Robyn Williams, Black police superintendent, has won her employment tribunal

[dianebrewster]

Very pleased to hear this - there's so much about this case that is worrying. A senior, decorated, black woman in the Met received a child abuse video in a WhatsApp group. She says she never opened it (I have WhatsApp groups like that, where I don't open random videos). The trial jury didn't believe her (I do) and she was convicted. The Met fired her.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/16/black-met-police-chief-wins-her-job-back-after-tribunal-says-sacking-was-unfair

Given how many slaps on the wrist we see given out to white males who actively seek out child abuse online this case just screams misogyny and racism to me.

Wow, that is awful. It was probably sent maliciously. Glad she was reinstated, but what a draining, depressing thing to go through.

Yes I've been following this from the beginning, the treatment of this impressive woman stank to high heaven, institutional racism written all over it.

It was probably sent maliciously.

Umm ... not so much. it was sent to her by her own sister (who I believe was outraged at the videos contents)

Ms Black never opened the video ... but ended up in a disciplinary hearing anyway.
(And, somewhat amazingly, lost her job)

I'd say 'All's well that ends well' but cant help but think that whoever set her up (and I do think she was set up) will be ready and waiting for her if she returns to her old job.

Good that she won the Tribunal tho'

She should have reported it.
I don't know how it got to her employers but she absolutely should have reported it. It's basic for someone in her position.
I don't think she should have lost her job but she made a huge error of judgement to protect her sister. That is very serious for a police superintendent. They must be able to be trusted to maintain integrity under any circumstances.

Look at those glowing comments about her from the Grenfell community - this is a highly influential, trusted Black woman who empowers and protects marginalised communities, she is a threat to the establishment so she must be personally and professionally thwarted.

I've being following this too. I know she should have reported her sister for distribution of the video but I can understand why she didn't. Even as a decorated police officer she wasn't treated fairly, her sister stood no chance. I can't believe she was found guilty either.

That's the best news I've heard all week. It was an utter disgrace that she was convicted of this alleged crime and lost her job. Just showed how utterly racist the police really are! As the previous poster says, its stank to high heaven of institutional racism. It was also disgraceful that her sister was also convicted of sending the videos her intention was obviously to get someone to take legal action . It was utterly stupid of her but there was no criminal intent! Typical over policing of black people.

This is one of those cases that deserves learning the details of before deciding on the rights and wrongs. I'm still in two minds about what I think ought to have been the outcome.

@PoliceDogWoof

Wow, that is awful. It was probably sent maliciously. Glad she was reinstated, but what a draining, depressing thing to go through.

Her sister sent it.

The case started in February 2018 after Williams was sent a WhatsApp message by her sister containing a video of a young girl being abused. The sister was outraged and wanted the culprit hunted down by police

I find it completely implausible that having then spent almost a day with her sister that her sister didn't mention it to her.

how on EARTH did this ever get to court in the first place?

@FindTheTruth

how on EARTH did this ever get to court in the first place?

That’s what I’m curious of as well.

It went to court because possession of indecent images is a strict liability offence meaning that it would have required an intervention by the Crown Prosecution Service to decide it wasn't in the public interest to proceed with a prosecution. Counting against that is that apparently she would have been aware of the nature of the video but chose not to do anything about it.

I’m so pleased she’s won this tribunal, I remember the case from a few years ago.

This is one of those cases that deserves learning the details of before deciding on the rights and wrongs. I'm still in two minds about what I think ought to have been the outcome.

This

It went to court because possession of indecent images is a strict liability offence

So what is the correct thing to do when sent such an image, so you are now possessing one?

Report it and face going through this sort of ordeal? Or delete it and try to destroy all evidence and hope the situation goes away? Is it safe to even report the sender?

I do find the concept of "strict liability" rather skirting the edges of Kafka/Lewis Carroll territory. It's basically a "faceless bureaucracy could go nuts" warning.

I find it quite odd her sister shared it in a group chat with 17 other people in it. Odd that she didn’t just send it to her police officer sister, if she “wanted the culprit hunted down by police”.
I’d also report the video myself if someone sent it in a group chat 🤷🏼‍♀️

Report it and face going through this sort of ordeal? Or delete it and try to destroy all evidence and hope the situation goes away? Is it safe to even report the sender?

You report it in the hope that this would then mean that it would not be in the public interest to prosecute you. I don't know how this applied to the others who received the video. Some were prosecuted, and some not.

So if someone sent me such a video I could be prosecuted? Under what law?

It's quite straightforward you report the video immediately. The sister was an idiot for sending it on WhatsApp absolutely nuts. No sympathy really for her its hardly misogyny if both the culprits are females they got themselves in this situation by distributing it seems child abuse images. She had been tried by a jury and convicted so you belief is out of kilter with the very people who have heard all the evidence in court and
She had previously lost an attempt to overturn her criminal conviction at the court of appeal.
So what is the issue then? Ok she got her job back but she still had a final written warning. I know this is Mumsnet where virtually everything is the fault of misogyny but making this a feminist issue still takes the biscuit.

Agree - this was a disgrace. Glad she won.

@nauticant

This is one of those cases that deserves learning the details of before deciding on the rights and wrongs. I'm still in two minds about what I think ought to have been the outcome.

so you think she should have lost her job and got convicted for not opening a whatsapp?!?

You report the material immediately to the police and the Internet Watch Foundation.

The sister very clearly possessed and distributed it. It is unbelievable that the 2 sisters did not discuss it.

See this Soontobe60:

www.jmw.co.uk/services-for-you/criminal-defence/blog/possessing-indecent-images-children-can-instant-messaging-make-someone-criminal

The law isn't straightforward and the circumstances of Robyn Williams' case aren't straightforward.

@Soontobe60

So if someone sent me such a video I could be prosecuted? Under what law?

No she is a police office who witnessed a crime. She needs to report it. You can delete it because the police have different professional standards. Case law below

The case of R v Porter [2006] 1 WLR 2633 supports the view that, in normal circumstances, deleting images held on a computer is sufficient to divest oneself of possession of them.

This forum is always banging on about safeguarding. Do you, general you, think her sister's actions in distributing the video to 17 other people met even the tiniest requirement of safeguarding? If that had been your child in the video would you be rushing to defend the sister?

And Williams herself- knowing that her sister had done this chose to ignore it to protect her sister? How does that meet "safeguarding"?