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PTSD overdiagnosed?

80 replies

Grimreapers · 09/12/2022 14:25

I read this article recently
www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/835551#:~:text=Misdiagnosis%20with%20PTSD%20also%20risks,protective%20social%20factors%2C%20they%20warn.

It just got me thinking, how people feel about the diagnosis? Do you feel people throw it around too easily nowadays? Do you feel people self diagnose when in reality although their feelings are valid it's not PTSD.

I just worry it's being diluted, and people won't take it as seriously as it should be taken.

OP posts:
WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 22:59

NewBootsAndRanty · 10/12/2022 22:57

That was debunked decades ago.

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:05

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 22:55

Thats funny as there are no biological markers at all as admitted by those who define the conditions.

You’re wrong
Functional and structural brain abnormalities in posttraumatic stress disorder: A multimodal meta-analysis of neuroimaging studies
The multimodal meta-analysis suggest that PTSD patients showed similar pattern of aberrant resting-state functional brain activity and structure mainly in the amygdala, suggesting that structural deficits might underlie alterations in function. In addition, some regions exhibited only structural abnormalities in PTSD, including the ACC/mPFC, striatum, insula, primary visual, auditory and sensorimotor cortices. Moreover, consistent alterations in PTSD patients across languages may draw attention to the disparity in multi-cultural considerations in psychiatric research and further understanding the neurophysiopathology of PTSD.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36029627/

And there’s more where that came from…

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:07

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 22:59

That was debunked decades ago.

No it wasn’t. The study I posted was from last month and it corroborates and builds on the studies cited on the ptsduk.org website.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:08

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:05

You’re wrong
Functional and structural brain abnormalities in posttraumatic stress disorder: A multimodal meta-analysis of neuroimaging studies
The multimodal meta-analysis suggest that PTSD patients showed similar pattern of aberrant resting-state functional brain activity and structure mainly in the amygdala, suggesting that structural deficits might underlie alterations in function. In addition, some regions exhibited only structural abnormalities in PTSD, including the ACC/mPFC, striatum, insula, primary visual, auditory and sensorimotor cortices. Moreover, consistent alterations in PTSD patients across languages may draw attention to the disparity in multi-cultural considerations in psychiatric research and further understanding the neurophysiopathology of PTSD.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36029627/

And there’s more where that came from…

Ok then tell me which brain chemicals do they test to prove PTSD? How do they test them? (clue, there is no test) What are the normal levels of these chemicals? Is PTSD a high level of these chemicals or a low level? Does medication reduce or increase? Why are these levels not monitored through regular routine chemical testing when you go on medication? How often does your brain chemicals get tested? Why are there not two separate conditions - high chemicals and low chemicals like hypo and hyper?

Facecream · 10/12/2022 23:12

Brain chemicals @WeeWillyWinkie9 ?? Is that how you think mental health disorders are or should be tested for?

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:15

Facecream · 10/12/2022 23:12

Brain chemicals @WeeWillyWinkie9 ?? Is that how you think mental health disorders are or should be tested for?

No that is what the link talked about that was posted as proof. I know that isn't the case. For me I don't think there are any such things as mental health disorders at all.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:17

The reason I don't think 'disorders' don't exist is because they can't be normal and disordered at the same time. We can't say mental health is normal but also say it is abnormal. The two ideas contradict. I think trauma responses are normal and not a disorder.

RamblingEclectic · 10/12/2022 23:18

I don't see how number of diagnosed "dilutes" it. Whether or not people take it seriously has little to do with frequency - I mean, it's now something like 1 in 3 or similar will get cancer in their lifetime, even those with good survival rates are seen as serious and FASD is the most common preventable form of brain damage in kids and it isn't taken seriously by most at all.

I'm not sure if it's thrown around 'too easily' and with the difficulties in access to mental health help, I have more sympathy than anything with those who see that list of symptoms and see themselves in it, but I dislike much of the language around it, particularly the post in post traumatic stress disorder.

This has been discussed by those who work in war zones and with those in abuse situations - it's a very niche, pretty Western idea that people can only discuss trauma /after/ it's all over. That's bullshit and kinda patronizing to have a professional call it PTSD, it feels like it's ignoring the on-going issues. Children who are abused display signs of and some can discuss their trauma dysregulation just fine and deserve better, same with those who've lived decades in war zones. It's also weird that a large complaint about the number using that language is how limited resources are - that's a resource issue that's not going to change anything about how many deal with it.

I'm on the side of the latter professionals in the article - I actually think if we move away from pathologizing/it all needs to be so serious and we talk about it the same way I talk about kids getting emotionally dysregulated - whether or not they have any diagnosis - we could discuss the range from normal reaction to the less healthy, hindering response without having to get into who has the right to talk about their trauma without somehow causing issues for other people. My being diagnosed as a kid only means I had that access that so many don't, in a school district that had the space and time and other resources for the hurt kid I was that many schools don't have.

Yes, long-term trauma dysregulation is not a universal reaction, there is a lot of writing on potential genetic disposition as well as the supportive factors that can ameliorate the likelihood of long-term trauma dysregulation. That's why the diagnostic criteria involves a time frame and for Complex, involves number of events. It's also not a lifetime diagnosis for all, mine has significantly improved by being in a better environment, with the right support and therapeutic care, and in reframing it. I still have bad days, but whether I'd still qualify for official diagnosis - I don't know. Don't really care. I've survived this long with the shite in my head, and I can't see how I'm harming anyone when I discuss that I live with regular trauma dysregulation as a child abuse survivor.

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:21

@WeeWillyWinkie9 not everything affects our “chemicals” (I am guessing you mean blood or spinal fluid markers like hormones or antigens or nutrients or other white blood cells and so on )

Its a bit like a broken bone…there’s no test for “bone chemicals” or medication to change “bone chemicals”….that’s not how you diagnose a broken bone.

With PTSD and other disorders of this ilk, the brain is literally broken in some way. The brains structure is changed. The neural pathways and activity centres don’t react the way they should to stimuli. Now like a bone, the brain is somewhat plastic and can heal, but also like a bone, analysis will always show where the break was and the overlay of healing on top.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:27

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:21

@WeeWillyWinkie9 not everything affects our “chemicals” (I am guessing you mean blood or spinal fluid markers like hormones or antigens or nutrients or other white blood cells and so on )

Its a bit like a broken bone…there’s no test for “bone chemicals” or medication to change “bone chemicals”….that’s not how you diagnose a broken bone.

With PTSD and other disorders of this ilk, the brain is literally broken in some way. The brains structure is changed. The neural pathways and activity centres don’t react the way they should to stimuli. Now like a bone, the brain is somewhat plastic and can heal, but also like a bone, analysis will always show where the break was and the overlay of healing on top.

No not at all, I don't mean anything. The people who actually made up the condition admit there is no biology behind the condition at all. No I think that trauma causes reactions in people and it is normal and I don't believe in the medical model of mental health as those who are in charge of the labels admit this is the case and that there is no biology behind it. I mean explain the biology behind battered woman syndrome? Wandering womb syndrome? All admitted to be made up by the very people who put together the diagnostic manual.

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:28

@RamblingEclectic
I have no issue with anyone discussing their trauma or saying they suffer from it to whatever degree they do. I only think that statements like “I have PTSD” or “x gave me PTSD” should be reserved for those with a diagnosis.

If one thinks they have PTSD and have no diagnosis, it’s appropriate to say “I suspect I have PTSD” or similar. If one is questioning, then frame it as a question “Could I have PTSD?”

It’s also fine to say “I have post-traumatic stress (PTS)” when you have no diagnosis because that’s accurate as well.

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:32

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:27

No not at all, I don't mean anything. The people who actually made up the condition admit there is no biology behind the condition at all. No I think that trauma causes reactions in people and it is normal and I don't believe in the medical model of mental health as those who are in charge of the labels admit this is the case and that there is no biology behind it. I mean explain the biology behind battered woman syndrome? Wandering womb syndrome? All admitted to be made up by the very people who put together the diagnostic manual.

You do realise that the people who first identified PTSD did this over a century ago? And that science has moved on from diagnosing based on observation to finding real biological differences?

I mean, after WWI when PTSD was first identified we did not even have antibiotics. We thought it was impossible to launch objects into space or go to the moon. We couldn’t freeze embryos without killing them. We had no cancer treatment at all and didn’t know that viruses cause some cancers…

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:36

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:32

You do realise that the people who first identified PTSD did this over a century ago? And that science has moved on from diagnosing based on observation to finding real biological differences?

I mean, after WWI when PTSD was first identified we did not even have antibiotics. We thought it was impossible to launch objects into space or go to the moon. We couldn’t freeze embryos without killing them. We had no cancer treatment at all and didn’t know that viruses cause some cancers…

Mental health is the only area where the science has not moved anywhere in 100 years. The manual is constructed in the same way it always has been, on a voting system. They each suggest new conditions and they vote to include them, no science needed. I mean when you look at schizophrenia and where that originated is disgusting and still continuing to this day.

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:42

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:36

Mental health is the only area where the science has not moved anywhere in 100 years. The manual is constructed in the same way it always has been, on a voting system. They each suggest new conditions and they vote to include them, no science needed. I mean when you look at schizophrenia and where that originated is disgusting and still continuing to this day.

That’s not even remotely true. If this were 100yrs ago, I’d be in a mental asylum and probably electro-shocked to death or a vegetative state by now.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:46

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:42

That’s not even remotely true. If this were 100yrs ago, I’d be in a mental asylum and probably electro-shocked to death or a vegetative state by now.

They still use electro shock today and cause such issues with it.

lifeinthehills · 10/12/2022 23:48

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:42

That’s not even remotely true. If this were 100yrs ago, I’d be in a mental asylum and probably electro-shocked to death or a vegetative state by now.

I have to agree. Mental health has moved a lot. That's why there have been revisions, a recognition that the manuals can't necessarily be applied cross culturally, developments in epigenetics and genetic studies into these conditions. There's been a lot of movement.

I'm qualified enough to say I have PTSD, even if I refuse to have it diagnosed. That's because I can hide it most of the time. If I couldn't, then it would be an issue that I'd need to get diagnosed and addressed. It's a disorder because it does affect my functioning. I'm happy to accept that and adapt though.

lifeinthehills · 10/12/2022 23:49

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 22:55

Thats funny as there are no biological markers at all as admitted by those who define the conditions.

Mental health conditions can show on MRIs. Plenty of studies into that.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:49

There have been studies but that doesn't mean the field has moved anywhere. It began as a mean to oppress and still does.

lifeinthehills · 10/12/2022 23:49

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:46

They still use electro shock today and cause such issues with it.

Line of last resort for resistant depression. And can work. TMS is more common now.

lifeinthehills · 10/12/2022 23:51

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:49

There have been studies but that doesn't mean the field has moved anywhere. It began as a mean to oppress and still does.

Funny, because I've only seen people try to help people gain independence and live as full lives as they can.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:51

lifeinthehills · 10/12/2022 23:49

Line of last resort for resistant depression. And can work. TMS is more common now.

No the last line is one of telling them to die now.

lifeinthehills · 10/12/2022 23:52

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:51

No the last line is one of telling them to die now.

Never ever heard or seen that.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:53

lifeinthehills · 10/12/2022 23:51

Funny, because I've only seen people try to help people gain independence and live as full lives as they can.

Try to help by telling them by telling them they have a made up condition that oppresses them and prevents them from many other things? Sadly not. If they wanted that they wouldn't do what they do to them, they would treat trauma like we do in animals and help them instead of labelling.

Onnabugeisha · 10/12/2022 23:56

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:49

There have been studies but that doesn't mean the field has moved anywhere. It began as a mean to oppress and still does.

Really? Before PTSD was recognised as a condition- and it was first recognised in combat veterans…they considered sufferers to be cowards and executed them by firing squad or hanging.

So, all in all, I think having a label made up for PTSD has been the opposite of oppression. It’s given sufferers the right to accommodation and treatment because it’s not a choice.

So no label of PTSD= execution by firing squad or hanging
Label of PTSD= treatment by doctors and support for your disability

Now mental health provision isn’t perfect and this is an ableist society, but having the label of PTSD has reduced oppression.

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 10/12/2022 23:56

lifeinthehills · 10/12/2022 23:52

Never ever heard or seen that.

The MAid Programme.