Wayne Couzens pleads guilty to rape and kidnap of Sarah Everard, but not her murder

[Cwenthryth]

Sarah Everard: Wayne Couzens admits rape and kidnap www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57399170

He “accepts responsibility” for her death but didn’t enter a plea for the murder charge.

can he do that? not enter a plea? if he accepts responsibility doesn't that mean manslaughter at least?

he's not going to admit to murder until the full medical reports are out.

Hmmm, the bbc report is worded slightly differently to the sky news report which states:

‘He also accepted responsibility for the killing of Ms Everard, but no plea was entered, pending medical reports ahead of another hearing on 9 July.’

Which makes it sound like he can’t enter a plea until the medical reports are aired at a further hearing. Which doesn’t mean he will of course.

The court heard that he had accepted responsibility for the killing but medical reports were awaited.

Really unclear if those medical reports are on Sarah, or on her killer (I presume we can call him that now, seeing as he had admitted that?).

I think the evidence against him must be overwhelming, he knows he can’t be found innocent, so he’s going to try and get the lowest sentence possible by minimising the charges and entering guilty pleas. At least this may save her family from having to go through a lengthy trial? Or will the judge still hear lots of evidence publicly to decide on a sentence.

I wonder if “accepts responsibility” for her murder is because he is hoping it will be a manslaughter charge rather than murder?

I would hope for the family’s sake there isn’t any public hearing of the events.

Sorry, evidence

So he accepts the fact he raped and kidnapped her.

But is going to say he caused her death but he didn't intend to kill her, eg it was an accident?

That poor young woman. What she must have gone through

The post mortem confirmed cause of death was strangulation. The Guardian states that medical report is a psychiatric report. This would affect him in terms of possible diminished responsibility which would reduce charge to manslaughter.

Sorry, the PM said cause of death was compression of the neck.
The Guardian article www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/08/pc-wayne-couzens-pleads-guilty-to-kidnap-and-of-sarah-everard

@UhtredRagnarson

I wonder if “accepts responsibility” for her murder is because he is hoping it will be a manslaughter charge rather than murder?

I was thinking the same thing. He will be hoping there isn't enough evidence for a murder charge.

Don't probationary police men and women have to go through some sort of psychological testing? How on earth did he pass?

@Stanleysaysyes

Don't probationary police men and women have to go through some sort of psychological testing? How on earth did he pass?

This - doesn't matter what charge is entered (sounds like he's trying to get manslaughter on a technicality), a serving police officer has pleaded guilty to kidnapping, raping and ending the life of a young girl.

How are we supposed to trust male police officers if someone like this makes it through their extensive checks?

I feel sick.

How are we supposed to trust male police officers if someone like this makes it through their extensive checks?
I’m going to go out on a limb here and predict that ‘blah blah lessons will be learnt blah blah’

I recently saw a list of all the police officers jailed or sacked for criminal offenses, I think in the past couple of years.
It was sickening, a lot of them were for sexual offenses and the outcomes for them next to nothing! That's before we even talk about how many were on the list.
I do not trust the police at all after seeing that.

Mariemare Sarah Everard was 33 years old, a woman, not a 'young girl'. Why infantalise women?
Not that that should have any bearing on the case, a human life was ended.

Assume he's hoping the psychiatric reports will enable him to reduce the charge to manslaughter on the ground of diminished responsibility

@Lettera

Assume he's hoping the psychiatric reports will enable him to reduce the charge to manslaughter on the ground of diminished responsibility

Yes this is what I’m assuming too.

Do the extensive tests examine subconscious bias? I bet they don't because they wouldn't be able to hire. There are good psychoticism tests that are very hard to fake as well. You'd probably need drugs to do it. Not all psychological testing is a list of questions.

@UhtredRagnarson

I wonder if “accepts responsibility” for her murder is because he is hoping it will be a manslaughter charge rather than murder?

Yes it will be.

I’m so fucking sick of these murdering rapists playing this “manslaughter” game. Surely he realises the gig’s up now, and he will do life regardless? So many cases like this in which the offender admits rape, kidnap and/or assault but then they always claim the death was inadvertent or unpremeditated. It’s ridiculous and cruel.

I do wonder how much pressure the CPS feel to accept a manslaughter plea and spare the family a full trial with all the details. He should be the one feeling that pressure.

Is this the natural evolution of the “sex game gone wrong” defence (and it’s cousin “domestic violence gone wrong”) - “kidnap and rape gone wrong”?

😐

His mental state will be being assessed by psychiatrists. Question is was he able to form intent? Depending on findings the crown will decide how to charge him - murder or manslaughter. The reports will also affect whether the crown accept and guilty plea to manslaughter or push for a trial on murder.
Charging standard they’ll be applying - - is there a realistic prospect of securing a conviction. There might not be on murder of reports indicate diminished responsibility.

How are we supposed to trust male police officers if someone like this makes it through their extensive checks?

I don’t know about anyone else, but that ship sailed awhile ago for me. When women are fined for asking for protection from the stalkers who eventually kill them, when less than 5% of rapes are prosecuted making rape pretty much legal, and when undercover police officers get to trick women into sex as part of their jobs, I just don’t see how trust is part of the equation.

@Cwenthryth

Is this the natural evolution of the “sex game gone wrong” defence (and it’s cousin “domestic violence gone wrong”) - “kidnap and rape gone wrong”?

😐

Manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility is different to manslaughter on the grounds of "it was an accident". Perhaps we need the US system where there are two degrees of murder and two types of manslaughter.

Either way, manslaughter can still attract a life sentence.

Manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility is different to manslaughter on the grounds of "it was an accident".
Yes, but is “I only meant to rape her and just choke her a little bit like they do in porn, I just happened to choked her to death but I didn’t mean to” an accident?