Alcoholics Anonymous triggering CPTSD. Please advise!

[connecsheon]

I started AA in January as I was using alcohol a little too much to deal with being re-traumatised by my abusive father. My main issue is not alcohol it's CPTSD possible BPD too.

At first I quite like people showing me a bit of kindness and my determined nature has kept me away from alcohol without any slips up.

However, I feel I am now being pressured by one woman who has become a friend to go to as many meetings as possible and keeps pressuring me to get a sponsor.

They call AA free therapy. I have trying to keep my boundaries with her and stuck to one day which is plenty for me. She goes every single day sometimes twice a day and keeps going on and on phoning me to come. So I go to the odd extra one.

I am starting to hate these meetings. Listening to vague stories that trigger me and make me go home feeling worse. It is used as a dating agency by some and I see predatory behaviour going on. This friend is using it to find a husband and went off after the meeting to have sex with man who picks her up and puts her down and triggers her to relapse. She doesn't even do the steps herself, but keeps piling on pressure to get a sponsor. Some of the people are vile, and the ones who aren't still make me feel pressured. She calls me her life guru, but I'm a newcomer and don't want this type of relationship.

I hate the whole 12 Steps program; it uses the same language as my past abusers. I do not want a sponsor to a program that I believe is very shaming. But this woman keeps pressuring me.

I was dragged to a meeting yesterday and felt so socially awkward, as we'd arrived early and I asked her if I should sit in the car whilst she did her "service". A man who I have never me heard this and I must have dented his ego by saying this as he called me "a silly old woman,"
for saying such a stupid thing.

I just want to do my therapy with my QUALIFIED therapist, focus on my main goal with her and slowly build safe social connection on the side.

Where can I find social connection without falling prey to these culty type groups? I'm already worried about how I'm going to explain that this whole thing is not for me to this friend that I am now finding manipulative and controlling.

Ps your line "I've never wanted to be rejected so much in my whole life" did make me chuckle 🤭. Keep your sense of humour about you - it'll help in this business of the ups and downs of life ☺️

No please don't apologise. I find myself nodding along with everything you have said. Also as I've haven't been to many meetings, it is validating to me that I am sensing what you are putting into words for me. Thank you CPTSD just for today lol!

The irony is I feel so much better now as I blocked my father who was re-traumatising me, INTENTIONALLY may I add. I haven't wanted to drink and I got myself a therapist and work on healthy coping strategies daily. It has all been working beautifully.

It was I was going to the meetings I started to feel so much worse after I left. The irony is I saw how miserable, hypocritical and unwell most of still are.

Although I have some sympathy for this woman, I have been very hurt by this insecure type and it's been a running theme in my life. They can do very nasty things to you. My problem is I usually feel too much sympathy for these types so I am keeping it in check. She belittles me in front of others a lot I've noticed and many more red flags are flying. I can start to feel the envy, which oddly enough is another type I attract. She says she will get jealous if she sees me connecting to others in the group. I have been avoiding her and showing that I don't want to be embroiled in her drama.

BECAUSE of this she has just sent me a gratitude list with her "shag" on it with Mr emotionally unavailable. She never usually works on herself, so this is just a ploy to get my attention. She also added me to the list, so a sprinkle of manipulation with it.

What I have to watch now is my justification to isolate again. What I would rather do is find business network groups with people who want the same things as me. The ADHD psychiatrist said to get a partner if you have ADHD, as its much easier than doing it alone.

I'm taking into account all you have said to keep moving forward and I am very grateful for it.

I think I have CPTSD more than BPD (more symptomatic of this when younger), but I've never been officially diagnosed. I'm going to speak to my therapist tonight about my goals for the therapy. She said we have to go back to go forward.

Im using her question about going to a meeting to launch "the statement" you helped me with! Here goes wish me luck. I will UPDATE if only for others who may ever find themselves in this situation. I'm done being manipulated and not will be practising my boundary setting.

I had a feeling this would happen.

I said the statement and she said no worries the meetings aren't for everyone and that she's sorry if she has pushed them on me. That's not her usual response when I try to get away.

It is something about me that is at play here, that these emotional vampire types latch on to me. I would describe them as the frenemy type. They don't like you, but something attracts them to you. They try to suck my time and attention away from myself and my goals and are very jealous of everything. Just from comments and behaviour, I see this already in her already. Definitely a stalky type. She asked me so many intrusive questions in such a skilful way some I answered most I didn't.

I don't know what to do now. These are the types of things that I need to learn how to deal with, it sets off horrible CPTSD symptoms. As on the surface they pretend nice, so that when you want to get away from them
it's really difficult. Something to work on with therapy, but I'm open to suggestions!

Dear @connecsheon , I'm so pleased to hear your alternative therapy has been working really well - that's such a positive! Keep going

Re: BPD - I've never really been a great fan of that diagnosis. I think a lot of women (and it is usually women ) that get that label applied are nearly always very young and have had trauma in their lives. When you're younger you don't yet have the skills or emotional regulation to deal with life in a "normal way" and can act in a very "dysregulated" way. There are many cases of women being diagnosed with BPD that actually end up having either C-PTSD or neuro divergence such as autism or ADHD.

The woman you're talking if sounds very mentally unhealthy. Unfortunately for her, that is not your problem. This kind of person needs professional help and will not benefit your recovery in any way. I'm a total "empath" and used to feel guilty also for "disregarding" such people. But at the end of the day, I realised, and you will realise "nope. I must put my own health and welfare first" and if you have to cut out people that are too needy/clingy/ mentally unwell- so be it. They like us, have their own duty to help themselves first. That was one of the worst things about AA for me - being surrounded by mentally unwell people. It does sound hypocritical as I was mentally unwell at the time - but it's better to surround yourself with as many mentally healthy people as possible (including professionals) who will give you god solid advice coming from a place of stability.

I do know what you mean about the personalities there, it's not all in your head. I too experienced a lot of sarcasm, cutting remarks, passive aggressive digs and some very uncomfortable "stares" (and it really was not in my head !). Ironically this behaviour was most prevelant when I was "better", sober (although truthfully I didn't really ever have a problem staying sober- alcohol was never my main problem. I just abused it as a solution to the anxiety/depression/ past trauma) which I'm now very successfully on top of- thank goodness. I do think being vulnerable is beneficial to them (that's just my opinion). All in all the environment for me was toxic (that's the most succinct word I can use).

That woman will now be giving you the flippant cold shoulder as you're "rejecting AA". Just keep firm in your beliefs. I don't really think it's worth even giving her some advice or feedback on how she's leant on you/trauma dumped. Your aim is to extricate yourself and move on with your other forms of therapy. Believe me, she won't hassle you for long, you're a soundboard for her, she'll move on to the next one very soon, sadly there'll be plenty to choose from.

Keep strong

Ps I can hear that you care deeply about what others may think and probably over analyse people (guilty as charged here !) it took me a long time to stop it. Age and anti depressants helped enormously. Also I said before, surrounding yourself with mentally healthy people gives you a really good levelling and modelling on how people with good mental health behave and think. Sounds almost a little strange, but I learnt a lot from practicing healthy thoughts and behaviours that I'd learnt from others and it eventually gets embedded in your own behaviour (it did with me anyway ).

Also remember you have a right to privacy. Your mental health is absolutely nobody else's business. Unfortunately poor mental health tends to alienate people (I do understand why). So nobody you meet or friends you make, or even your own family have the right to know the ins and outs of your health. I tell people on a need to know basis of my past struggles. Even my best friend knows very little of the depths of my past struggles - there's no need. It's not who I am today. However, if I sense someone is experiencing problems similar to one's I've had, if I trust them, I will share, in order to help them and make them feel less alone and to give hope.

AA tends to foster "over sharing" and back in the real world, that's not always advantageous.

The exception is in any kind of therapy. In a trusted environment. Honesty and healthy disclosure is key.

@connecsheon I am also someone with complex abuse trauma (my father too and others) and BPD and I have found good therapy to be a game changer (Dialectical Behaviour Therapy and some inner child trauma work). I don't drink anymore but I struggle with food, and I joined a 12 step group known as Food Addicts Anonymous and it was very like what you described with A A- a lot of shame, emphasis on "You're an addict" and was even told that my psych meds were not needed ,it was just another addiction. I found the fellowship v intense. I did try Overeater s Anon, and this was much more relaxed, they were fine with me doing therapy and having meds too.

I do think fellowships vary, I have met quite a few people who have done AA, and many of them do describe the culty and shaming behaviour you've described in your post. Others have found much better A A meetings but there is a huge risk I think with any peer led organisation.

I wish you all the very best, I know it isn't easy dealing with CPTSD and the trust issues linked to it. Shame is so very toxic to us survivors, and finding a trauma informed type of approach is very vital.

@Halloumiheaven

"but it's better to surround yourself with as many mentally healthy people as possible (including professionals) who will give you god solid advice coming from a place of stability. "

Exactly and this is what I was sensing and why those meetings were making me feel so much worse.

I knew intuitively that I need stable, qualified people to learn from. Something that was actively discouraged by some. I mean the people who they wanted me to be sponsored by were not in a position I'd want to be in.

Many swap addiction to alcohol to addiction to meetings. I want more to life than my time being sucked away by those depressing meetings.

I spoke to the therapist about this woman and she said a lot of what you have advised. I have relaxed now you've said that she won't bother me much more once she sees I won't be her soundboard and that's what I was hoping. I started to panic when she started saying she still wanted to hang out with me and wanted to get "a definite date in the diary for coffee"! My therapist wants me to practise my boundaries here and has given me some exercises to do around boundary setting. I can tell she doesn't want me near this woman from what she said.

My intention of being so personal on here is to help anyone else who may be reading this and going through this. I'd like to say trust your gut instincts or ask stable, qualified professionals for advice and reassurance if you can't trust your gut instincts and/or are confused by knowing up from down when your feeling vulnerable and dysregulated. In time they will give you the tools to be able to do this for yourself. @Halloumiheaven advice is invaluable and mirrors my experience, thoughts and instincts to a tee.

For example another love interest of the AA woman, said to me that he would have nicked my purse before he went into AA. I can't tell you how triggering that was for me. He was also trying to manipulate the hell out of me and even did a jump scare on me (I think it was to see if I had symptoms of CPTSD and may have been a bit of power and control going on too). Be careful of the intrusive questions, as they want to know how you tick. This man was doing this to me. I believe that there are many potentially dangerous people in there that are very skilled at brain-washing and will most definitely practise on vulnerable people. I was told I shouldn't judge people on what the did in active addiction to shame me into being boundary-less around people I didn't trust - like this guy. They will use the statement "well I'm sure you wouldn't want to be judged on your past." Then the mentally I'll woman started insisting I fancied this guy. My goodness the lunacy of it all. I'm so relieved I legged it. Please, please be careful. I feel so much safer with the therapist.

I think you are right that once I start becoming more healed from trauma, I may be able to start making connections with people who are healthy and stable. I said to my therapist that an an acquaintance/friend had recently started wanting to meet up with me and phoning me more and I suspect it's as she has a use for me. Unfortunately I was right and it's because she wants a support network and babysitter for when she has her baby. Did I come away feeling hurt, yes as I knew it was coming. However, you have given me hope that when I start progressing in therapy, I will probably attract the right people to me who share my interests and goals etc. Plus I need to stop isolating to get that anyway.

Once again @Halloumiheaven I so appreciate your advice and insights and I hope others are benefitting from them too.

Horrible that you had to go through that too, and yes once an attachment figure has harmed you then we become ripe for other abusers to come along. Unfortunately that has happened to me.

This has put me off peer led organisation for now and I will be sticking to therapy. I really want to try IFS and DBT.

Thank you very much I wish you the best too. My first addiction was to food as a child and I know how horrible that is. You are so right I will not go near any other organisation who use shaming language or tactics either. Trauma-informed approaches are the only way!

Sorry for the brief message - but just wanted to recommend a podcast on Spotify (it may be available on other platforms?) called 'group thinking ' it centres around people that have left AA and are articulating the harm it has caused them and constructively criticizing the concept.

It's probably going to be largely American focused but I'm currently listening to 'Hilary's story from the UK. It's very enlightening and validating.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/055sldWLtAxDYV1ClKX574?si=QILAY6jqRbKnuDlQwH01DA

This is a link

Thank you I needed something interesting to listen to.