Let Clothes Be Clothes School Uniform report for DfE

[KatieAlcock]

Very pleased to have been involved in creating this, albeit in a very small way.

Here.

@Tibtom

£22 pound skirts? Think yourself lucky! Some private schools put girls in kilts at £70+ (dry clean only)

It's not just private schools though. My DD's state sector all girls school

Twin pack blouses £30
Blazer £57
Jumper £22.75
School skirt £30
School trousers £37.50

Meanwhile, at the boys high, they have to buy blazers and ties but can wear any white shirt and black trousers.

Pe kit is even worse. Why are the skorts so bloody short? Dd wears underarmour under hers and boils in the summer because otherwise they are daft. She's asked to wear the boys knee length shorts and been refused.

Pe kit is even worse. Why are the skorts so bloody short?
Insane when they spend ages enforcing the skirt length policy. Although ours has the same shorts for boys and girls, but the girls have to wear leggings in winter, which are skin tight and ridiculously sized - adult size 12 is xxxl. The boys get to wear joggers.

Skorts are meant to be short. Why should they have to cover up? Skorts are just a brilliant invention and I wish we'd had them at school instead of netball skirts and gym knickers!

Wow, @KatieAlcock, that is a blinding report.

I thought I was aware, but the insight into issues over the quite horrendous gender stereotyping of girls, are shocking.

For those who haven't read it, the wearing of skirts is comprehensively addressed. It certainly doesn't suggest they should not be worn.

It's obviously a tricky one. Because they are almost universally considered girls' clothes, and at the same time are absolutely loaded with judgement and value. And yet, can often be very practical and desirable.

I think the report deals with it well.

Very handily, the summary is at the very beginning of the report, followed immediately by proposals for action. Even reading that far is massively informative.

DDs school have just released new uniform guidance and girls must wear tights under a skirt all year and it's suggested they bring an extra pair in case of rips.

Luckily DD wears trousers but it's hard to find some that fit as she is short but has defined hips and waist. We have to risk the uniform police to find ones that fit everywhere and don't give her a builders bum effect.

There is a concern that if any gender neutral uniform was introduced it would actually be a boys uniform that girls were forced to adopt.

Has anyone actually found decent school shoes for girls? We've bought Clarke's brogues the last couple of times but they're flimsy and let in water.

I've tried to get DD to wear boy's shoes but even the supposedly unisex ones are from the boy's range and there is no way she'd wear them at 13.

@CornedBeef451

DDs school have just released new uniform guidance and girls must wear tights under a skirt all year and it's suggested they bring an extra pair in case of rips.

Luckily DD wears trousers but it's hard to find some that fit as she is short but has defined hips and waist. We have to risk the uniform police to find ones that fit everywhere and don't give her a builders bum effect.

There is a concern that if any gender neutral uniform was introduced it would actually be a boys uniform that girls were forced to adopt.

Has anyone actually found decent school shoes for girls? We've bought Clarke's brogues the last couple of times but they're flimsy and let in water.

I've tried to get DD to wear boy's shoes but even the supposedly unisex ones are from the boy's range and there is no way she'd wear them at 13.

That's addressed in the report, I believe. They talk about trousers for girls being based on fit.

They also say that many generic school uniforms marketed for girls would be unacceptable in 70% of the schools they checked with. Because of it being all about style, fashion, with bits and bobs attached to it, like chains etc.

It's a complicated issue, trying to de-gender the negative parts of uniform, whilst keeping choice and preference. And from what I read, they have handled it very well. Comprehensively in fact

One of the things that bugs me about the different uniforms for girls and boys is that often the girls are just put in the boys uniform and maybe allowed a skirt.

I did years of supply and one school I worked at, and only one, gave the girls the option of a shirt and tie the same as the boys but also a blouse and scarf - similar the the type you might see on a flight attendant. The blouse was also designed to be worn outside the skirt / trousers.

I've actually had a discussion with a head teacher about the fact girls get curves. I pointed out that if you see a group of soldiers the females will have trousers that look tighter over the bum because women have bums.

This was a school that put a girl into isolation because her uniform was 'too sexual', she had put socks on over her tights, no flesh on display from the neck down.

She wouldn't let me fight her corner.

Another of the many things that bug me is schools go mad with girls rolling up their skirts and then put them in skorts for PE.

I've always been glad to get back to teaching in E where students wear what they want (with a few rules about what a T shirt can say) and manage to study just as well.

I haven’t read the whole report but it’s interesting and a nuanced question.

First of all there should be a clear distinction between primary and secondary school policies. Pre puberty children’s bodies are the same and no reason why both boys and girls shouldn’t have a trousers or shorts option. There’s no benefit to a skirt or dress over shorts as far as I can see.

Post puberty it’s more complicated. I too liked wearing my tights and skirt at secondary school as it felt more protective when I had my period. But I didn’t wear skirts at the weekend so not sure why I felt this way? Maybe jeans are the way forward.

To the pps saying that uniform isn’t needed and kids know who has money anyway, I disagree. I was significantly poorer than my peers at secondary school. I dreaded non uniform day. I doubt I would have been bullied for my clothes but I would have felt different, and worried about it, and I would have hated it. In uniform it just wasn’t an issue.

As long as there’s an option for trousers, I have no problem with skirts and dresses - I’ve always found them much more comfortable than trousers and my DD was only just saying this today (she’s irritated that there isn’t a skirt option for Brownie uniform as she much prefers them).

Both DD and me are small with little legs. I’ve always had horrendous problems finding trousers that actually fit and in fact haven’t worn a pair since I was 17 as a result. I would have been horrified if I’d had to wear trousers at school - I would have been really uncomfortable and every pair would have had to have been taken up.

Trousers are not necessarily either more comfortable or more flattering for girls - especially teenage girls who are conscious of their weight or don’t want their bums on show in ill-fitting trousers. The secondary near us only has trousers now and the girls look uncomfortable and more exposed in them and none of them look like they fit well!

I think for primary the Italians have the right idea, a grembiule which is a type of smock worn over the child's own clothes.

Thank you @ErrolTheDragon for posting the link.