Police Officer to be put in charge of tackling violence against at women and girls

[CaveMum]

I hope I’m wrong but what are the odds this role will be given to a man?

Violence against women: Top police role to be announced www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57909118

[OhHolyJesus]

More on this here, same question asked, answer is basically the person who is the most qualified, which is fair and likely will be a woman as having the experience of being a woman would be relevant/required.

[Neondisco]

It would be a pretty epic pr fail for them to give it to a man. But having said that...

[DPotter]

I'm torn on this.

Yes it would make total sense to appoint a woman to the role; however should we also require her to be a survivor of domestic abuse / rape?

I would want someone who understands the landscape of violence against women, has the respect of the organisations they will need to deal with to effect change and the strength of character not to get diverted from the brief, eg by the 'domestic violence also happens to men' lobby and by the whole definition of a woman argument

[Theunamedcat]

The worst police officer i ever encountered with regards abuse was a woman the worst social worker I had was a woman too they both bowed to the penis it was sickening yes Mrs x I can see he admitted to hitting your son and shoving your daughter into the door breaking it but what did you do to cause it hmm? Why would your dd make this allegation? did you ask her too? Whose car is that always parked across the road? (The 70 year old neighbours car parked quite legally outside his own home which he shared with his wife)

[CaveMum]

Oh I agree that the best officer should be put in the position, but the optics of a male officer in the role just don’t sit right for me. It’s like that Saudi “women’s rights” panel that was 100% male a few years ago.

Perhaps it needs to be a two person role - both experienced officers but ensuring a female voice.

While there should never be tokenism, surely it takes a female to “get” what women are afraid of - men just don’t/can’t understand.

As an example, I listened to the Crime Analyst podcast with Dr Jess Taylor as a guest (I put up a separate thread about it - well worth a listen). One thing she talked about was the historic research into the fight/flight response which dictates that in a dangerous situation people will do one of the two. However the research was carried out exclusively on males and failed to acknowledge that there is a third natural response which happens in a lot of women - freeze. That’s why we end up with rape victims being questioned as to why they didn’t try and fight their attacker off - the freeze response just doesn’t occur to the majority of males.

[CaveMum]

Thinking further perhaps a solution would be to ensure that whoever the officer appointed is that they report to/are guided by a panel of experts on violence against women/girls. I’m sure we could easily name a dozen expert women’s rights activists and experts in varying types of VAWG suitable for such a role, women like Dr Jess Taylor, Karen Ingala Smith, Hibo Wardere, etc.

[NiceGerbil]

Hmmmm

Given how utterly awful Cressida dick is...

I would normally agree OP.

The police, I'm not sure the proportion of women senior enough.

Also the whole if you can't beat em join em..

How many women have got up the ladder without fully immersing themselves in the prevailing culture? My guess (and it is a guess) is very few.

So in this particular case I think man or woman. With proven track record of s long term interest in this area and doing things to improve it, speaking out for victims etc etc.

Will they be able to find anyone???

[NiceGerbil]

@CaveMum

Oh I agree that the best officer should be put in the position, but the optics of a male officer in the role just don’t sit right for me. It’s like that Saudi “women’s rights” panel that was 100% male a few years ago.

Perhaps it needs to be a two person role - both experienced officers but ensuring a female voice.

While there should never be tokenism, surely it takes a female to “get” what women are afraid of - men just don’t/can’t understand.

As an example, I listened to the Crime Analyst podcast with Dr Jess Taylor as a guest (I put up a separate thread about it - well worth a listen). One thing she talked about was the historic research into the fight/flight response which dictates that in a dangerous situation people will do one of the two. However the research was carried out exclusively on males and failed to acknowledge that there is a third natural response which happens in a lot of women - freeze. That’s why we end up with rape victims being questioned as to why they didn’t try and fight their attacker off - the freeze response just doesn’t occur to the majority of males.

There are 4-

Fight
Flight
Freeze

Fawn. Making nice with the assailant. Going along with things. To try an stop more serious harm.

[SourAppleChew]

Well, a woman would have a better understanding of being in the end of it. A man might have a better understanding of violent men and how to deal with, as well as be more likely to be able to influence other men.

[SourAppleChew]

'On the end of it' I meant.

[SourAppleChew]

the freeze response just doesn’t occur to the majority of males

Why wouldn't men also experience this? I thought it was something both sexes experienced. They can about it a lot in martial arts, which is part of the reason they drill certain movements - to be able to react instinctively.

[NiceGerbil]

Panel/ consulting experts is great idea.

[NiceGerbil]

Depends what sort of men were in the study.

Also men and women in general experience different types of crime when out and about.

If someone tried to hit me or something then I would just stand there and freeze I'd hit back defend myself or run.

Being sexually attacked is s very different dynamic IMO.

Just remembered- got held up at work when young by a man with a gun. I couldn't have moved or spoken if I tried. Rabbit in headlights. The other 2 women couldn't either.

The manager (male) could.

Interesting. I always say society the media etc essentially constantly message to women and girls that we are prey.

Men don't get that messaging.

Does that impact reaction?

Is it because men generally have been in more random fighty situation than women? Because society and the media tell them constantly that they act in the face of a threat?

Because we're generally attacked by people a whole different level of strength than us?

Is it the nature of the crimes? I can well imagine s man would freeze if he were overpowered and sexually attacked.

[nosafeguardingadults]

I'm a victim and don't care less if it's a police or an elephant. If it helped all women like me.

Police were kind to me. Not perfect cos they never interviewed the witnesses who called them several times but only cos they so busy in my area and it's my fault cos I was too scared to tell the police the truth.

Reason I was too scared cos nowhere safe to live if police involvement. Now I have no recent evidence so all that happens if council contacts them is I face being immediately homeless or attacked by him. He doesn't care about restraining orders. When he's angry he doesn't think and he has self destructive streak in him. Worse than physical violence is what he'd do to try to destroy me even more than I already am. My mental health not strong enough.

Currently trying again to get safe place. Impossible without good advocate who wants to fight for you and that depends on where you live. Spoken to some really kind domestic abuse organisations but none can help as I'm not in their area. One in my area has someone who knows me and him working with them. The other has wait of nearly 2 months for support.

Police not their fault. Its the councils. They have you for breakfast if you don't have advocate fighting for you. Sometimes it's worse than the abuse. At least he loves me

Lost so many years of my life. Temporary limbo in a sort of prison. Wasting my life. Can't even try to rebuild unless permanently safe. Applied to one council 6 months ago. They still not accepted my homeless application. They have letter from refuge and social worker and I did hour long interview giving them violating detail of the violence and abuse.

They mess around and lie. Tell me not enough evidence and then say I should apply to another council and it just goes on. The housing list is long and I'm not even on it. This time last year I was doing same as now. Hours spent each day trying to find somewhere to help, making calls, getting nowhere or given fake promises. I'm disability partly cos of the abuse. Can't just leave without help. Often wish I'd never tried to leave as false promise.

Thought I'd be rebuilding my life by now. Could try refuge again but life beem temporary on hold for years. So desperate to finally be safe and permanent. Can't try to rebuild until then and maybe too late soon. I'm not young. Understand younger women should be a priority but wish was offered better way out to die quickly cos not living am just half life like a ghost almost.

[NiceGerbil]

If he is breaking restraining orders isn't that s police matter?

I'm so sorry you are in this position.

[Monty27]

I think a police officer is probably not the best choice to begin with.
Someone externally with child protection and domestic violence experience and qualifications may fit the bill better. Pun intended.
Answerable to police governing body.

[GingerScallop]

@nosafeguardingadults

I'm a victim and don't care less if it's a police or an elephant. If it helped all women like me.

Police were kind to me. Not perfect cos they never interviewed the witnesses who called them several times but only cos they so busy in my area and it's my fault cos I was too scared to tell the police the truth.

Reason I was too scared cos nowhere safe to live if police involvement. Now I have no recent evidence so all that happens if council contacts them is I face being immediately homeless or attacked by him. He doesn't care about restraining orders. When he's angry he doesn't think and he has self destructive streak in him. Worse than physical violence is what he'd do to try to destroy me even more than I already am. My mental health not strong enough.

Currently trying again to get safe place. Impossible without good advocate who wants to fight for you and that depends on where you live. Spoken to some really kind domestic abuse organisations but none can help as I'm not in their area. One in my area has someone who knows me and him working with them. The other has wait of nearly 2 months for support.

Police not their fault. Its the councils. They have you for breakfast if you don't have advocate fighting for you. Sometimes it's worse than the abuse. At least he loves me

Lost so many years of my life. Temporary limbo in a sort of prison. Wasting my life. Can't even try to rebuild unless permanently safe. Applied to one council 6 months ago. They still not accepted my homeless application. They have letter from refuge and social worker and I did hour long interview giving them violating detail of the violence and abuse.

They mess around and lie. Tell me not enough evidence and then say I should apply to another council and it just goes on. The housing list is long and I'm not even on it. This time last year I was doing same as now. Hours spent each day trying to find somewhere to help, making calls, getting nowhere or given fake promises. I'm disability partly cos of the abuse. Can't just leave without help. Often wish I'd never tried to leave as false promise.

Thought I'd be rebuilding my life by now. Could try refuge again but life beem temporary on hold for years. So desperate to finally be safe and permanent. Can't try to rebuild until then and maybe too late soon. I'm not young. Understand younger women should be a priority but wish was offered better way out to die quickly cos not living am just half life like a ghost almost.

This has broken my heart. One thing though: he does not love you. He loves the power he has over you. And abuses that power.
Am so so sorry you are going through this. I hope someone comes along with advice on what else you can do, who else you can contact to get you out of this dangerous situation

[nosafeguardingadults]

They make you wait to be attacked again. Not the police. the councils. Maybe he'll never do it again but maybe he will. Can't know so live with the uncertainty constant risk and fear and under control of him. Destroys you. Can't cope with police and shouldn't be forced to. If emergency, will have to but if have chance to leave safely without emergency, it's better and I try but its impossible without advocate who wants to fight for you but depends on what they're like in your local area. They can't help you if you not in their area. Most so good and kind so please don't think I'm a bad person for saying about my situation.

Understand if they think not all women worth helping. Like if they decide youre someone they don't like who doesnt deserve support or permanent safe space. Maybe cos it you're older so they maybe see it as waste of a place. Maybe they want to help younger ones with more life left. Just wish they were honest if they not help for all women.

Leaving then ending up back where I started made everything worse and so tired. Head spinning from still being in prison life and facing temporary more temporary. No strength left to keep it up survival mode. Too old to be more temporary. Time going by, people dying so I'll never be able to be in contact again and they must have been so hurt but I wasn't able to be in contact. Sorry for posting. People get angry for me posting and I need to stop but not sleeping through the stress
Have flashback panic attacks being in this position waiting for another violent attack that might never happen again but might.

Went through it again this week trying to get help and the councils as bad psychological abuse as any other abuse I've had. Don't want to wake up often as can't face neverending round in circles trying to get somewhere. The woman who made me feel like greedy bad person for needing permanent safety after so much violence and fear and control and temporary life in limbo for so many years. Really upset me as she made me feel like she thought I was worthless not deserve a chance to finally be permanently safe and try to rebuild my life.

[Oblomov21]

Interesting. My heart sank when I heard it though. What is realistically going to be achieved here. If it's mainly men and just a token woman on the committee? I fear it's all for show.

[nosafeguardingadults]

Sorry know I sound spoilt and greedy for wanting something more permanent. Could try a refuge again and maybe I'll have to if things get dangerous again but I'm not young. Wasted years of my life. Don't know if strength for more temporary on and on. So tired. Feel like not much time left to try to rebuild. used to have passions, hobbies, friends, dreams. Trapped in limbo years and then temporary housing in refuge. Maybe feeling sorry for myself ungrateful today but feel so sick that no end in sight. 6 months and still not even on the list. Feels impossible too late now.

Sorry really don't want to derail. Just wish please people know what problems are so they know how to help women. To know what needs to be different or better.

Don't know if I can afford it but thinking desperate. Private IDVA or private social worker or private domestic violence counsellor who maybe will advocate. On disability benefits but can do few one off session maybe depending on cost. Sorry just if anyone has recommendations, be so grateful. Sorry bit much to ask. I'm going to try to look tomorrow.

Sorry again for coming maybe derail. Will stop now. Sorry. Had bad day with it earlier but will try to be strong again tomorrow. Sorry.

[nosafeguardingadults]

Sorry again to another post. Please don't be angry with me for saying this and know just my experience and others different. Had police out several times when partner violence. The male officers were kind. Only one that wasn't nice was a female one. Sorry know silly of me but I found that upsetting like worse than if it had been a horrible male one. Know unfair of me. After my bad DV support worker experience too, feel even more than if it's a good kind empathy male, better than a bad woman. Most DV support workers so good but some are not and can't explain why but psychologically felt worse than if it was a man.

Sorry please don't be angry. It's only how I feel and other victims may feel differently.

[WarriorN]

I've been thinking about this.

Initially I thought woman. But then I remember how we are sick of women having to be the ones to sort out male violence etc. Men should be sorting it out.

Ideally a two person role, one man, one woman. Vera Baird has been amazing for domestic violence in the North. But perhaps misogynistic men would respond better to a man?

Ultimately the best person for the job. But actually men sorting out men is what I'd like to see.

[WarriorN]

Sorry nosafe I didn't see your posts. I'm so sorry he's doing this to you and no one is listening. Have you contacted womens aid? He doesn't love you

[ErrolTheDragon]

My thoughts are much like WarriorN's

If the job is given to a woman - which I would have thought is quite likely - it pushes it into the 'women's problem' corner.

[WarriorN]

Exactly, to be dismissed.

Also, they're always shouting namalt, so then, yeah, prove it.