The default male

[Insertfunnyname]

I’m getting fed up with “he” being the default pronoun for every animal/bird/bug/Teddy/toy

My friend was showing his young child our hens (who all lay eggs and are obviously female) and was pointing each one to his child as “look at him!” “Oh he is pecking the grass” etc.

It’s not just men who do it unfortunately it’s every woman I know too. “I love your Teddy what’s he called” or “look at the slug he is leaving a trail” or “wow that bird in the book is collecting sticks for his nest”

I just had an argument with my husband as he is also programmed to do this. We have 3 sons and he defaults everything to male when talking to them. He says “what’s the harm. I’m male so that’s my default” he even argued that our friend ‘misgendering’ the hens didn’t matter as the hens don’t speak English.

I can’t articulate how horrible it is to have my sex constantly “othered” and I don’t want my children to grow up with male as the default. I try and use she/her as the default about toys/cuddly animals/t-Rex figurines etc and usually people overhearing are surprised. If I say “look at the snail don’t stand on her” then friends will say “oh that’s interesting how do you know it’s female?” Whereas nobody EVER says that when people use “he”

My husband says women are welcome to default to she and men can default to he but frustratingly ALL the women I hear talking to their children use he(!!) even women talking to daughters.

I can’t seem to make my husband understand the problem with this. He truly sees it as a non issue and says I’m sending the feminist cause backwards by caring about such a ridiculous thing that makes no difference. Ie save my breath for the big problems.

Does anyone else relate? Any words of wisdom to make my husband understand why I’d rather not bring my sons up as the next generation of “he/him-ers” I think he’d get it more if we had daughters which we don’t.

As an aside please join me in using she/her for everything to try and combat it!

[Nordicwannabe]

I very deliberately always use non-sexed words like police officer, firefighter, delivery driver with DD. It's actually more expressive, and pretty easy once you're in the habit. DH says it's too tricky to remember, which I find

I also always deliberately default to female pronouns for high-status jobs like Doctor and MP which people usually assume are male. Then again, most of the doctors we know are female, so I think that's pretty embedded in DD's mind!

It sometimes feels like trying to turn back the tide, but you have to try.

[ScreamingMeMe]

@SourAppleChew

Misgendering of chickens. 🤣 Sorry, I think you need to get a grip. Others may disagree.

Whooosh

[Twinkletwinklelittlecar]

I too use she wherever possible but it still can slip out to male.

[grey12]

@whatmattersisthatyoulove

I agree, I had to correct my very clever extended family for referring to the cows looking over the hedge as male. This includes oncologists, lawyers etc " Oh look at him" I was seriously, they can only be female and you still use he. Also took my year one class to the zoo, I said about the rhino " oh look, she is walking towards us" Every parent helper asked me how I knew it was female.

Actually when I learnt english (as a 2nd language) animals were all "it" found it weird because such a thing doesn't exist in my language

[tanstaafl]

Maybe stop saying ‘Guys’ to every group of people and especially groups of women?

[KimikosNightmare]

@tanstaafl

Maybe stop saying ‘Guys’ to every group of people and especially groups of women?

And yet I've seen that being promoted vigorously on here as being far better than "ladies and gentlemen"

I hate it.

[GrrrlPwr]

I hate being called a guy. I'm just not one.
What's the alternative? Laideeez sounds naff. Girl is unacceptable.

[ErrolTheDragon]

I got into the habit of using 'guys' having worked with Americans for decades. I'm trying to get out of it, being persuaded it's not interpreted as neutral here.

A true neutral such as simply 'everyone' is often the best solution in many cases, I think.

[Monoxide]

Historically “he” was used as a gender neutral term to mean everyone. They would also use “mankind”, “postman”, “chairman” etc. It was only in the 60s that people started to whinge it wasn’t inclusive. Tbh it doesn’t bother me, imo it’s a tidier solution than he/she or they.

[tanstaafl]

There doesn’t need to be an alternative to Guys.
Just don’t say it.
Or anything else.

Ok , let’s move on.
Hi , how can I help?

[ShadowInVain]

@GrrrlPwr

I hate being called a guy. I'm just not one.
What's the alternative? Laideeez sounds naff. Girl is unacceptable.

'Everyone'
'People'
'Folks' (informally)

[DuesToTheDirt]

Historically “he” was used as a gender neutral term to mean everyone. They would also use “mankind”, “postman”, “chairman” etc. It was only in the 60s that people started to whinge it wasn’t inclusive. Tbh it doesn’t bother me, imo it’s a tidier solution than he/she or they.

People like to claim it was gender neutral, but it wasn't really. Studies have shown that, for instance, if you write an article using phrases such as 'Mankind discovered fire," "He made cave paintings," etc., and ask subjects to illustrate it, they will mostly draw pictures of males. If you rewrite the article with 'Humans/people', 'They' and so on, the illustrations people make then magically include women.

[ArabellaScott]

@DuesToTheDirt

Historically “he” was used as a gender neutral term to mean everyone. They would also use “mankind”, “postman”, “chairman” etc. It was only in the 60s that people started to whinge it wasn’t inclusive. Tbh it doesn’t bother me, imo it’s a tidier solution than he/she or they.

People like to claim it was gender neutral, but it wasn't really. Studies have shown that, for instance, if you write an article using phrases such as 'Mankind discovered fire," "He made cave paintings," etc., and ask subjects to illustrate it, they will mostly draw pictures of males. If you rewrite the article with 'Humans/people', 'They' and so on, the illustrations people make then magically include women.

Yes, this was where the 'mankind breastfeeds his young' and 'mankind gestates his young in his womb' examples came from, to disprove that the male is 'neutral', at all.

I mean, I thought we had made this point about fifty years ago, but there you go.

[ArabellaScott]

'whinge'

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I default femaled every toad, whale, bee, everything. I love loudly doing it about bees, chickens and cows just so men challenge me and can be told they're wrong

DD is clearly so brainwashed she can't do it the other way because when we watched Marvel she repeatedly referred to the spy/nurse as the doctor. I corrected every time but she defaults back.

I can't stand default male.

[MargaritaPie]

"My friend was showing his young child our hens (who all lay eggs and are obviously female) and was pointing each one to his child as “look at him!” “Oh he is pecking the grass” etc."

Maybe the hen is identifying as male and wishes to be referred to as "he"?

(joke)

[WinglessSonglessBird]

I have always connected with girl/woman/she energy, and I tend(ed) to automatically assign "she" to everything if it wasn't stated (still do) cuz I wanted it to be a girl. And, yes, I too have noticed odd looks etc for it. It just shows that society on some level (through everyone being ingrained with this) WANTS everything to be/present as male.

Notice though: people, especially men, refer to their cars and boats as she. That's ok, I guess, cuz they are men's objects, to be used, driven, fawned over, so of course they would default to a she

[TeiTetua]

@MrsTerryPratchett

I default femaled every toad, whale, bee, everything. I love loudly doing it about bees, chickens and cows just so men challenge me and can be told they're wrong

DD is clearly so brainwashed she can't do it the other way because when we watched Marvel she repeatedly referred to the spy/nurse as the doctor. I corrected every time but she defaults back.

I can't stand default male.

You can default female ants, too. But not termites! They are quite different.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

You can default female ants, too. But not termites! They are quite different.

This right here is why I love Mumsnet!

[Niconacotaco]

My nine year old recently told me he thought doctors were male and nurses were female. He thought they did the same job though, like actor/ actress and was quite embarrassed about his mistake.

[felulageller]

I've tried to neutralise language with the DC's but it's a uphill struggle.

DS argued with me about it once so we went through the cbeebies schedule and wrote down how many of the shows had named female characters and how many had female Vs male titular characters. That shut him up.

[FlyPassed]

Haven't rtfh so apologies if I'm repeating but the default male is a problem that sometimes costs women's lives.

Crash test dummies in male proportions have ensured that women are more likely to die in RTCs than men. Many medications are not properly tested on women. Heart attack symptoms differ, but the ones we always hear about are male-pattern. Plus lots of other problems of various degrees right down to minor niggles like phones being too big.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

[Karwomannghia]

@felulageller

I've tried to neutralise language with the DC's but it's a uphill struggle.

DS argued with me about it once so we went through the cbeebies schedule and wrote down how many of the shows had named female characters and how many had female Vs male titular characters. That shut him up.

This reminds me of the bedchel rule- a way of analysing women in films by whether it features 1) 2 or more women 2) who have a conversation together 3) about something other than a man. Many don’t pass.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

@felulageller

I've tried to neutralise language with the DC's but it's a uphill struggle.

DS argued with me about it once so we went through the cbeebies schedule and wrote down how many of the shows had named female characters and how many had female Vs male titular characters. That shut him up.

And how many times there are groups of male characters and one female (lots) compared to groups of females with one male character (pretty much never). Because male characters get to have personalities and styles. 'Female' is the personality.

That's why I consider My Little Pony a feminist masterpiece. I'm not even joking.

[felulageller]

Bit what's even worse about my little pony and kids TV of that generation is that the new versions are so much more sexist!

We really have gone backwards.