind problems secret, or else it's your fault if you're fired, derided etc. Which in real life might be good advice cuz employers don't carewe are robots for the economy. If we are sick or die, oh well, many more humans to replace you. Internalized misogyny I guess. Also trying to compete with men. Have had a number of men and women life say this is why a woman president wouldn't be favored by men or lots of women-cuz she will be too ill, forgetful, hormonal, etc etc.

I suppose we are meant to just plod along. It is deeply-rooted societal issue I don't see going away soon unless 75% of people in power were women, and even then seems iffy.

People are treated like cattle/robots so that's what's gotta change. And it needs to be more accepted that in reality, human bodies get sick etc. You are meant to work yourself to death or sickness no matter the cost. All to survive/get money for that. All to make a select few on the planet super rich, healthy, safe.

It's very sad. But no, I don't think employers care about their workers at all. Money is the bottom line. Or power. I bet once more advanced robots and machines pop up that most people will be obsolete because of the reason that biological bodies get sick, ill, injured, as do minds.

Big companies who have an obligation to consider balance of M and F senior execs might care - because replacing 50+ year old female talent is expensive and looks bad.

I think that's about it.

There was a discussion on Woman's Hour yesterday about the menopause and its effects on oral health - eg changes to teeth and a burning mouth sensation. One of the experts said that the effects of the menopause were ongoing and that even if the most obvious symptoms ended, hormonal changes still continued.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000ystq

I know I had never heard of the perimenopause until a few years ago (on Women's Hour too, I think). My knowledge about the menopause was very limited too.

I suspect that in the past many women left the workplace early or went part time so very little attention was paid to how women were affected at work.

omg, I never heard about the menopause and oral health relation either until just a few years ago. My dentist brought it up--she said that if you're woman and over 30, you should ideally get your teeth cleaned every 3months, not 6 (even that's all most insurances cover is 2 a year!), cuz of the hormones changing, it affects your teeth, oral health. Explains why over some past handful of years, despite not doing much different as far as food, oral care, I go in for cleanings with pretty messed up teeth. However my insurance won't cover more than two, and I even tried to pay for one out of pocket, saved for it, but every single dentist place I called said I would have to have an xray even just to get a cleaning, that it's dentist laws, so I'd have to pay it was like well over 100$, i think was even over 200$ just for a mouth xray just to get a cleaning.

So I've just accepted I'll have bad teeth. My teeth aren't horrible, but definitely not great, and I've had erosion and gum problems and stuff. I can tell that even even after a few months it's like I really need a cleaning, but, alas, no. I guess it's no one else's fault I'm not rich enough to pay for extra xrays and etc.

My mom had a hysterectomy when she was in peri, so went into medical-induced menopause. She never said this, but imo, it affected her teeth cuz over some few years afterwards she lost a number of teeth that had to be pulled and stuff, and it's not like she didn't brush her teeth and all that.

Wingless, I’m in a similar situation - dental hygienist telling me to go for 3 monthly cleans but I can’t afford it. I’ve started using the TePe interdental brushes and some Corsadyl gel, and the gums have definitely improved. The gel causes a bit of staining but she said to go with it and she’ll clean that off when I go, but it should help to stabilise the teeth at least.

Just seen that there’s actually a Parliamentary call for evidence about this issue: very definitely worth responding to if you have some time to do that, to let MPs know the impact this experience is having on a lot of women, anything you think that could practically help, any things that definitely don’t help. It seems really important to try to raise the political profile of this issue.
committees.parliament.uk/work/1416/menopause-and-the-workplace/

‘The committee wants to hear your views. We welcome submissions from anyone with answers to the questions in the call for evidence. You can submit evidence until Friday 17 September 2021.’

BUMP
If you have an bank holiday time spare to submit anything to these MPs then please do so!

It's just one thing after another all related to our biology that has this massive accumulated impact on our incomes etc.

I think it's because the industrial workplace - so for about the last 200 years or so - has been organised around the male body, the male life pattern, and male socialisation.

Women's fights (since the 19th C) to enter that workplace have been on the grounds of entering, working, and being paid the same as men.

And that struggle has been so hard that we've had to overlook or ignore the fact that female bodies, the female life pattern, and female socialisation are different from men's.

When trying to claim 'equal rights' to acknowledge that difference was seen as acknowledging weakness - by male-dominated institutions. I"m old enough to remember the legal deterination for equal pay in the 1970s, and things like the excuses for not employing women in male-dominated areas of employment "No ladies' toilets." And so on.

At the time, we couldn't talk about our different biological bodies because that would have undercut the argument for equal pay, equal pensions, equal conditions and so on. And within the feminist movement there was a legitimate anxiety over being "essentialist" - as female biology has been used against us for centuries (the Victorian argument for not educating women was that it would cause us to become infertile etc etc etc).

So here we are: female bodies are squeezed into a male-shaped workplace, and it's not working - we need a strong dose of 'difference' feminism. And we need to recognise biology.

Isn't it interesting that at a time when we are starting to work on this as a public policy, we are in the midst of a sex culture war, with a strong lobby group trying to erase sex?

A very uncanny coincidence yes..