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Has his counsellor f**ked up our marriage?! Should we complain?! VERY ANGRY

48 replies

AngryatCounsellor · 25/03/2009 09:18

If anyone recognises me please don't out me.

Right I don't want this to turn into an essay so I will try to give the bare bones.

DH was given counselling a year ago for severe depression. Wanted to self-harm, terrible guilt for everything, very miserable. I took him to GP and he got ADs and counselling.

After about a month DH comes home from a session angry at his counsellor because she is putting all the blame on me. One of DH's problems was that anytime he felt terrible he would confirm his negative thoughts by thinking "DW thinks I'm horrible so it must be true". So I reassure him that what his counsellor was trying to do was build his trust in his own self-worth rather than rely on his assumptions about what "DW" thought. I was also constantly refuting all his thoughts and telling him I thought he was a good, kind, generous man. I comforted him and talked through everything with him whenever he needed it.

DH also had problems with repressing anger - it would all come out at me when he was drunk, but other than that he wouldn't even recognise he was angry, but would lash out in other ways (sullen, passive aggressive type behaviour).

Roll forward 6-9 months and I have a very different person to deal with. DH still thoroughly depressed and negative and thinking of self-harm. BUT now also suffering enormous mood swings between anger (always at me) and extreme self-pity. He had become emotionally abusive - if I was sad it was always met with anger; he belittled my need to be sad, told me I was holding back his therapy by making him feel bad, avoided being with me at all, used any vulnerability on my part as evidence of my "fallibility", accused me of lying all the time, wouldn't believe anything I said without proof, told me to think about my responsibility in his pain, and if he asked me to explain why I was so hurt and I wouldn't (because he would get angry or use it against me) then I was being "childish" and "pathetic" and trying to manipulate him

So... unsurprisingly I get ill (did I mention I am pregnant too), and was so surprised when my counsellor (not the same one) was nice to me and said I was justified in all my pain (lovely MNers said the same and I am eternally grateful to them). That I was allowed to be sad and angry and hurt and let down.

I asked DH to move out, he was devastated but we talked it through and he came to see it as a positive opportunity to work on his sadness and his marriage without the day to day drudgery (I took on all of that).

DH became very angry (as I feared he would). Spent all his time socialising, putting his friends before his dcs' visits, drinking when he had become tee-total due to its bad affect on him. When I tried to get him to put his dcs first I was accused of being controlling and manipulative and the more he visibly upset me the more angry he got

He'd been gone a month when he had a last huge outburst at me for not being willing to swap contact days as I had plans (never physical violence I want to stress). But when it peaked he collapsed into tears and I comforted him.

We got talking about his anger and his mood swings. Anyway to cut a long story short all this emerged:-

His counsellor has been encouraging him to be angry and express it, but has given him none of the tools to do so. She has not taught him how to be angry, but has praised him for any anger he expressed.

His counsellor when asked in Jan by him to use CBT techniques in sessions rubbished CBT but said she would incorporate some into sessions - never did.

She told him all his problems stem from listening to me too much and that he must question everything I say.

She told him that my sadness was because of my "unrealistic expectations" of him and completely my own fault. Apparently I keep (her words) "moving the goal posts" so he could never succeed.

She told him that I was blaming him for everything and that I needed to take responsibility for what was going wrong in our marriage.

She told him he needed to break out of the "adult/child" roles we were in, but didn't tell him how he could do this. He thought spending time with his friends and "standing up for himself" (i.e. getting angry) were him taking control and being an adult

She had completely undermined all the trust he had in me and made me the enemy. His paranoia is through the roof as he honestly believed I was out to get him.

So while I was at home being emotionally neglected and abused and not understanding why my DH wasn't trying to save our (previously solid, but now shaky) marriage, she was telling him that his behaviour was right and just and that this was the path to getting better.

Instead of increasing his self-worth and self-reliance, she was attacking my "unhealthy hold" over him.

We talked and we talked and we talked and although I know that she only has his views to work from, and was trying to help him, it became more and more clear that her advice is why my DH became this cruel, uncaring, nasty person.

We both went to his GP yesterday to discuss getting CBT for him. The GP was shocked that his counsellor hadn't provided any and was equally shocked by how long he had been seeing her without any real progress.

On the positive side, he is much more in touch with his emotions now - and he needed to be. She has shown him that his views are important and worthwhile - and he needed to feel that. But I just feel she has done untold damage to this family.

She has actually been telling him straight out how to interpret situations, rather than helping him find his own interpretations. He says that when he couldn't think straight she would tell him what to think - and it was never good for me.

So...

If you got through all that, thank you.

DH is now changing counsellor - although the idea of it terrifies him, because even though he is angry with her he is also completely emotionally dependent on her - and he's getting CBT and anger management.

He is still not living at home because I need to know if this change is temporary or not, but he has started being there for me in the past few days in a way that he hasn't been capable of for a year

Am I right in thinking she did something wrong or is this normal? I am really angry and want to complain to someone, but not if there's no point. I know she has to base her views on what her patient says, but in the early days I know he used to argue with her if she was negative about me and tell her everything I did for him and said to him.

TIA

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charitygirl · 25/03/2009 10:01

Hello - I know I have no way of knowing what happened in his counselling, but i have experience of therapeutic work with abusive partners and I am sceptical of what he says.

Not that there aren't some shite counsellors out thre but if you are who I think you are your husband is a skilled manipulator who knows what to say to get the reaction he wants. You are now pissed off at the counsellor, and thinking maybe your DH isn't 'to blame'. Maybe that is the way it is, but it is certainly a good result fir him

In my work, partners of abusive men always have simultaneous contact with counsellors (separately from partner of course) so that they men cannot bullshit them ('the counselor says its all your fault' etc. As your DH isn't in a 'perpatrator programme' this obviously isn' happening with you but the thing he is saying are so like the things abusive men say when they are going through therapy.

Im so sorry if this adds another layer of confusion to your thinking.

MadameCastafiore · 25/03/2009 10:04

I think he is spinning you a load of old shit personally and the counsellor has said nothing fo the sort.

hobbgoblin · 25/03/2009 10:06

Lovey, I have been in your shoes and I was as devoted as you are and yet as strong in myself as you are. It is easy to be manipulated if you are kind and trusting. I still believe that it is better to trust and be wrong than to be forever suspicious. You just need to use that support you have to keep you safe (emotionally) and allow some distance.

You have already proven your commitment and love so it will not do any harm to take a step back now, ease off on the blind faith and let him prove his commitment to getting better and to loving you properly to YOU now.

If - and it is a definite if - he is like my emotionally (eventually physically) abusive ExP, then this will be more smoke screen, more time buying in order to stay in his safe place of blame and unaccountability.

When you have Personality Disorder or other mental/emotional difficulties it is much easier to keep dealing with people and situations in the bad way because it is all you know. If he suffers from PD or similar, and blame is his modus operandi then he will perpetually shift blame amongst those he is close to in order to keep those he needs at any time closest.

Essentially, if he is struggling with counselling and has made progress to date with his counsellor then he will be at the point of 'change' - a tough time in any counselling. Therefore, right now, rather than change he will feel the need to avoid and the way to do this is to poo poo the counsellor. He needs to get you on side with this deception to himself - he cannot afford to lose you because he needs you - so he needs to get you to feel equally angry at the counsellor.

Don't do it! Let him sort this out, take responsibility and be accountable. It's his counsellor, his counselling and his issue - not yours. If this problem is real then taking responsibility for complaining will be therapy in itself in that it will teach him self reliance.

Please don't side with him. Just listen and support whatever he does in complaining and finding a new counsellor, but do not agree with something to him when you do not know the facts. This will just prove to him his power over you and ability to hoodwink you into condoning his dropping out of his programme towards change.

AngryatCounsellor · 25/03/2009 10:17

hobbgoblin, that was a fantastic post. You are right. If this is all true then he needs to deal with it. If it's all crap then I need to have no responsibility in it.

Just so you know I have no intention of letting him home any time soon (and have told him this).

I will hold onto my newfound support with both hands.

Time will tell.

He really wasn't always like this - I'm not just saying that.

Right, dealing with the counsellor or not is nothing to do with me.

( It's me with the blame ishooos I want it to be all someone else's fault it would make this soo much easier to fix)

Right, feet back on the ground.

Thanks to everyone who has offered insights. I have read them all and they all help - sorry I haven't replied individually to everyone.

OP posts:
charitygirl · 25/03/2009 10:25

Glad to hear it.

I have to add I'm not sure what the CBT would be for in his case. I'm not a real expert but CBT has specific applications around changing specific behaviours, and I think yor DH has layers of other stuff to work through first before he is ready to make sustainable behavioural change that lasts beyond the first hiccup.

And, as you obviously know, your husband may never be able to make the changes in therapy that would allow your marriage to work.

oopsagain · 25/03/2009 10:26

i think hobgoblin is right too.
Be strong and just wait- time will tell.

I hope you are feeling better, i really think that you need to let it unfold a little for a whie- just to see what happens next with him.
It's all so raw and emotinal just now for you.
Heal and get strong

AngryatCounsellor · 25/03/2009 10:35

Thanks CG and Oops. I actually think CBT would be perfect for DH's depression. Up until a year or two ago he always thought the best of everything and everyone, somewhere, sometime (and there were a few traumatic events in our lives that would have triggered it) he changed his assumptions to "everyone is out to get me" and saw the bad in everything. He went from a PA with not much anger to suppress, to a PA unable to keep it all in. So even if they could just change his basic assumptions back from negative to neutral or positive then I don't think he would be in so much pain and he wouldn't have so much paranoia, fear and suspicion.

At least that is what I see and what I think. And I am biased and want to see the good.

BUT

I am not taking anymore crap either. This is not my fault. I am entitled to feel how I feel. I am not responsible for his feelings. And I do really believe that now

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hobbgoblin · 25/03/2009 10:42

I hope I'm wrong you know, but pleased that in posting you might have been able to get some persepective/distance from this to allow him to do what he needs to do.

I'm sure it's all rather complex, but one day it will all become clear and that will make you feel a million times happier and be such a weight lifted that whatever the outcome for you both as a couple you will be glad and able to look forwards positively.

cremeeggs · 25/03/2009 11:52

Agree Hobgoblin's post is fantastic and contains in a nutshell the general gist of what has been said here.

I also agree (as a counsellor) that CBT would not necessarily be the best thing in this case anyway - IMHO it scratches the surface where long term, deep issues are involved with possiblity personality disorder. CBT is quite a "quick fix" for specific issues - eg. eating disorders, anxiety, certain types of depression - but it sounds like your DP's issues are far more complex and far-reaching so CBT probably wouldn't help as much as open-ended counselling with a good counsellor.

I think as everyone has said that it is very unlikely the counsellor said any of the things that have been reported - it would be unethical and wouldn't fit with the general counselling principles. However if your DH is good at interpreting things as he wishes to see them there could be an element of projection going on here.

You have had some very good advice and sound as if you are well supported to deal with this.

LEMAGAIN · 25/03/2009 12:55

I think you have every right to be angry and complain! I see a great counsellor and i spend quite a bit of time moaning about my DP - but she never EVER blames him for MY feelings. She will express when she feels he is being out of order, but on the whole she helps me look at MY behaviour and how it affects my DP.

The adult/child thing is actually interesting - if you can step back you can see the cycle of behaviour and put a stop to it - but this is something we ALL do! It just sounds like your DPs counsellor never really got a grip on what it all means!!!!

What does your DH want to do now?

LEMAGAIN · 25/03/2009 12:56

Also, i do wonder if your DH is telling the truth about what the counsellor has said about things and put his own spin on things

LEMAGAIN · 25/03/2009 12:59

ooooh, im really angry about this - sorry to keep posting. My counsellor has always said to me that she can only talk about ME and how i react to things, never about DP as such - she needs to see him to do that and has offered to, but she is absolutely clear that she is not there to take sides and i often think FFS woman will you please call my DP a selfish prick - but he isn't! But even if he was, its not her place to say so!

AngryatCounsellor · 25/03/2009 13:07

hobbgoblin

cremeeggs thank you for the insight from the other side. It is perfectly possible that he interpreted her comments to support his own actions, but I do believe him (possibly foolishly) when he says that she did not give him the tools he needed to be angry in an assertive and constructive way. She has been entirely focused on finding roots to problems (which is important and helpful) and seems to have forgotten to check on the behaviours this might bring out.

Lemagain DH wants to stop seeing her and begin working with a lady who is trained in CBT as well as other methods. He also wants to attend anger management classes to sort out his aggression. I think he wants to just move on from it all. He says that he is dependent on her. I think we'll leave it all to settle, see what happens and if he actively tries to change, and play it by ear.

I'm going to let my anger at her go now, because I don't know the whole story.

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AngryatCounsellor · 25/03/2009 13:52

Lemagain yes I am sure DH has interpreted things his own way. It doesn't justify all the things he has done.

But I do think that she has crossed a line with regards to discussing me with him rather than just him (particularly as she has never met me or asked to meet me). One of her mantras early on, before DH really started being this horrible man, whenever he was paralysed by his own guilt was, "Where is DW's responsibility in this situation?". And I am certain that she really said this (repeatedly) as he talked about feeling unsure about it at the time (I reassured him to trust her ) and it later became a stick that he used to beat me with (shouted at me in anger when he justified blaming me for his depression).

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LEMAGAIN · 25/03/2009 14:04

this is interesting because i do discuss my DP with my counsellor, he is a big factor in my depression (he doesn't cause it, but is affected by it and doesn't always respond in the best way). I have self esteem issues and one of the things i do is take very personally any little comment DP makes. I also tend to shoulder all the responsibility for the problems we have - my counsellor points out, correctly, that it isn't all me - that my DP does share the responsibility for issues within our relationship, or just day to day issues. But she is really referring to MY tendancy to take everything on my own shoulders - it could be easy to interpret as "oh, so DP is a cunt too" when that is not what she means. It would be impossible for me not to discuss DP as he is a big part of my life. It could be that your DHs counsellor is trying to say the same thing, but she is either not saying it very well or your DH is choosing to twist it.

AngryatCounsellor · 25/03/2009 14:11

In many ways it is more likely that he is twisting it, thanks for letting me know that your counsellor says similar things. When he first said it to me (in a "not sure about this" way) I told him she was trying to get him to see that he is not responsible for everything, pretty much exactly what you were able to take from it.

Somewhere along the line it got changed to "I don't have to take responsibility it is all DW's fault".

I still think she has failed him - even if it does just come down to the fact that she should have recommended he go to another counsellor, when things were not improving.

Thanks Lemagain

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Rhubarb · 25/03/2009 14:13

Sorry, not read all the posts, but is there any chance you can go to one of his counselling sessions with him?

Tell the counsellor what problems you are having and get her to explain what she has done. This will enable your dh to understand your pov. If he has not been following her advice correctly, this should become evident. It also means that she can't excuse her practices by saying that he's misinterpreted if he's in the room.

Both of you should make an appt to see her.

LEMAGAIN · 25/03/2009 14:15

yes, you are right AaC, it was absolutely her responsibility to do that if things weren't progressing. My counsellor said that to me right at the begining that she reserved the right to refer me on to another counsellor if we couldnt get past barriers etc. Luckily for me she is great and realistic.

AngryatCounsellor · 25/03/2009 14:17

Rhubarb, DH actually suggested this last night (progress maybe?), it would certainly mean we could all discuss what has been going on.

In fact the more I think about it, the more it seems like the bloody obvious thing to do.

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moopymoo · 25/03/2009 14:25

Ok will declare an interest as I am a counsellor ...
It would be very very surprising and very unethical if the counsellor was blaming you etc. It would not however be surprising at all if your dh decided to hear that the counsellor was saying this.
This time of anger could be a real turning point for him. You said 'He went from a PA with not much anger to suppress, to a PA unable to keep it all in' - well if I look at my own theoretical background (person-centred) I would say that at no point did the anger just appear - the emotions would be there already, anger can stand alone or can be a kind of 'short hand' for a huge number of other feelings. Keeping it all in, never a good plan imo better to defuse the bomb than sit on it.
And I dont adhere to the 10 sessions before its working model. Can happen in 5 session can be 50. No rule of thumb. Though a review and a 'where are we' checking out is good practice.
CBT can be great for specific stuff but...i have had several clients that say well I had CBT 5 yrs ago , it fixed the crisis, but I still feel the same inside.
Counsellors are therapists BTW - somebody said we are not. We vary in quality like any profession. But the training I have done has been harder than any previously - I have a post grad degree in unrelated stuff and that was a breeze compared to counselling training!

AngryatCounsellor · 25/03/2009 14:35

Moopymoo thank you for that honest reply. My feelings have certainly changed since the OP.

I am leaning towards his interpretation of what she is saying confirming his need to blame someone else.

Do you think discussing all this with her, me and Dh would help anyone?

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moopymoo · 25/03/2009 14:44

who knows, angry, who knows. I dont want to start making any assumptions about what is going on for you. I can say that as a counsellor I would be very wary of this , not because I had stuff to hide, not at all, but because the complex relationship that can exist in deep therapy can be hard for a third party to get to grips with. And remember that the counsellor is there for your dh, not you. The aim would perhaps to kind of use you as a theraputic tool for dh, not give you answers yourself. Though that is just how I work ,there are many more ways to skin a chicken so to speak. If you are looking for answers yourself, you might not find them there. Sorry to sound a bit er, wanky about it all. btw feeling very frustrated with the counselling process can be part of the journey. peaks and troughs you know, not a smooth upward climb. On the other hand, she might just be a shit counsellor - always a possibility! Very best of luck.

AngryatCounsellor · 25/03/2009 15:08

Thanks Moopy all sounds sensible to me. I was always very much of the opinion that his sessions were all about him and that I mustn't be involved.

I haven't for one second thought that she did anything deliberately to hurt anyone. I do completely believe that she has his best interests at heart.

Ah well, I think I have to leave this now. I do feel deflated. I do not want to believe that my dh is capable of any of the things that he has done. I think this has shown me that I'm not quite at the point of giving up on us yet. But I'm not the person I was a month ago either.

I have a lot to think on.

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