Brother in Law… mental health

[DamnitImTired]

This is not really a question but perhaps someone will engage in a discussion with me to help me understand better.
My brother in law has some sort of as yet undiagnosed mental health condition. We are in the process of getting him the help he (and we) need. Symptoms:

1. he has no insight into his problem. Ie he believes he is of sound mind
2. he has lost all his life earnings in various internet scams and then sold all his possessions in recovery scams trying to get his lost money back. He has razed his life to the ground, even sold his bed and has been sleeping on the floor of his rental
3. This has been going on for weeks. Everything we ask him what his plan is to get out of this mess he tells us confidently about another obvious scam which he believes in.
4. after all he has been through he still cannot identify a scam
5. he is planning on going here and there with people because there is ‘money’ due to him coming soon from these scams. The money is always coming ‘tomorrow’
6. he develops ‘relationships’ with strangers on the internet and trusts them (various of these people have proven to be the very people who have scammed him).
7. he takes great offense when you point out the facts which point to these schemes being scams
8. he seems delusional but possibly these are just overvalued ideas?
9. logic just does not seem to exist
10. we are providing basic food to him but he sees no problem with living with no furniture and no money (not even enough to buy a loaf of bread)
11. he says he will just get a job but he has no transport as he sold his car and we live in a country with no public transport and he doesn’t have the funds to pay for a taxi
12. he gets very offended even angry when you suggest that he may have a mental health problem

What are your thoughts?

Does he seem generally quite happy, high energy despite all of this?

Has he had previous times with odd behaviours and/or bouts of depression?

Very much sounds like bipolar and he is having a manic episode.

That’s what I thought of originally but when I looked into bipolar symptoms I thought differently as he has never been a high energy guy and just seems the worst version of himself at the moment and is certainly not happy. He says he is aware of his situation and that he has ‘made mistakes’ but cannot seem to be aware of the cycle of ‘mistakes’ he is making and just thinks that tomorrow will be better because one of these schemes is going to materialize.
Latest development is that he is going to a Coldplay concert and will be flying there. When asked how he is going to fund this trip? He says (albeit not to us, to someone else) that his money is coming in tomorrow. Coldplay are on a world tour but are not playing in our country, certainly not the city he says he is going to and there will be no money coming in… I don’t know.

I have to add the his level of gullibility is severe and defy logic. Someone will tell him that he has inherited a house and needs to pay a certain sum to have this house transferred into his name, and he will go to all avenues to find the money to pay these people to get the house. And this is after a number of similar scams where he has lost money. He just cannot differentiate between reality and what he wants to believe to be true.

Whatever is wrong he sounds delusional. It isn't normal behaviour and could quickly escalate to more dangerous levels. I definitely think that from what you've said he requires psychiatric help.

It sounds like he has never developed any healthy scepticism or circumspection around what people tell him. Takes everything literally, and assumes what he is being told is true, every time. A scammer’s dream, in fact. There are obviously plenty of gullible people around, or scams wouldn’t exist, but I agree, it’s usually once bitten, rather than over and over again.

What was he like when younger? Did he struggle at school, with friendships, etc. Was he into drugs and drinking? Does he have a good career or employment history or has he always been a bit ‘off piste’?
Just wondering if this is part of a pattern of difficulties in his life, or a recent deviation from the norm.

What's important is what MH problem do you think it is?

It's not enough to say he's doing stupid things so it must be a MH problem.

We are seeking psychiatric help. I am just the kind of person who researches and reads and gathers knowledge and opinion. I don’t know enough about what to call his MH problem. When you read about theee kinds of strange behavior you can always pick out a few symptoms and discard some. Anything from bipolar, to schizophrenia, to early onset dementia. So that’s why I’m hoping someone can share their ideas with me. Obviously if we can get him to a facility where someone can evaluate him that will be first prize. But he doesn’t believe he has any problem, says he is not unhappy and is in control.

He has always been a bit ‘off piste’ and it has been suggested to us that he perhaps has a spectrum disorder. But that is quite in contrast with his childhood where he seems to have been fairly normal and achieved quite well in school. No drugs and drinking. In the years I’ve know him he has struggled with relationships and I think that may be one of the reasons he has sought out internet relationships and has inadvertently become prey for scammers.

He has already achieved dangerous levels, besides for borrowing money from unsavory people, if it wasn’t for us he would be on the street. I mean who sells their bed (their last possession) to give to scammers without thinking about tomorrows meal… He has absolutely no way out of this mess on his own but says everything is ‘fine and he will make a plan’ but all he does is invest his time in the next scheme. Fortunately he has nothing left to sell and so he cannot invest any more money into these ideas. But the time he is investing in it is inconceivable when you have a life to live (and when I say live I mean you somehow have to eat and pay rent at the minimum.)

And yes, unstable job history, unstable financial life in his adult life. But nothing quite as severe as what is going on now.

So if you're researching, you can Google mental health diagnoses and see if any fit. Dementia? Bi-polar? Psychosis? OCD? Gambling addiction?

No-one here will know as we don't know him, you, the family dynamics, his history etc.

But what I'm saying is making stupid decisions and being scammed doesn't necessarily equal a MH problem that can be diagnosed or treated.

It's not unusual at all for gambling addicts or just naive, not that bright people to get stuck in a cycle of "the next opportunity will be the one. The one where I make back all the money I lost and more". And the sunken cost fallacy, "I've already put so much in so can't stop now, it'll be embarrassing/shameful"

If you think it's a MH problem you want investigated, there will have to be other symptoms you can describe.

When you say unstable job and financial life, what do you mean?
When he says he wants to fly to a concert, how? On a plane, or does he think he can fly?
Is he talking fast?
Does he have grandiose delusions?
Is he paranoid?
Has he been depressed before?
Is he looking after himself, as in eating, bathing, laundry, etc?

All of there could indicate some kind of serious mental health crisis. Obviously on the professionals can diagnose after looking at his entire background along with current symptoms.

As a family it would probably be better for us to care for someone who has a diagnosed MH problem than a person who is just reckless and naive and has no survival instinct. I wonder how many homeless people have undiagnosed MH problems that have resulted in them being on the street? That is where this is going to end up if we do not do something.

I have mentioned other symptoms. Coldplay? Not here and no way that he is going to be paying for a flight to go and see them. Just not possible.

He has previously fallen in love with a girl on the internet who told him that she is one of two people to hold a certain credit card… the other being Oprah Winfrey. Try and get him to put some logic to that and he gets very cross and defensive with you.

Could it be learning disability? Did he get any qualifications at school?

That’s autism
my son would be exactly the same if he lived alone

He has had a disagreement with every employer he has worked for.
He has not held down a relationship since I’ve known him and had had various internet girlfriends where I think he can be whoever he chooses to be.
He is going to buy and air ticket to fly. He doesn’t even have enough money for a load of bread. But the money will come ‘tomorrow’
Grandiose Delusiona? He certainly believes that we know nothing about life and working hard is for the birds when there is quick easy money to be made in these scams. He thinks that if he wanted to get a job he could as a manager of some sort of big company.
is he looking after himself? He is obese and always looks sloppy. But I believe he showers once a day. He is not physically healthy and probably doesn’t see his true reflection.
he seems too confident and sure about what he is doing to be depressed

He is 52 years old by the way. Not a youngster.

What’s your sibling’s take on the situation? You refer to him as your BIL so I’m assuming that they’re together.

This must be having a terrible effect on your sibling, how are they coping?

Does your BIL have any family on his side who could also help?

My husbands brother.
He is devastated at being solely responsible for someone who keeps making such terrible life choices.
No living parents and no other siblings.

It definitely sounds like something and could well be more than one mental health condition.
I hope someone is able to help him soon as it sounds really difficult for you.

You still haven't given us an indication of what kind of job he does or his qualifications. If he's mopping up with no qualifications vs running the IT system, having completed a degree it will give a clearer picture of his general functioning day to day.

He didn’t do any formal education after school. He has been involved in a variety of roles from counter sales person to more recently a workshop manager. Certainly not qualified in anything in particular.
Employment has always ended with a disagreement with his employer where obviously he is right and they are wrong.

PS we also don’t live in the UK. We live in a country where unemployment exceeds 40%. You don’t just walk out of jobs and they don’t just fall out the sky when you are unemployed.

It sounds like Bipolar to me. I have It and it runs in my family. Has there been any trauma recently? It’s a spectrum, sometimes the mania/ hypomania can be masked for short periods of time which might be why you’re not seeing the happiness. Obviously only a psychiatrist can confirm.

The money, impulsivity, overconfidence, misplaced optimism are all consistent. A relative of mine also has delusions regarding a particular celebrity. If the NHS won’t see him get him to a private psychiatrist, if you can. I found that the NHS just weren’t able to help me because they only have the resources and seem familiar with the more extreme cases.

Thanks for your response.

Can someone help me understand how much self awareness these people have into their conditions? Whether it’s bipolar or autism does the affected individual know that they are different or that their condition causes them to behave in a socially unaccepted way? Do they have insight or are they blissfully unaware?

Or perhaps not blissfully unaware but rather defensively opposed to the diagnosis?

Also the big flag for me is that most people when they are manic have absolutely no insight. Some even refuse to take their medication because they’re adamant they don’t have bipolar or any issues. Another relative, has been going through this my whole life and still refuses to believe it.