Football Privilege

[Elodiee]

Why, when there is a football tournament do some men assume it their ultimate right to opt out of family life to attend all of these football games with their friends in pubs or other places? As if it's not even negotiable?

I am sick of it.
Does it not occur to these men that some women actually enjoy football too and want some time away from the children to watch it? Or even, God forbid, that the woman and children may wish to watch it together as a family?

I overheard a conversation in the street today whereby a group of men were discussing the fact that one of the men in the group weren't watching it with them at the pub because he had to look after his kids. This is because his wife was covering a shift at work which she "should have said no to" apparently, according to these men. They called it "pathetic" that this father had to stay at home and watch the England game with his kids.
Like, What?

I was thinking of the 'Seaburn Casuals' who were pretty high profile at the time

DH hates football, so luckily there's no chance of this.
However, if there was an event he loved, which only happened every 2 years, I wouldn't mind at all.
I'm sure he would reciprocate.
The example in the OP is just a bunch of sexist blokes though.
I know plenty of couples who watch football together.

'I overheard a conversation in the street...'

'Does it not occur to these men that some women actually enjoy football too and want some time away from the children to watch it? Or even, God forbid, that the woman and children may wish to watch it together as a family?'*

So, OP, now that you have been told by other posters that football supporters are indeed a cross-section of society, and that women watch the football together, or with their families, or go to the pub to watch it without their partner, have you reconsidered your position? I'm often curious about these outrage posts, and whether the subsequent sharing of alternative views changes anything. I'm not being snidey, I'd genuinely like to know. The whole Karen meme is based upon an assumption of privilege from a certain section of society based on observed, overheard behaviours. Is this the same?

[quote FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]@TheRosesOfSuccess it's probably the rose tinted glasses of childhood

We always went to Leeds games in the late 80's, but did stop mid-90's because my dad said the violence began to escalate and it wasn't a place for children. But I don't recall anyone making monkey noises at black players, shouting abuse at players and the referee, looking for reasons why everything was unfair. We applauded when the other team scored, I'm not sure that kind of respect is in football these days. It seems to really be something of a pissing contest.[/quote]
Definitely rose tinted glasses of childhood. Leeds fans (NALFWLT) were absolute bastards in the 80s, up there with Chelsea, Millwall, West Ham and Birmingham in terms of teams you wanted to avoid crossing paths with.

Definitely rose tinted glasses of childhood. Leeds fans (NALFWLT) were absolute bastards in the 80s, up there with Chelsea, Millwall, West Ham and Birmingham in terms of teams you wanted to avoid crossing paths with.

Very true. I remember my Dad and I being chased out of the Old Den. I would have been a teenager at that time and my Mum would have had a fit if she'd have known what it was like! At some away games we would sit in with the home supporters as my Dad figured it was safer than being marked out as away supporters. Only trouble was that meant not celebrating any goals and giving the game away. Which was of course impossible

Yes this is a husband problem, not a football problem. And I doubt there are many men who do this if they are usually committed, hands-on fathers and husbands who share the load in the house and with the children. I'd be totally happy for dh to go to the pub multiple times and watch the football with friends, because he's a hard-working husband who spends pretty much all his free time hanging out with us and doing useful stuff!

I think there's a bit of interaction between selfishness and a society that supports it tbh. My OH and I had a bit of a disagreement about the football on Friday and he was like "but you knew it was the Euros" and I'm like, yeah, it's the Euros and then next year it's the World Cup, when is the 50 hour long sports event aimed at women, televised in full with before and after match commentary, covered on the news etc? There isn't one because what women have the time or money for that? Not very many.

So, OP, now that you have been told by other posters that football supporters are indeed a cross-section of society, and that women watch the football together, or with their families, or go to the pub to watch it without their partner, have you reconsidered your position?

So, if football supporters are a diverse cross section of men and women, why are the crowds in pub and home overwhelmingly male? That would just lend support to the OP’s theory that women fans are relegated (!) to home life bcs childcare.

The slew of Not my DH posts is probably down to the very modern desire to individualise a collective problem.

I think it’s fine that way more men than women like football. It is after all a game played by male players. But it’s sad that there’s no equivalent for women that is deemed important enough to breach COVID rules for.

The Karen thing is about white women calling the police on innocent black people. Unless you think Mumsnet is like the police I don’t think it’s anywhere near the same.

@Anycrispsleft

I think there's a bit of interaction between selfishness and a society that supports it tbh. My OH and I had a bit of a disagreement about the football on Friday and he was like "but you knew it was the Euros" and I'm like, yeah, it's the Euros and then next year it's the World Cup, when is the 50 hour long sports event aimed at women, televised in full with before and after match commentary, covered on the news etc? There isn't one because what women have the time or money for that? Not very many.

Many women I know love tennis. Wimbledon is on every year for 2 weeks, on TV every day, often on 2 channels, and is televised from early afternoon until mid/late evening.

Wimbledon is great but it’s aimed at both sexes because both sexes play.

I can’t imagine anything that only women play that men will also watch and admire. Except perhaps childbirth and lesbian porn

Tennis is an interesting one isn't it, yes it's played by both sexes, but thinking about it I don't know any men who watch it, and plenty of women who do. Is that unusual?

Oh and your last paragraph is depressingly true.

I know what you mean. Luckily, my dp prefers to watch it at home and actually wants us, his family, to care as much as he does. None of us do.

I was actually quite impressed when I saw my sil post on social media that her husband had come home from a football bbq at his mates as one of his daughters wanted to watch the match with him. Probably rare, I suppose? My dp would LOVE it if our son wanted to watch the football with him, but the boy just gives zero shits about football

While my dp doesn't disappear off for TV games, he does manage a men's team and is MIA for most Saturdays of the year, and that drives me mad. He even went on our sons 10th birthday. Even his mates gave the look. But the boy was fine. Had some mates and his nana over so barely noticed he wasn't there. And he was back in time for takeaway and cake.

I've gone off on a tangent.

People get cross about weddings interrupting their darling football

I get cross about darling weddings interrupting entire weekends, inc football and horseracing! Especially given the divorce rate, meaning there's a 50/50ish chance you've wasted your time and money anyway.

Like it or not football is the national sport. It gets the highest in-person participation and viewing figures. It can be played by kids without special equipment and supervision.

If you commit to spending your life with someone they come as a package, which includes consuming hobbies. My bloke spends a lot of his spare time going to beer festivals. Every other Saturday is based around my riding lessons. Several days earlier this year were based around my obsessively watching Red Button coverage of the figure skating championships. I think it would be boring going out with someone who had no passions or interests.

when is the 50 hour long sports event aimed at women, televised in full with before and after match commentary, covered on the news etc?

Not sporting, but there are plenty of things either aimed at women or mostly consumed by women.
They may not all involve days away, but so many non-sport TV shows, women are the primary audience, including soap operas, dancing and singing talent shows, etc.
My father had to leave the room when Coronation Street was on lest he disturb it for my mother.
As said above, football is such an outlier because it's the national sport.

@TheRosesOfSuccess

Tennis is an interesting one isn't it, yes it's played by both sexes, but thinking about it I don't know any men who watch it, and plenty of women who do. Is that unusual?

My son loves watching tennis and has even been to a tournament (not wimbledon).He likes football as well.

@lop124

If you’re insinuating that it’s only working class men who behave like this, I’d hazard an educated guess that you’d be sorely mistaken. Your anecdotal sample of 1 is not evidence of this.

Sexism and misogyny is embedded across all social strata of society and certainly isn’t the preserve of the working classes.

England are through to the final. Brace yourself for things getting crazy.

Perhaps it is cultural and tribal English exceptionalism entitlement? Having a hobby especially sport is good if active playing healthy competing participant. However using this to neglect others or as a form of exclusive not inclusive behaviour or escapism does not make it right though. If it is joyful for one it may be joyful for others too and an opportunity to share the joy. Football is a sport that commonly unites strangers predominantly men and boys over their shared support for “their” team.

The big match is fifty fifty winnable as England are seemingly playing better with each challenge but as much as it is possible to win - if both teams perform to their peak I suspect it could fall to penalties and we all know the score with that!

For England’s sake I hope they/we win as otherwise many will be disappointed about a game of football as if it is the be and end all. Apparently public bank holiday is considered to celebrate a victory but what happens if Italy becomes Euro 2020 champions? A national day of sadness? It’s just a game but good luck to those so invested and may the best team win fairly on the day. Fair play in this sport is so unreliable and not guaranteed that VAR replay technology is required to separate disputes of general untrustworthiness where a part of the game is to fool the opponent and referee. Not suggesting it is a game of cheats but they are very highly rewarded as it is such big business to the detriment of many other sports which are comparatively neglected and unsupported and hence lack of investment as not a big global marketing opportunity. On that note drink naturally healthy water not chemical carbonated sweet chemical liquid. And yes come on England!

I think I might be a rare experience…
Growing up in a football (& rugby) loving family all are included in watching (kids in all) growing up with the family together whether at the local pub or all around Nans house.
My husband isn’t a fan (hates football) hes bit fussed where I go to watch it. I choose to stay home or go back to family homes to watch it all together (though he usually sits with ear phones in watching his phone) It has meant that both my daughters have a love of sport in general - whether that be football/rugby / tennis etc! As it’s something we watch together. Though daughter is off with her mates to watch it on Sunday.
My daughter is going to silverstone next weekend with her Dad as she loves F1 - best birthday present we could have got her! We couldn’t afford for all of us to go but I know my husband is more excited for F1 - I don’t see it as a privilege that he gets to go.

I've watched all the England game in the pub with my partner and his mates if that helps, but you're right, when the children were little, I had to watch it at home.

Hooliganism declined in the 1990s in part because of acid house and drugs.

To answer the original thread, it is a selfish man issue, and I expect had England not been in this tournament many of the men concerned would have found other excuses. As for women's interest in men's football, I recall Delia Smith observing that 1 in 6 supporters are women.

This is why I loathe football.
I actually think that the current team seem like a nice bunch of young men in general and don’t seem to be in the papers like previous teams and some of them (ie Rashford) are pretty inspirational
However, I hate the thuggish toxic masculinity that seems to accompany the game. I went to a few local games as a family but despite us being in the Family some some of the behaviour from the crowd was pretty awful and put me off going again.
Domestic violence rates shoot up when a National game is on too.
I am sure there are a lot of nice football fans in England too but the ones who are visible seem awful.

@newnortherner111

Hooliganism declined in the 1990s in part because of acid house and drugs.

To answer the original thread, it is a selfish man issue, and I expect had England not been in this tournament many of the men concerned would have found other excuses. As for women's interest in men's football, I recall Delia Smith observing that 1 in 6 supporters are women.

I think the decline in hooliganism was to do with a number of factors, but not really acid house or the rave scene. Hillsborough, followed by the Taylor report was what really changed things. When the report's recommendations were implemented, football changed fundamentally.

Also football is much more 'corporate' than it used to be, and way more expensive, both of which have impacted on the make up of attendees.

Patriarchy. These same men tend to be the types who hate female fans and think we belong in the kitchen.

I don't mind admitting I'm dreading the consequences for women here if England lose.