Mansplaining breastfeeding

[NaturalStudy]

Luckily a man who has rented a woman's womb has arrived to give us his view on breastfeeding. Lucky us.

www.howisfeedinggoing.com/

Hmm, this article is about not shaming parents who decide to FF and one of the contributors is a male couple. How you've chosen to extrapolate that and make this whole thread about "mainsplaining breastfeeding" is a little confusing... Actually, no, it's not confusing at all. It is the Feminism section after all, therefore we must at all costs demonise men and completely ignore the number of female contributors to that article who have, for various reasons, chosen to FF and focus on the men.

And you mention surrogacy in terms of "buying babies" and the "renting a woman's womb". Because it's obviously inconceivable that women can make informed choices and chose surrogacy for themselves. I'm not saying exploitation doesn't happen in some circumstances, but to imply that surrogacy must always involve exploitation infantilises women and implies we are incapable of weighing up pros and cons and making decisions for ourselves. Views like these do women no favours whatsoever.

Actually, no, it's not confusing at all. It is the Feminism section after all, therefore we must at all costs demonise men and completely ignore the number of female contributors to that article who have, for various reasons, chosen to FF and focus on the men.

Not sure I could love a paragraph so much.

@Givemebackmylilo

I find the idea that FF parents are a downtrodden group constantly being shamed very strange

This in itself provokes a feeling of upset and shame.

Almost a "well surely if it's the norm then you can't be shamed. Don't be so silly. You're doing what the majority do and therefore no one will say anything against you"

I get that there are judgemental people out there who nitpick, I had a child at 16/17, I know judgement exists. Literally every parent experiences unwanted advice though.

The campaign wasn't even about that. I skimmed through and it was about people making "assumptions" (from what people generally do). Hardly something to get worked up about.

Absolutely some people are preachy about infant feeding. As I've seen on MN, many FF feeders are defensive on their choices, and take offence when none is to be taken - like the ad campaign

@SweatyPie

Not sure anyone could miss a point so much, yet here we are,

@SweatyPie

And. if you feel FF parents come across as defensive, maybe question why that is?

Also...

Breastfeeding women are very much judged. I was accused of abuse/neglect for trying to breastfeed and supposedly under nourishing her (despite her never losing weight). And general shame from a religious background.

If we're going to argue FF is judged, I'd say so is breastfeeding, if you're around dickheads.

@SweatyPie

Also...

Breastfeeding women are very much judged. I was accused of abuse/neglect for trying to breastfeed and supposedly under nourishing her (despite her never losing weight). And general shame from a religious background.

If we're going to argue FF is judged, I'd say so is breastfeeding, if you're around dickheads.

Stop acting as if it's a battle where one is worse than the other.

Both get horrendously shamed.

The sooner both 'sides' accept that, the better.

Women BF - are shamed.
Women FF - are shamed.
Men FF - sure we can blame women for this one too...

I find the idea that the main issue Tan is currently facing while waiting for the baby he’s bought to he handed over to him is people wondering whether he’s also going to buy a woman’s milk really intriguing. I thought donor milk was usually for premature babies, not surrogate ones.

But thanks to this handy propaganda website he doesn’t have to worry. Lucky old him.

@SnoozyBoozy I didn't focus on the women in the video because it is absolutely their right to chose, without being shamed, whether they FF or BF. My focus was therefore on the man who decided that what the world needed was to hear his view on FF and BF (for which he was no doubt handsomely recompensed by a formula company).

I simply said he had rented a woman's womb, which is true. The rest of it about 'women not being able to make an informed decision' came from you, not me.

@Wh0Knew

It is advertising for a formula company - of course they are going to push non-breastfeeding. Bottom line = ££££.

Good point. Formula companies have such strict rules about what and where they can advertise, they are always looking for ways to undermine breastfeeding. Worth bearing in mind.

"I need the conversation around feeding to change so my child when he's older doesn't feel like a lesser child."

Exactly who is discussing whether a 7 year old was bottle or breast fed in order to make the child feel lesser? Common topic around the water fountain in the playground at the office?

Bizarre

Surrogacy contracts in the US can include a 'pumping' clause, so that could be called 'donor milk' I supposed but it would come from the mother and would be paid for as part of the commercial arrangement rather than donated.

Tan could feed bottled breast milk if he chose, no one but him, his partner snd the woman who expressed the milk would know.

Oh and the baby, that minor matter of a newborn, he, she or then might notice.

Views like these do women no favours whatsoever.

Do they not, how about the babies?

thought donor milk was usually for premature babies, not surrogate ones.

My baby was very, very sick and has a life limiting condition which meant he couldn't breastfeed (heartbreaking for me)

We weren't even close to being entitled to breast bank so I can't imagine what you have to do to get it.

I pumped for a long time. Beyond when it was helpful to me or baby. I totally get why FF are defensive. A lot of the time the person that judges you most for failing is yourself.
People waxing lyrical about bf just salts the usually very fresh wound.

To be honest, I think it’s better if he doesn’t exploit women’s bodies even further by demanding they also pump milk for him.
Breast is best is definitely pushed and there are bans on food banks stocking formula milk for instance. Women are embarrassed to say they formula feed. They might not be a minority but there is stigma. Let women choose and stop judging them for it. For many it just doesn’t work out or not for a long time anyway, yet ff children seem to thrive.
It’s also a big class issue so to fully address it you’d need to tackle a lot of the existing social inequalities.

I think that breaks a ton of codes.

I'm all for discussion about how we talk about infant feeding, the affect on mother's who aren't able to breastfeed, why there is so much shaming and emotional baggage etc but this isn't it. It's just a way to advertise formula and make money

It's interesting timing that this page seems to have come up all over social media in World Breastfeeding Week.

I'd not want to suggest that companies know exactly what their doing with their shit advertising, but the Tommee Tippee 'error' full of lies designed to make breastfeeding sound awful plus this and it looks an awful lot like companies are desperate to undermine breastfeeding. You can't make a fortune off breastfeeding though.

Women are embarrassed to say they formula feed. They might not be a minority but there is stigma. I think it's something like 25% of women exclusively breastfeeding at 3 months and it drops to 1% by 6 months. (In England.) So definitely not a minority that formula feed.

I must be in the wrong crowd then because all my friends bf. It is still very lonely as most of them are still going.

It’s very class-dependent. Among the affluent middle classes, uptake is high, especially during the first few months and stigma is a lot greater if you don’t. Among other sectors of the population, it’s a lot lower and maybe there is stigma there if you do. A big part of the problem though is health professionals pushing it and not accepting that it doesn’t work for some. Ditto pushing natural births on women with sometimes disastrous consequences. Ditto minimising pain relief. It all stems from not seeing women as capable of making choices for themselves about their own bodies.

Exactly who is discussing whether a 7 year old was bottle or breast fed in order to make the child feel lesser? Common topic around the water fountain in the playground at the office?

Recent school gate conversations have mostly been about how shit the pandemic is. Pre-pandemic it was chit-chat about the weather, work, and what a pain in the arse the latest "creative project" is going to be. Nobody wants to make a fecking Tudor house or a Viking longboat figurehead!

The comment about the child being ‘lesser’ is probably more related to the whole surrogacy thing. I doubt dads are policed over breast feeding at all. He’d have to use a bottle in any event, no matter what it contained.

I suppose we should feel grateful that those blokes aren't taking prolactin and trying to lactate themselves.

And that is really quite a bizarre thing to be 'grateful' for, but here we are in 2021.

Among the affluent middle classes, uptake is high, especially during the first few months and stigma is a lot greater if you don’t. Among other sectors of the population, it’s a lot lower and maybe there is stigma there if you do. A big part of the problem though is health professionals pushing it and not accepting that it doesn’t work for some.

Only me and one other of my group of friends have breastfed (of about 15 women), and that was equally as lonely. It was a struggle for me not to be able to hand baby over to my husband for a night out, none of my friends understanding why, and not really being "allowed" to mention BF.

Curiously, I'd say we are probably quite high up there on the class list. We're from a relatively affluent area and have well-regarded professions. (Whatever that really means, hopefully you get the jist.)

Also, my midwife asked me how I planned to feed and then said no more about it. I even quizzed her on it and she said their general policy was to not talk about feeding because it's so emotive. They tick their data box in terms of the mothers intention and then the conversation stops there. I assume that will policy is different for every trust.