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Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have medical concerns, please seek medical attention.

Mental health

a drug addict has just moved in with me help...

167 replies

FranklyIDontGiveAMam · 17/04/2009 18:28

a VERY regular but have namechanged.

A relative has moved in (300 miles away from his friends and influences) and is attempting to withdraw from heroine, following the NHS 3 year programme in 10 days.

We've had the violence (towards things, not me) and the shouting, but now we are onto severe stomach cramps, talking nonsense and asking every 5 minutes what the time is. Next dose of meth due at midnight.

I have dragged him to a sympathetic phamacist who has sold him some pills to relax his stomach, but obviously can't give him anything else without a prescription.

Can anyone offer any suggestions of anything else either I or he can do to help?

OP posts:

Report

kylesmyloveheart · 24/04/2009 21:59

have been following your story with interest - how is he doing now?

best wishes to you both.

lou33 · 20/04/2009 16:04

i spoke to a recovering heroin addict today and asked her about this situation

she said please please get support and do it via a gp or rehab/counselling centre, it will be too hard for either of you without

FelineFine · 20/04/2009 11:32

What you're doing is great.

Yes, it might be a few months and he will re-use but he might not, you may have saved his life.

In saying that I mean saved him from the rest of his life being shitty, as it no doubt has been since he started using.

Sometimes it takes only 1 person to make so much difference. It can be done. Sadly users do often fall back into bad patterns. Not all of them though.

It's a difficult subject to talk about, especially if you have no experience of what living with drug addict can be like and even then it's difficult.

FranklyIDontGiveAMam · 19/04/2009 22:46

Thankyou pavolv, that is really helpful. I'm gathering potential support info for him to access after we get back from holiday. no idea whether he'll use it but handing over the info will be like me signing him off.

solid, I don't think so. I don't feel special. if anything i'm a bit irritated that hes here tbh, and even though we're through the worst I'm counting down the days til hes gone. to say it is disruptive is putting it very very mildly.

i don't agree that the detox is illmanaged though. i mean i DID before we started, but seeing with my own eyes the plan and him and the determination i'm starting to feel it was right for him. at least doing THIS bit this way was right for him.

and i don't think he's special, i think he's an idiot. i'm not doing anything either. i'm watching tv, he's plastering my wall.

'So he's 'special' and 'different' and 'doesn;t trust the professionals' - TBH that's what every single fucking addict in the world says'

i've said this in the past about situations i've found myself in and i'm not an addict. i've got through things my own way - so understand it to a point. the few times i involved professionals it has all gone to pot.

and there's no way i'm devoted to him. i'm unquestioning, but that doesn't mean i believe a word he says, just that i think it's his life and what he is asking of me is fairly little.

OP posts:

solidgoldshaggingbunnies · 19/04/2009 21:45

Frankly: I'm a little uneasy about you in all this. It's a good kind thing to want to support a friend/relative who is battling addiction, but trying to support someone through an illegal-drugs-involving, il-managed detox with no backup, sounds a bit massviely unhealthy. So he's 'special' and 'different' and 'doesn;t trust the professionals' - TBH that's what every single fucking addict in the world says. They're all special and can't cope with the world without drugs/unquestioning devotion from other people. Are you, maybe, buying into the 'specialness'? Are you getting something out of being the only person brave/kind/available enough to let him come and detox at yours?

pavlovthepregnantcat · 19/04/2009 21:07

Frankly - you said last time he did it, he did it long enough to get himself sorted, then was made redundant, and relapsed at this point. If he ensures, now, or in the very near future, that he can establish counselling/support from local drugs agency or similar, if and when he reaches breaking point again, he will have some-one who knows him to support him professionally through that hard time. He would also have learnt skills and techniques to manage the cravings that increase in times of stress, and the two together can ensure that his changes stay. And if he uses once, then he has some-one professional who will not judge him/who will understand what that means to talk to about it and figure out why it might have happened and how to avoid it again, rather than think 'i have slipped, lets keeping falling now'. Stopping is the easiest bit. But staying stopped. That is so so so hard.

pavlovthepregnantcat · 19/04/2009 21:02

the cycle of change shows the stages that some-one must go through in order to beat an addiction. It was (surprisingly/not surprisingly?) based on giving up nicotine, which is the hardest drug to give up (some suggest harder than heroin) but can be applied to any change some-one wants to make. It is based on this cycle of change that can sometimes take 7 serious attempts to get to the 'maintenance' stage of. There are versions of this, but my knowledge of it is this:

Pre-contemplation = 'i don't have a problem with drugs, I control them, not the other way round. I enjoy it, I don't want to stop, I don't need to stop.

Contemplation = 'i would like to stop, but its not the right time, I am too stressed, I will do it tomorrow when I have got xyz over with. I would like to, but I am not sure where to start. Its just not that easy though. But I will, soon'

Decision/preparation = 'i am going to do it. I need to gather some info, I need to find out where I can get help, I am going to get support and I am going to do it. I have made an appt with gp'

Action = 'I have got a meth script. I am seeking counselling, I am making changes' - this stage can be anything from 1 week to 2 years.

Maintenance 'i have not used for x amount of time, I still think about it, I sometimes want to use, and when I do I do x, but I have not used' (some argue this can be a lifetime in maintenance, some argue this is 2 years, once you go past 2 years you are in 'lifestyle change'.

Lapse = i used yesterday, I feel really shit. I really wish I had not used, I am more resolute to never use again (continue with change). Often an important step in changing an addiction as it can re-enforce the positives

Relapse = I used, fuck it, I am not ready, Its too late now, already done, can't change it now (habit returns). If you relapse, you return to a point somewhere on the cycle, usually contempation. Some argue that once you have left pre-contemplation you will never return there, don't have the ambivalence about change, even if you chose to ignore it.

There - that is the cycle of change, can be applied to drugs, or anything else you want to change really, but it is used specifically for drug addiction. You might find it helpful to know what type of journey he is on.

I would never advocate giving up any substance without strong professional support, not least something as powerful as heroin, but if you really are doing this, and want it to work for him you might find "Changing for Good by Prochasta and Diclemente a good book. He might find it useful too.

FranklyIDontGiveAMam · 19/04/2009 16:21

flight

tbh I've really appreciated your posts. I know I haven't exactly taken your advice, but it has helped me keep some perspective and do what i'm doing with much more thought.

it's a tricky and potentially dangerous area, so it is good that all the posts haven't been just a pat on the back, although i have REALLY appreciated those.

OP posts:

flightoftheeasterbunyip · 19/04/2009 15:17

I'm sorry if I came across as judgey.

It just goes so badly against everything I have read or heard or experienced. But that's not to say I am right.

noddyholder · 19/04/2009 14:47

I think you are doing well and no one can say what the right way is.Medical and nhs system never worked for my brother.He went down teh DIY route and is still off after 10 ish years.very judgey thread esp when there are no hard and fast rules for this subject.If he relapses then he does but he will have tried an alternative method and will then have to look at something else.i still think you are doing the right thing in supporting him.

FranklyIDontGiveAMam · 19/04/2009 13:25

pavlov thank you. i am hoping to use time on the holiday to see if i can get some private 1:1 time when his brain is in a better place to offer some longer term suggestions. i have used those websites plus more to find out. i'm planning to call NA too and ask them what they have to say about his worry of meeting other users with contacts. i've found a local one although the meetings are during normal working hours which is a bit annoying.

i think this is his 4th true attempt.

these 7 average attempts? are they with professional help, alone or a mixture do you know?#

he's not asked me to get him heroine. i don't think he would. he knows there is no chance. i have children. i am not letting myself be known to any drug dealers. I will not be threatened either for the same reason.

btw, he was up until 5am this morning plastering a wall in my house and then went to bed and slept until almost 11, missing his 9am dose of methadone (well he had it at 11 obviously). it seems positive.

OP posts:

FranklyIDontGiveAMam · 19/04/2009 13:12

flight, - sorry i don't think i ever said i thought it was a good idea. i'm defending some of his reasoning not condoning his behaviour.

i would far prefer him to do it your way. i have tried hard to persuade him. throwing him out would not persuade him.

i don't think i am doing anything for him. i'm not even cooking for him. i'm just giving him somewhere to sleep and company. i don't think he will accept much help from me tbh. he hasn't even taking the vitamin pills i've been trying to get him to take because he didn't buy them himself.

OP posts:

FranklyIDontGiveAMam · 19/04/2009 13:05

fwiw, the last time he did it, it held long enough for him to get a job, go to college and get a qualification and then a promotion. he was clean for almost 3 years. got himself a nice flat, a lodger, some nice furniture

but then. just before christmas he was made redundant because his qualification meant the company was paying him more than the unqualified people they employed. he looked for more work but over christmas noone was employing, and it was the party season, and he was being pestered too. he knew he was going to lose his flat and so fell off the wagon. after christmas he had some offers of private work, but they required him to be able to drive.

in know that this is true because i have seen his redundnacy letter (although it is him that interprets the reason), it is 'possible' that he was made redundant because he fell of the wagon earlier and becaome unreliable, - i'll believe him for now because i have no concrete reason to doubt him but i don't believe blindly.

OP posts:

FranklyIDontGiveAMam · 19/04/2009 13:05

flight, yes he has done it this way before and it didn't hold true, - but neither is the 'proper' way guaranteed to work.

He needs to be clean to get his provisional license (for at least 8 weeks to get a negative), and then he'll have to take a test before he takes his exam. there may be more tests, but i'm not sure. he will have to have some lessons too. yes it will take a few months

OP posts:

FranklyIDontGiveAMam · 19/04/2009 12:36

solid, he hasn't mistreated me. at least i wouldn't call it that. he knows i won't buy anything for him. i prepared the house before his arrival and removed any temptation, but tbh i have very few things in my house i would miss. i'm not the material kind. having said that, he's been to my house many times during his addiction and never stolen anything. besides, he has money.

i would never let him beat me up. he knows i would call the police. it might seem odd, but i'm not particularly emotionally attached to him so am fairly immune from some manipulative behaviours. i would see him in prison before i would put my family at risk and he knows it. i think that is why he has come to me.

OP posts:

FranklyIDontGiveAMam · 19/04/2009 12:30

Snorbs, he lied his way through 'enforced' councelling and as a result has disrespect for the profession.

The short term detox offers him a change of house, job, friends and lifestyle.

I have no idea if he is telling me the truth. I don't have particularly high expectations of him. However, I do see with my own eyes his committment to give this a go, his honesty to the pharmacist and his sheer determination. I have listed to his buzzing thoughts that even through the worst of it had him shouting 'my life is shit on these drugs' and 'i'm gonna get a job as soon as possible'

OP posts:

flightoftheeasterbunyip · 19/04/2009 10:33

And all this is quite apart from the license fraud thing he has going on...I'm interested to know why a license would usually be denied to a former recent addict. Because if this is for a good reason too, you and he are doing something very silly and dangerous in conspiring to get one. What about the other road users he might put at risk? What about the children he might run into?

I don't know why license rules such as that are in place so I might be barking up the wrong tree.

flightoftheeasterbunyip · 19/04/2009 10:30

Exactly Pavlov - there's a reason why it takes so long to do it 'properly' because it's about a change in mindset and that's very deep. It's almost like saying a person can change from being a violent, abusive husband by going cold turkey. It doesn't work that way, usually.

Also, it's likely something will have to be sacrificed if he really wants to stop.

A relative of mine gave up alcohol after being a heavy drinker. Yes stopping the drinking was hard, but he wanted to do it finally, and he was prepared to sacrifice a little bit of his old personality to do so - he lost a lot of his 'spark', his extremities of feeling...he became slightly 'flat' but that was the price he paid, and it meant he was no longer a threat to anyone.

It's not simple. There's a reason he's been taking it and it's this what wants sorting out, iyswim. He's just sticking a plaster on top without that deep and life changing counselling etc that takes such a long time. Which to me indicates he's in denial about his need for something to cover his inner pain, and unwilling to face whateer he's trying to cover up using the heroin.

If he can't face that, he's probably not strong enough to stay off it.

I really hope i'm wrong though.

pavlovthepregnantcat · 19/04/2009 09:27

Has he ever tried to come off heroin before? It takes on average 7 serious attempts to quit heroin before it is successful.

pavlovthepregnantcat · 19/04/2009 09:24

FAQ it is illegal to drive without a licence as you will have no insurance, you will be banned and will get a criminal conviction for it too.

pavlovthepregnantcat · 19/04/2009 09:23

WOW, very very brave to do cold turkey in a setting that has no medical support. This is usually done in a rehab clinic, with other drugs on hand that can be prescribed to get through particular bad patches. Even in rehab it is not done in 10 days.

He needs fluid mainly. And nothing else will do much without medical intervention. He is going to be in a LOT of discomfort, he might insist/beg/threaten you to get heroin for him, and he appear like he will die from the pain. He WONT DIE.

But it won't necessarily mean he will be free from this drug forever. Drug addiction is as much about mental state of mind that physical presence of a substance. He will have to deal with emotional feelings, which have been blocked by heroin. This can be harder than physical pain, especially if he has emotional pain he has been masking.

FAQinglovely · 19/04/2009 09:16

well given that the relative is only going to be with the OP for a relatively short period (10 days, then a weeks holiday with her) - then will be at his mum's house

As has already been said the hardest part is staying off - and that will be from his mothers house - not the OP's.

flightoftheeasterbunyip · 19/04/2009 07:00

What I mean is someone wanting to withdraw from anything, needs to do it themselves - not because someone else 'gets them to' - not even one small part of it should come from you. He needs to take responsibility completely and he isn't doing - he's getting you to, so in future he can blame you for it not working, because you accepted the role.

Do you understand?

flightoftheeasterbunyip · 19/04/2009 06:58

Totally with Snorbs on every single point.

By FranklyIDontGiveAMam on Sat 18-Apr-09 22:17:41
i'm proud that i managed to get him to confide in the pharmacist

Frankly - can you not see how mixed up this is? It's not about YOU. He's doing a shortcut - there is a very good reason this kind of withdrawal is not recognised as a great way to go by the professionals. Basically being an unemployable methadone addict for three years is nothing bad, if it means getting over heroin properly - rather than doing it in such a deluded manner as he is - he's done it this way before, right? And oh, it didn't hold.

How is he hoping to get a license straight away if he never had one? I don't understand. It took me at least 9 months with good driving lessons to get my license...it's even harder these days. or is he planning to drive without a license - in which case why does it matter about the GP knowing, as he won't be applying for one?

Sorry I am really losing any sense of this being reasonable - not that I had much to start with.

I don't believe in what you are doing, and to 'support' you in it would be disingenuous and wrong. I have no idea why you think it is a good idea, and I hope you realise this before you get shafted or something else.

Sorry I can't offer meaningless 'support'. You sound right out of your depth.

solidgoldshaggingbunnies · 19/04/2009 01:13

I think the OP is doing a brave and well-meaning thing but one which may well not work. Frankly, use the websites you have been told about to make sure you have as much information as possiblem, and please be clear in your own mind where the line is. For your own sake. Letting him beat you up or steal from you or risk a criminal record by being sent out to buy him illegal things - you don't have to do this. YOU matter. It's very very unlikely that he ever did something for you that means you owe him your whole life. If it gets too much for you, then that doesn;t mean you have failed or are a bad person or 'selfish' or 'unkind' or 'taking away his last chance' - it means that YOU matter just as much as he does, and he is not entitled to mistreat you or damage your life because he won't get professional help.

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