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Feminism: chat

Why aren't girls being protected

15 replies

MadameKali · 22/07/2021 21:56

Dd has been on a National Citizenship Service course over the last couple of weeks.

She's told me this evening that one of the boys there has been sexually harassing and has assaulted one of the girls (arse slapping - not that it makes any difference what "level" of assault it was). He's generally been making a nuisance of himself and making the girls feel uncomfortable.

The kids have reported this to the course leaders and basically nothing has been done. This boy has been allowed to continue on the course.

It's their last day tomorrow and she didn't want to tell me before now in case I stopped her going for the rest of the course. I would never have stopped her going. Why should she miss out because some boy doesn't know how to keep his hands to himself. But, if I'd known earlier I could have raised this with them and get something done about him. As it stands I've had to settle for sending them a strongly worded email on their complete inaction towards this boy.

I'm absolutely furious. Why are organisations - whose purpose is to build up the confidence of the kids in their care - failing to act to keep girls safe from predatory males? Giving them the message that public spaces are not for girls. That they can't expect to not be harassed.

Also really upset that Dd didn't tell me because she thought I'd stop her going rather than tackle the problem head on.

Are these organisations fit for purpose?

OP posts:

AssassinatedBeauty · 22/07/2021 22:43

This organisation seems to have very limited info about safeguarding on their website. Your DD and friends did the right thing by speaking to the course leaders. They have let her down massively by taking no action. I'd want to know what their detailed policy is around safeguarding and what actions they should have taken. If they still can't tell you that then I'd follow through on their complaints procedure and negatively review them on any platform I could find.

I'd be interested to know the sex of the course leaders that claimed that nothing could be done about this horrible boy.


BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 22/07/2021 22:45

In your shoes I would lodge a formal complaint.


LizziesTwin · 22/07/2021 22:47

Dd2 went on NCS a few years ago and was very unhappy about a fellow student being picked on/bullied. She made a complaint.


NiceGerbil · 23/07/2021 02:54

With the recent news about sexual assault in schools and the schools doing nothing I'm not surprised.

I think it's seen as a minefield to get into. Same as a lot of sexual violence against women and girls.

There's a deeply rooted societal urge to protect boys, turn a blind eye, give them leeway, boys will be boys...

Arse slap... Hm. Is that really a big deal? Sportsmen do this to each other. That's friendly. He's young. Wrong to assume bad intent.

He said she said.

Have to talk to his parents? They will say not our son.

Big hooha...

Result. Inaction.


Aquamarine1029 · 23/07/2021 03:16

Also really upset that Dd didn't tell me because she thought I'd stop her going rather than tackle the problem head on.

I would be equally as upset with my daughter but you have to swallow it. What you do need to do is talk to her about how important it is to have ZERO tolerance for this shit and the importance of reporting it. Staying silent will only make more victims.


NiceGerbil · 23/07/2021 03:41

I think say well done for trying to stand up for herself.

Some things though. What you assume will happen, the right thing will be done. Sadly it doesn't always go that way.

You did really well to raise it and it's no way anything to do with your actions that they were useless (in case she is thinking if she'd phrased it differently, said it more powerfully etc).

And that always even when she's a grown up. If and when things like that happen. She calls you and you will always have her back.



MadameKali · 23/07/2021 06:51

Thanks everyone. I'm waiting to see what response I get to my email.

It wasn't Dd who is the victim but she's clearly upset by it. What really pisses me off is that those girls who've reported it have been given the message that there's no point in reporting anything. That they just have to put up with it and keep quiet. She's really lucky - has a good mixed group of friends and none of her male friends would ever behave like that, and goes to a good high school who are quite good at tackling sexism etc. This has been an eye opener for her.

I think she'll continue to stand up against this sort of thing but the others are likely to have now been shown their place in society.

OP posts:

Jux · 01/08/2021 12:34

Is there a phone number? Phone them on Monday and explain in simple words what the problem is and then follow up with a detailed email. I have had better results this way, than by email alone.


MadameKali · 01/08/2021 14:28

@jux I sent my initial email on the Thursday night and hadn't heard anything by the Monday. Couldn't believe I hadn't even received a holding response. This was to the partner organisation who had actually run the course on behalf of NCS. I then copied the email to the NCS whistle blowing email address and had a response within about 10mins asking for further details.

They obviously contacted the partner org because they responded after about 1/2 hour with "I'm so sorry, the person you contacted is away and forgot to put their out of office on"Hmm

I've made it quite clear that they disregarded the feelings, safety and dignity of the girls involved by allowing the perpetrator to continue on the course despite them expressing their discomfort. Apparently the subject is being raised at their management meeting as I raised some good points. I'm not sure what kind of safeguarding training they go through if it took somebody to point out that it's not great practice to give an abuser free access to their victim(s)

I definitely won't be recommending NCS to anybody I know. They were supposed to go on a residential during the first week but this was cancelled due to Covid. I'm so pleased because I'm not convinced the kids would have been in a safe situation.

OP posts:

Wauden · 01/08/2021 15:22

To take this theme further, what about Operation Bullfinch, where many girls in care were ignored when they reported all levels of abuse? Including s.x trafficking.


Wauden · 01/08/2021 15:28

"On occasions the depravity was extreme.

"You targeted the young girls because they were vulnerable, you subjected them to repeated abuse and this was a pattern that repeated itself over and over again.
"Each victim was groomed, coerced and intimidated. This involved planning.

"You would build up their trust and ply them with drink drugs and the attention they craved."

Speaking about one of the girls, he added: "You took her soul."

Akhtar Dogar, 32 and of Tawney Street in East Oxford, yawned at the Old Bailey today as he was handed his life sentence with a minimum term of 17 years.

He was found guilty of five rapes, three counts of conspiracy to rape, two of arranging child prostitution and trafficking for sexual exploitation.

His brother Anjum, 31, similarly was sentenced to life with a minimum term of 17 years for three rapes, three counts of conspiracy to rape, two of arranging child prostitution and trafficking for sexual exploitation.

Mohammed Karrar, 38, of Kames Close in Cowley, received life with a minimum of 20 years for seven rapes, four charges of conspiracy to rape, two of trafficking for sexual exploitation, two of arranging child prostitution, serious sexual assault, using an instrument to procure a miscarriage and supplying heroin.

Bassam Karrar, 33, of Hundred Acres Close in Cowley, got life with a minimum of 15 years for three rapes, three charges of conspiracy to rape, two charges of arranging child prostitution and trafficking for sexual exploitation.

Kamar Jamil, 27, of Aldrich Road in North Oxford, received life with a minimum of 12 years for five rapes, two charges of conspiracy to rape, and one of arranging child prostitution.

Assad Hussain, 32, of Ashhurst Way in Rose Hill, was jailed for seven years for two counts of sexual activity with a child.

Zeeshan Ahmed, 27, of Palmer Road in Wood Farm also received seven years for two counts of sexual activity with a child.

Senior Investigating Officer Simon Morton said: “This is a great result for the victims. At last they can see justice has been done.


NormaSnorks · 01/08/2021 15:38

A few years ago NCS were recruiting for team leaders to run courses in our area - the requirements were woefully inadequate and the jobs poorly paid. A friend of ours had a daughter who left midway through a residential course as she felt unsafe from the behaviour of others on the course.
I think the idea is good, but the execution falls short, depending on the organisations recruited to running them.


Batfurger · 01/08/2021 15:59

I just did jury duty for a rape (found guilty) behaviour escalated from a "bum grope" to a really disgusting rape. (I know all rapes are but this was deliberately humiliating).

Watching the male jury members clock on that behaviour had escalated was both sad and satisfying.

3 months from bum slap to rape.


MadameKali · 01/08/2021 16:21

@Batfurger - anecdotally, I have heard from other sources that the kid in question has exhibited the same behaviour in other settings. Apparently his parents just hand wave away his behaviour and don't think he's ever faced any consequences.

When he inevitably does rape (or worse) someone, no doubt everyone will say "Well how could we possibly have known something like this would happen..?"

It really is time this behaviour is dealt with.

OP posts:
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