a drug addict has just moved in with me help...

[FranklyIDontGiveAMam]

a VERY regular but have namechanged.

A relative has moved in (300 miles away from his friends and influences) and is attempting to withdraw from heroine, following the NHS 3 year programme in 10 days.

We've had the violence (towards things, not me) and the shouting, but now we are onto severe stomach cramps, talking nonsense and asking every 5 minutes what the time is. Next dose of meth due at midnight.

I have dragged him to a sympathetic phamacist who has sold him some pills to relax his stomach, but obviously can't give him anything else without a prescription.

Can anyone offer any suggestions of anything else either I or he can do to help?

[FranklyIDontGiveAMam]

i'm proud that i managed to get him to confide in the pharmacist

[FranklyIDontGiveAMam]

ilovemydog i don't think he is taking vitamins. he's not eating really, but he has some homemade cake and is drinking fruit juice. i'll see if he'll take some vitamins, but tbh they will probably be more use over the next few weeks rather than the next few days

[Snorbs]

The reason he's refusing any proper care is that he wants to make out that he's been clean for a lot longer than he has been, yes? And that's so he can get his driving license back when, if they knew that he's only recently got clean, he wouldn't get it back?

If that's the case, that's not a "good reason" for him to refuse proper care. That's a crap, selfish, deceptive and quite possibly unlawful reason.

Moreover, in colluding with him to avoid proper medical care (and so avoid his deception being recognised) means that you are enabling an addict to avoid the reasonable consequences of his choices. Enabling an addict to avoid the consequences of their choices is the most effective way to encourage that addiction to continue.

Give him the phone number of the local branch of Narcotics Anonymous and phone the guy an ambulance. That's the responsible thing to do. Colluding in someone pulling the wool over the eyes of the DVLA etc to get his license back when he doesn't deserve it is doing no-one any favours.

[FranklyIDontGiveAMam]

there are a number of reasons that he has given me.

he wants to do it now, he wants to do it quickly.

he doesn't want to be addicted to methadone which is worse than heroine, and would prolong his inability to get a driving license and therefore work

he needs to work in order to have a life after drugs

if he doesn't have a life after drugs then he may as well keep taking them, and doesn't believe he will have the resources to enable him to stay off them

your argument is logical, but so is his. whilst he is so motivated i would rather go with his. if it fails, I'll go with yours.

[PinkTulips]

i'm saddened by the amount of people who would turn their back on family in this situation. some people are incapable of seeking professional help, does that mean they should be doomed to remain junkies forever because no one should 'endanger' themselves by giving them a safe place to go through this?

the medical withdrawel method works for some.... for most it doesn't, it replaces one addiction with another, or in many cases tops up their current addiction with free drugs. it takes a long time which makes it unworkable for the type of personality who needs to be able to see instant progress.

frank, i don't have any practical advice about opiate withdrawel... oddly enough i've witnessed withdrawel from most other drugs except opiates and none of them are pleasant.

i'm not sure how wise his gym junkie plan is, his body will still be run down from the years of addiction, he needs to recover first... is there anyway you could suggest he fixate on something slightly less physical until his body is healed? either way, ilovemydog makes a good point about the vitamins.

good luck to him, and you have my utmost admiration for doing this for/with him. i sincerely hope it works out.

[ilovemydogandMrObama]

well, at least he is eating. This is a good thing. Sugar intake is probably the most important. And fluids. Lots of water. Small and frequent. If you can get Diorlyte this would help replace the salts in his system.

Sounds as if you've hit rock bottom which is a good thing. It can only get better.

May I say that he won't suddenly get back to normal. It will be a gradual process, so perhaps you may wish to think about an 'exit' strategy?

[Snorbs]

Shame he wasn't so "motivated" when it meant he could've got his license back legitimately. Instead, he's got you helping him to get it back illegitimately.

He'll stay clean if he wants to, regardless of whether he's got a driving license or not, or a job or not.

To be honest, he doesn't sound like a man who's serious about cleaning up for good; he sounds like a man who's doing the absolute bare minimum, for the shortest possible time, so he gets his license back. I bet you a tenner he's back on drugs within three months of having his license returned.

[jeminthecity]

The OP is asking for support not judgement- it's pretty obvious she knows it's not an ideal situation, this is to to those that just post with opinions.

Sorry, no help to offer, just think you are trying to do what you think is right, and none of us live in an ideal world.
You seem to be aware of all the pitfalls.
Wish I had family support when I was in trouble, not even for drink or drugs, just emotional stuff. He's lucky to have you.

Any support services you yourself could plug into?

[jeminthecity]

[FranklyIDontGiveAMam]

ilovemydog and snorbs for that matter, he has been an addict for 16 years - i don't expect this to be the end of it, just the end of this bit.

the strategy is to finish the 10 day programme, go and live with his mum for 5 days, then come on holiday with us all for a week abroad, come back to his mums, get a job (which i believe he will/can - he's not fussy and he's got very practised convincing gift of the gab as you would imagine he would have by now)

the problem snorbs is that the license and the ending drugs thing needs to come at the same time. he's not been able to give pu because it is difficult for him to move on without transport (which might not be such an issue since he has moved, - but i KNOW has been stopping him from giving up before, as he wasn't able to get his head round it)

'He'll stay clean if he wants to, regardless of whether he's got a driving license or not, or a job or not.' this isn't really true, it is like saying you'll lose weight if you want to despite having nothing in the cupboard but cake.

eventually he'll have to learn how to keep off the drugs when things go wrong in his life of course, but for now it is helping his motivation.

thanks ilovemydog, for the tips on hydration etc.

[FranklyIDontGiveAMam]

thanks jem

you're right, - it isnt ideal. hardly a barrel of laughs. i wouldn't pretend to have all the answers but he seems to have quite a few and from the web pages linked in this thread he is talking some sense plus i am very relieved indeed to say that i think the worst is over

and no, whilst i do defend his motives to some extent i don't condone his behaviour or suggest that this is the way to go about withdrawing

[Snorbs]

A drug addict will come up with bazillions of reasons why they can't give up at that particular time. "I don't have a job", "I live in the wrong place", "I don't have a driving license" blah blah blah. It's all self-justifying bullshit. Or, to look at it another way, it's the addiction talking. Either way it's not the truth.

Damn few long-term drug addicts give up at the point that their life takes an upswing, such as regaining a driving license through bogus means. The vast majority give up when they can no longer face it getting any worse.

If you really want to help him, and he's adamant that he won't do anything official because he wants to lie his way into regaining his license (and you are willing to be complicit in that), at least point him in the direction of Narcotics Anonymous. Someone who's evaded the real world for 16 years in favour of opiate-induced oblivion is going to need at least some expert help.

[FranklyIDontGiveAMam]

Thank you snorbs. He won't go to NA because he has moved away from an area where he knew where to get stuff and feels that he doesn't want to get to know other people with the same problem and who have 'contacts'.

I'm not denying he needs help, but he has had help before, a few different councellors. he always manages to convince them there is no problem. he even managed to convince one that he had never taken a drug in his life and it was all a big misunderstanding. he managed to get a probation officer to agree that he didn't have to do community service appointed by the courts. he's very very clever when he needs to be (although tbh i reckon it is more that the professionals he was dealing with were particularly stupid).

hes not regaining his license. he's never had one.

[ilovemydogandMrObama]

Yes, he has been dishonest in the past. But he is being honest about his addiction and coming off heroin which is a big deal. Good for him.

Who knows if he will go back onto it... The important thing is that he has reasons for getting clean. Do the reasons matter? I don't think so.

[Snorbs]

So he's been to counselling but lied his way through it, is now preparing to lie his way into gaining a driving license (I didn't realise that he never had a license before he was banned - that's quite a trick), he won't get any official help because that would weaken his lies, and he won't even access anonymous help for spectacularly weak reasons.

Instead, he's following his own short-term detox programme that has nothing to offer in terms of long-term changes of lifestyle other than a house move. (That's what AA and NA call a "geographical cure" - move house and hope you leave all your addiction problems behind. It doesn't work.) And he's brought illegal drugs into your home - methadone is a Class A drug; if he doesn't have a prescription, he shouldn't have it. More importantly, you're complicit in that offence as it's under your roof.

Yet, despite you knowing that he's a damned good and very well-practised liar, you're sure that he's telling you the truth when he tells you all about his special commitment and motivation this time.

I don't think there's anything more I can usefully add to this. I hope your choices in this work out well for you and him.

[ilovemydogandMrObama]

Snorbs, I see your point, and you're right, but what's the alternative? It seems to me that the choice is that the OP's relative either comes off heroin with her help or not at all.

He does sound manipulative, but sounds as if the OP is fully aware of all his traits, and is still willing to help him.

[FAQinglovely]

I'm pretty sure you can be banned from driving if you're caught driving without a licence - so not much of a trick

[solidgoldshaggingbunnies]

I think the OP is doing a brave and well-meaning thing but one which may well not work. Frankly, use the websites you have been told about to make sure you have as much information as possiblem, and please be clear in your own mind where the line is. For your own sake. Letting him beat you up or steal from you or risk a criminal record by being sent out to buy him illegal things - you don't have to do this. YOU matter. It's very very unlikely that he ever did something for you that means you owe him your whole life. If it gets too much for you, then that doesn;t mean you have failed or are a bad person or 'selfish' or 'unkind' or 'taking away his last chance' - it means that YOU matter just as much as he does, and he is not entitled to mistreat you or damage your life because he won't get professional help.

[flightoftheeasterbunyip]

Totally with Snorbs on every single point.

By FranklyIDontGiveAMam on Sat 18-Apr-09 22:17:41
i'm proud that i managed to get him to confide in the pharmacist

Frankly - can you not see how mixed up this is? It's not about YOU. He's doing a shortcut - there is a very good reason this kind of withdrawal is not recognised as a great way to go by the professionals. Basically being an unemployable methadone addict for three years is nothing bad, if it means getting over heroin properly - rather than doing it in such a deluded manner as he is - he's done it this way before, right? And oh, it didn't hold.

How is he hoping to get a license straight away if he never had one? I don't understand. It took me at least 9 months with good driving lessons to get my license...it's even harder these days. or is he planning to drive without a license - in which case why does it matter about the GP knowing, as he won't be applying for one?

Sorry I am really losing any sense of this being reasonable - not that I had much to start with.

I don't believe in what you are doing, and to 'support' you in it would be disingenuous and wrong. I have no idea why you think it is a good idea, and I hope you realise this before you get shafted or something else.

Sorry I can't offer meaningless 'support'. You sound right out of your depth.

[flightoftheeasterbunyip]

What I mean is someone wanting to withdraw from anything, needs to do it themselves - not because someone else 'gets them to' - not even one small part of it should come from you. He needs to take responsibility completely and he isn't doing - he's getting you to, so in future he can blame you for it not working, because you accepted the role.

Do you understand?

[FAQinglovely]

well given that the relative is only going to be with the OP for a relatively short period (10 days, then a weeks holiday with her) - then will be at his mum's house

As has already been said the hardest part is staying off - and that will be from his mothers house - not the OP's.

[pavlovthepregnantcat]

WOW, very very brave to do cold turkey in a setting that has no medical support. This is usually done in a rehab clinic, with other drugs on hand that can be prescribed to get through particular bad patches. Even in rehab it is not done in 10 days.

He needs fluid mainly. And nothing else will do much without medical intervention. He is going to be in a LOT of discomfort, he might insist/beg/threaten you to get heroin for him, and he appear like he will die from the pain. He WONT DIE.

But it won't necessarily mean he will be free from this drug forever. Drug addiction is as much about mental state of mind that physical presence of a substance. He will have to deal with emotional feelings, which have been blocked by heroin. This can be harder than physical pain, especially if he has emotional pain he has been masking.

[pavlovthepregnantcat]

FAQ it is illegal to drive without a licence as you will have no insurance, you will be banned and will get a criminal conviction for it too.

[pavlovthepregnantcat]

Has he ever tried to come off heroin before? It takes on average 7 serious attempts to quit heroin before it is successful.

[flightoftheeasterbunyip]

Exactly Pavlov - there's a reason why it takes so long to do it 'properly' because it's about a change in mindset and that's very deep. It's almost like saying a person can change from being a violent, abusive husband by going cold turkey. It doesn't work that way, usually.

Also, it's likely something will have to be sacrificed if he really wants to stop.

A relative of mine gave up alcohol after being a heavy drinker. Yes stopping the drinking was hard, but he wanted to do it finally, and he was prepared to sacrifice a little bit of his old personality to do so - he lost a lot of his 'spark', his extremities of feeling...he became slightly 'flat' but that was the price he paid, and it meant he was no longer a threat to anyone.

It's not simple. There's a reason he's been taking it and it's this what wants sorting out, iyswim. He's just sticking a plaster on top without that deep and life changing counselling etc that takes such a long time. Which to me indicates he's in denial about his need for something to cover his inner pain, and unwilling to face whateer he's trying to cover up using the heroin.

If he can't face that, he's probably not strong enough to stay off it.

I really hope i'm wrong though.