Let Clothes Be Clothes School Uniform report for DfE

[KatieAlcock]

Very pleased to have been involved in creating this, albeit in a very small way.

Here.

Great report!

My DD is 3.5 and very active so I often buy her “boys” shoes and trousers as they tend to be tougher. Not looking forward to navigating school uniform next year.

Your report made token gestures about retaining a choice although the bias against that was pretty obvious.

Are you pleased your daughter doesn't now have a choice given your report started off saying No one can doubt that skirts are less practical than trousers ? Apart from of course the girls who clearly expressed a preference and explained why trousers were not "more practical"?

I see the report managed to get in the usual nonsense about cycling.

@KimikosNightmare I didn't write the report, I just contributed a small part, so you'd be better off accusing LTBT.
I enjoy wearing dresses and so does my DD but no way can I cycle in a pencil skirt.

[quote KatieAlcock]@KimikosNightmare I didn't write the report, I just contributed a small part, so you'd be better off accusing LTBT.
I enjoy wearing dresses and so does my DD but no way can I cycle in a pencil skirt.[/quote]
I didn't say "pencil skirt" I managed at least 5 miles a day for most of my teenage years in my school uniform skirt.

Wow - incredible insight. Huge well done to you and your co- creators. I'm just deeply saddened that this needed to be written. I grew up in another country and the boys summer uniform was Jersey shorts and a white tshirt and trainers. For girls it was a very specific blue and purple floral dress with ruffles and bows, paired with lacy socks and white sandals. Headmistress thought it made us look like fairies. Genuinely.

Bizarrely winter uniform was standard polo shirt and pinafore or trousers. We were fairies only in the summer.

Interesting report, valuable figures on cost and the differences in availability of uniform. That part went beyond reports from parents.

The parents were self selecting - already following or looking up the organisation so at least some interest in gender neutral clothing. Would have been interesting to hear from more girls about their views.

The tone of the report very much seems that uniform should be gender bet

Pressed send too early

more girls about their views.
The tone of the report very much seems that uniform should be gender

And again -
The tone of the report very much seems that uniform should be gender neutral. I’m not saying that is wrong but it felt a bit of a forgone conclusion.

Interesting reading.
I do think uniform creates more problems than it solves.

I didn't say "pencil skirt"

The report did specifically re cycling, I thought? I think it didn't make quite clear enough though there are some types of skirt which are fine, and some which really aren't.

Our secondary school flirted briefly with ‘one style and supplier’ trousers for all — one for boys and one for girls.

But the trousers didn’t make any allowance for different waist to hip ratios between 11 and 16 year olds. They just scaled up in length and width all over. It was bizarre - as if they’d never looked at a set of teenage children in their lives.

IIRC it took about a fortnight of ‘What on earth are you wearing?’ ‘School regulation trousers, miss!’ for the whole idea to be quietly dropped.

DD is another who prefers skirts and tights or skirts and shorts to manage periods. Let’s not force the boys’ preferred option on the girls.

I will book Mark to read later thank you.

There is so much wrong with school uniform particularly fir girls.

Half the stuff hasn't been near a girl in ots thought design or execution.

Shirts are see through

You buy slim fit to avoid the body effect but then cant raise your arms.

If it fits over the boobs it's massive everywhere else particularly on very slim.girls.

The strange obsession with skirt lengths but forgetting that when you have 750 girls all fitting into the same skirt it's just not gonna work.is it.

Boys do not have the extra expense of all the purchases required. ( trying to hunt down nude bras in the right size, tights for kids with eczema, shorts for underneath the skirts , shirts that fit properly etc ) that girls do.

And its still never enough

My secondary school went uniform free for the time that I and my sibling were there; obviously kids started getting bullied for what they wore or didn't.

They settled on standard sweatshirt and tee shirt and jeans which seemed to suit everyone at the time.

Not sure if they allowed skirts and shorts in the summer. There must have been some guidance, but 20 years ago kids just wanted jeans. (it never got very hot there though!) it was a farming area and farmers could get good discounts on clothes in some local farming stores (including Levi's! Got my first pair there.)

My secondary school went uniform free for the time that I and my sibling were there; obviously kids started getting bullied for what they wore or didn't

I do wonder why the bullying isn't dealt with. I'd go nuts if my kid was bullying someone fir their clothes. Bullies bully remove one "cause" and they find another. Yet somehow this excuse is justifiable cause to start pricing people out of attending their schools. And for implementing what is often a sexist, racist ( hair policies ) and disablist set of rules.

I do wonder why the bullying isn't dealt with.

Ideally of course it wouldn't happen. But in reality, a lot of it's probably the sort of low level, confidence sapping snide remarks, subtle digs or looks, which may be difficult to pin down and may sound petty if reported.

And the flip side is that if there's no uniform or dress code, kids whose parents are willing and able to spend a lot on clothes can wear 'status' gear - how do you stop that? It's not bullying, but it can have a similar effect.

"Bullying" was more tribalism and exclusion, the way teens can be quite mean around each other. Hard to identify and tackle. Also relating sometimes to a divide between the more affluent and less well off pupils. Outright bullying was never tolerated at that school.

My DD's always were allowed to wear trousers but chose skirts. The skirt uniform was from the supermarket (not specific supplier) so I generally bought from bhs or M&S once they closed.

I don't accept much of this as it actually quite specific to certain schools.

As long as there is a level playing field, having a girls uniform is fine, and no they didn't wear shorts under. They are at university now, and still wear skirts/dresses out of choice most days

And the flip side is that if there's no uniform or dress code, kids whose parents are willing and able to spend a lot on clothes can wear 'status' gear - how do you stop that? It's not bullying, but it can have a similar effect.

At my school all the kids knew full well who had money and who didn’t despite a uniform. The poorer kids had hand me downs and blazer that were bought far too big so as to last as long as possible. They had cheap school shoes from Asda instead of nice leather ones from an expensive shop. Even cheap shirts are noticeably different from expensive ones. I got stick because I was from the local council estate instead of the nice middle class area the school was in. My mum working in a supermarket instead of an office or not at all was also used to pick on me.

How do other countries cope without uniforms? Are they all overrun with bullying? Or are our schools just totally ineffective at dealing with bullying?

£22 pound skirts? Think yourself lucky! Some private schools put girls in kilts at £70+ (dry clean only)

But you choose to send your kids to a private school and know upfront what the costs are going to be. And if parents don’t like it they can vote with their feet and their wallets. For the rest of us you get what you are given after you express a ‘preference’. Or you get a new headteacher who introduces a costly new uniform just to change something. Changing school isn’t always easy.

My point is the boys still wear standard trousers.

I was considering boys vs girls rather than state vs private

I am hoping it doesn't recommend that all girls should wear trousers. Girls should stop having to conform to male defaults like wearing a tie and trousers.