Proposed new abortion laws

[withgraceinmyheart]

Could someone point me in the direction of some information about the changes to abortion law that are currently being discussed? Ideally something with statistics about how many women will be helped?

Thank you

What country are you in?

England. Apparently it’s an amendment to a crime bill that would decriminalise abortion up to birth. Loads of the profile orgs are posted about it, I can’t find anything anywhere else though?

The only reporting I can find on it that isn't from an anti-choice source is this article from the BBC.

It's apparently an amendment to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill tabled by Dame Diana Johnson and, according to the BBC, would bring English and Welsh law in line with the law recently passed in NI. I'm not aware of the details of the NI law but I didn't think it entirely decriminalised abortion (which is what the anti-choice sites are claiming the amendment would do). I can't find anything on Diana's website or the parliamentary website about what the wording of the amendment is, though.

There appear to be a few feminist amendments being proposed for this bill. Diana appears to be proposing laws on prostitution based on the Nordic Model, Rupa Huq proposing buffer zones for abortion clinics and Sarah Champion proposing the government be required to publish a review on how people on the sexual offences register are changing their names and "other aspects of their identity" and how that should be handled.

Unfortunately it sounds like proposals by individual MPs are highly unlikely to get serious consideration as the bill is so big and has been in process for so long there wont be time to bring in anything that doesn't already have significant support (at least, that's how I read the BBC article).

I hadn't heard about this!

Is it about the law? As in, it's illegal if it's not done in s certain way, 2 docs signing off etc?

So theoretically it can mean prison.

That is out of step, it's a very old law.

I doubt they're changing anything else.

'England. Apparently it’s an amendment to a crime bill that would decriminalise abortion up to birth.'

As above.

Abortion up to birth is legal in certain circs already.

Ok
Google gives me nothing except for a couple of 'pro life' sites freaking out.

One linked to the relevant bill on the gov site.

A search gave no mention of abortion in the document.

Does that help OP?

If it were happening it would be all over the news.

@NiceGerbil

'England. Apparently it’s an amendment to a crime bill that would decriminalise abortion up to birth.'

As above.

Abortion up to birth is legal in certain circs already.

Currently it is criminal to have an abortion but providing certain conditions are met (licensed provider, signed off by appropriate people, done for approved reason etc.), that criminal law will not apply. If it were decriminalized it would mean it would not be criminal to have an abortion in any circumstances.

But I'm not sure if that is the amendment and the BBC article suggests it won't get anywhere anyway.

Found it!

Private members bill.

A non event. Won't go anywhere.

About decriminalising. (Which would be s good thing as it would bring the law in line with accepted practice,,,).

OP the only info is from pro life sites and they're essentially not being truthful. Who are your friends/ who are you following? Might want to have a look at that.

@NiceGerbil

Ok Google gives me nothing except for a couple of 'pro life' sites freaking out.

One linked to the relevant bill on the gov site.

A search gave no mention of abortion in the document.

Does that help OP?

If it were happening it would be all over the news.

It isn't in the bill because it's an amendment being proposed by an MP (Diana Johnson). Like most amendments suggested by MPs it is unlikely to be included (or even considered), sadly.

In short, it's a non event.

It's only got airtime on anti abortion sites with a load of nonsense said.

So how OP is seeing it all over the place is anyone's guess.

I hadn't heard about this so will, as Gerbil has, look into it, but it isn't hitting my networks which covers abortion.

It sounds as if anti-choice orgs have got hold of it and run with it and the pro-choice groups haven't so one it taking it more seriously that the other.

Here's the test of current proposed amendments - the one proposed by Diana Johnson and Caroline Lucas is NC55 (p. 53) - publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-02/0133/amend/police_rm_rep_0701.pdf. IF it's selected for inclusion, it would be discussed and potentially voted on in the HoC session today. In addition to decriminalising women seeking a late abortion and medical professionals who perform one/assist in good faith, it creates a separate, clear offence for anyone forcing or coercing someone to have an abortion, or knowingly or recklessly causing one.

General page on the bill itself with current text is here: bills.parliament.uk/bills/2839

Thanks everyone!

@withgraceinmyheart you may be interested in a case in the High Court this week. Claimants are a mother of a child with Downs Syndrome and a woman with Downs Syndrome. They are trying to limit the abortion rights of women with a foetus with non fatal disabilities to 24 weeks, in line with all other selective abortion. Their case appears to be about disability discrimination and the value put on the lives of children with disabilities. The claimants have just been on Women's Hour.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-56982646

[quote TedImgoingmad]@withgraceinmyheart you may be interested in a case in the High Court this week. Claimants are a mother of a child with Downs Syndrome and a woman with Downs Syndrome. They are trying to limit the abortion rights of women with a foetus with non fatal disabilities to 24 weeks, in line with all other selective abortion. Their case appears to be about disability discrimination and the value put on the lives of children with disabilities. The claimants have just been on Women's Hour.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-56982646[/quote]
There are some very good comments about this underneath the Times article.

Diana Johnson in parliament today:

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/eacc6a97-9c80-4d44-b254-cfa537a2b1c5?in=16:32:23&out=16:33:32

Skipping through today's debate on parliament TV, the only other MPs who have said anything about this particular amendment so far are tories, all but one of whom have said they have been inundated with letters from constituents asking them to oppose the amendment.

There has clearly been a fierce 'pro-life' campaign on this, it was like they were all reading the same statement. They all suddenly had the same talking point - that the amendment would theoretically allow sex selective abortion. How astonishing that this particular argument has suddenly occurred to so many tory MPs at the same time!

They all took the opportunity to say they thought the time limit for abortions should be lowered.

I feel really weird writing this but the honourable exception was Maria Miller who was opposed to the amendment but said some sensible things. I don't want to misquote her so I'll go back and find the clip.

There was also a DUP bloke who spoke in opposition but gave a much more considered opinion than the tories.

The debate is ongoing, this is one amendment in the vaaaast Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill. It may have been voted down by the time I finish writing this. I don't expect it to be voted through.

I don't understand these huge bills that contain everything including the kitchen sink. Abortion law reform is in there alongside stuff about the right to protest, traveller's rights, pet theft and a load of other stuff. There are a lot of amendments that are potentially good for the rights of women and girls but the whole thing is smerged in together with insufficient time to debate any of it properly.

Maria Miller:

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/eacc6a97-9c80-4d44-b254-cfa537a2b1c5?in=18:10:03&out=18:12:07

I wrote to my MP about abortion law in NI a couple of years before it changed.

She replied and said she understood my view. But that in general it would be dangerous to open up a wide discussion on law changes as it risks going the other way.

It made sense at the time! And I think it's a good point.

Putting a proposed change in abortion law as a divisive topic would mean all sorts of suggestions.

MPs usually get a free vote on this I think.

It could backfire horribly.