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Please listen- I keep shouting at my tiny baby

40 replies

pendulum · 04/12/2007 13:42

This is my first post in this topic, I am just desperate to get a few things off my chest and cannot talk to anyone in RL.

My DD2 is 9 weeks and I have feelings of real anger towards her. She screams all evening and cannot get herself to sleep in the daytime without being held. If I put her down asleep she wakes after five minutes. Much of the time I cannot even put her down awake (e.g. to go to the loo or eat a snadwich) without her kicking off. Neither is she always happy in my arms, during her crying jags she hit me and rakes my face with her nails. She is exclusively BFed but gets terrible wind. I am never sure whether she is crying because overtired, so should be put down and encouraged to sleep, or because she has a pain and should be picked up and burped. I am going around in circles second guessing myself while she gets more and more worked up. This has been going on since 9am when she first started yawning and she has only just dropped off. I know this measn she will be a nightmare this evening.

I know many babies are like this, indeed my DD1 was similar (I felt like this with her too). But I'm not sure all mothers feel like I do. It's like having someone chained to me and shouting at me that I am crap. My nerves are shredded by the incessant crying and I have shouted at her a number of times in the last few days. I have no idea what she wants me to do at any one moment, she is like a riddle with no answer. I do feel a rush of love when she smiles and whenever anyone takes her away for an hour or so I feel panicky and want hher back. But I am worried that I can't seem to control my anger and frustration and can't see a path through this. This sounds totally ridiculous, but I think I am scared of my baby.

To cap it all my best friend is desperately TTC her first and has had two failed IVF cycles. I feel so ungrateful and guilty and know that she could look after a baby much better than I can at the moment.

Not really expecting any advice, but just grateful for opportunity to say the unsayable.

thanks
p

OP posts:
onepieceoflollipop · 04/12/2007 14:43

I'm absolutely sure you haven't offended anyone. I am a CPN and have had depression myself (but not pnd).

I have worked with lots of women with pnd who describe similar feelings to you. However I would NEVER try and diagnose you or anyone else just on the basis of your comments on mumsnet. If I saw you in real life I would spend an hour or more assessing how things are with you, and working out the best plan that you are happy with.

Making it "official" can be a bit scary, but at the same time a relief. As a professional I am not shocked by what you say re the shouting etc. One thing I would say is don't listen to "well meaning" friends or relatives who may have strong opinions on ADs and related subjects. Stick with supportive people, either on mumsnet, in real life or professionals. It's surprising how some people have no idea what it's like yet think they know it all about medication etc.

I hope that you find someone that you are able to talk to in real life and get the support you need. Depression is awful - and I can only guess that pnd is signficantly worse than depression at other times. Sending you a hug and hoping you feel a little bit better soon - it's a gradual process.

BeeWiseMen · 04/12/2007 14:46

there's nothing shameful in finding going back to work makes you feel better. Looking after a baby is hard, and often very dull, work. The baby cannot thank you when you get something right, only cry when something is wrong. At work, you are with adults who (hopefully) respect you and are able to articulate want they want you to do and thank you when you do it.

Your GP or one of the other doctors at the surgery would I'm sure be very sympathetic. They will have helped hundreds of women who feel exactly like you. It is up to you whether you want to go on ADs or seek counselling. Nobody can force you to do either. Perhaps someone else knows better than me, but nothing you've described would require the intervention of social services. Truly. If social services took away babies because their mothers lost their tempers or felt resentful from time to time, then there wouldn't be a child in the country still living with its natural parents.

You are living with a baby which barely sleeps, cries all day and I'm guessing feeds frequently and for long periods. That is exhausting and exhaustion makes you short-tempered, tearful and confused. Your GP may also be able to suggest some things that would help the baby, eg colic remedies.

Be in no doubt you are a good mother. You are admitting there is something wrong and asking for help which takes huge courage, even on an anonymous board like this. You are afraid that you are not giving your baby what she needs and you are afraid that she will be taken away from you. Despite everything that is happening to you, you are still exclusively breastfeeding your DD while most women have given up by 6 weeks. It is absolutely clear to everybody reading your posts that you love your daughter.

There is nothing abnormal about you or anything you feel, honestly. I gave up bf after 5 days, I have a very easy to look after baby who barely cries and sleeps for at least 10 hours a night. I still spent half an hour crying last night because I was tired and felt I've been getting everything to do with my DD wrong lately. We all get like this. You just need some support and advice from your doctor while you live through this difficult time. And from the good women of mumsnet obviously

Sam100 · 04/12/2007 14:54

I know its hard to start the conversation with yor dh, or a family member or friend or the doctor. Maybe you could print out this thread and show it to them so that you don't have to say it out loud?

Sam100 · 04/12/2007 14:56

Btw - for the wind - have you tried Infacol - went through gallons of this with dd2. Not sure if it works or if they just eventually grow out of the colic/wind thing - but seemed to calm her down as she knew she would get fed not long after! Had bottles everywhere as worried about running out!

BananaPudding · 04/12/2007 15:05

DD and I had the same experience you are having. It was so, so hard, the non-stop screaming and flailing. The nurse had advised me to drink lots of orange juice, eat yogurt every day to prevent thrush etc. After six weeks of agony-inducing screaming, I was recommended this elimination diet. I know it sounds like a royal pain to do, but honestly it saved my sanity and made dd so much happier (and quieter). This diet worked for her, and the AD's worked for me. Also, I got a sling which we both loved! You can do anything with the baby in a sling.

This article is from www.askdrsears.com. I copied it because you'd have to do this whole registering business and I thought you'd be more likely to read it if you didn't have to bother with all that!

THE ELIMINATION DIET
This is a diet that Martha recommends in her lactation-counseling practice whenever she suspects a baby's colic could be caused by sensitivities to food in a breastfeeding mother's diet. This diet was developed by William G. Crook, M.D. (Detecting Your Hidden Allergies, Jackson, Tenn: Professional Books, 1987), and it has several variations, depending on how bothersome the symptoms are. The elimination diet we use is based on eating the least allergenic food in each of the food groups. You may need to do this for two weeks since it can take this long for the offending foods to get out of your system and baby's system. Here is the variation we find helps mothers get the quickest, surest relief for their hurting babies:

Eat only range-fed turkey and lamb, baked or boiled potatoes and sweet potatoes (with salt and pepper only), rice and millet as your only grain, cooked green and yellow squash for your vegetable, and for fruit, pears and diluted pear juice. Drink a rice-based beverage drink in place of milk on cereal or in cooking. Do not yet use soy beverage. Take a calcium supplement. (Rice products, such as rice beverage, rice-based frozen dessert, rice pasta, rice flour, and millet are available in nutrition stores.)

At the end of two weeks, or sooner if the colic subsides, gradually add other foods to your diet, one every four days, starting with those less commonly allergenic (such as sunflower seeds, carrots, beets, salmon, oats, grapes, avocado, peaches). Wait a while before you add wheat, beef, eggs, nuts, and corn. Avoid for the longest time dairy products, soy products, peanuts, shellfish, coffee, tea, colas and other beverages containing caffeine, chocolate, gas-producing vegetables (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, onions, green peppers), tomatoes, and citrus fruits. Vegetables and fruits are often tolerated in cooked form sooner than in raw form.

Keep a record of the foods you eat and the problem behaviors; try to correlate baby's fussy spells with what you've eaten in the past day or so. This gives you a clearer perspective and helps you stay objective, which is hard to do when you are sleep-deprived. This is especially important when baby has stayed fussy past four months of age.
Do not starve yourself. It may feel, the first day or two, as though there is not enough for you to eat; but you can still eat a nutritious diet. You just have to eat more of the "safe" types of food until you determine what your baby can tolerate.

Colicky babies usually respond to mother's diet changes dramatically and quickly, often within one or two days. With the older baby who is nightwaking, you may have to wait longer to see results. Typically, mothers will find that when they change their diet baby may sleep better for a few nights only to start waking again a lot for a few days or a week or so, at which time the sleep again improves. It's important to know this so that you will not be tempted to give up when you think "it's not working."

Older babies are often less sensitive to fruits and vegetables in mom's diet (and their own), so at this stage we recommend mainly protein elimination, namely dairy, beef, eggs, chicken, shellfish, soy, corn, wheat, and peanuts (plus any other foods you have learned bother baby). Research has shown that some foreign proteins get into some mothers' milk more than others', and of course some babies are more sensitive to these proteins than other babies.

jorange5 · 04/12/2007 15:14

with regard to the wind, crying and not sleeping - a sling really helped me out when we had that situation. They might cry at first but a bit of walking about in it seems to sooth away wind and help sleep. Just an idea

pendulum · 04/12/2007 15:23

BananaPudding- that's some diet! Thanks for cutting and pasting for me.
I do like lamb and sweet potatoes... but not three meals a day! What did you eat for breakfast? More importantly, what foods did you identify as causing the colic? I am already avoiding the notorious green veg (shame, because I love them!) Had some kale in a moment of bloody-mindedness a couple of weeks ago and practically had to reel DD off the ceiling the nest day....

Sam100, I used Infacol with DD1 and was never sure if it worked or not. Have been faffing about with Colief (difficult when BF'eeding) but might give Infacol another go.

So good to know others have been through this too. Thanks to everyone who is posting, especially since I guess many of you must be going through similar stuff...?

OP posts:
Scotia · 04/12/2007 15:32

Pendulum, I identify with everything you have said in your op. I didn't suffer from PND, but the sleep deprivation, coupled with a baby who would not be put down, was so exhausting and I did shout at him to please shut up. Baby massage might help with the colic, or a bath (I used to have to put my ds in the bath at 2am many a night - instant calm).You are not crap, I promise you.

BeeWiseMen · 04/12/2007 15:35

also some people I know swear by cranial osteopathy for a windy, colicky, unhappy baby (especially if the birth was bit rough) tho I guess it's not cheap. Just something else for you to consider.

pendulum · 04/12/2007 16:02

BeeWiseMen, good suggestion- she has had 3 sessions of CO (like you I had heard wonder stories). May have had a small effect but sadly not enough to justify the cost of further sessions.

ChubbyScotsBurd- good idea re: timing the crying/ time to settle. I sometimes wonder if it seems much longer than it really is. Also like the 'calm parent veneer' idea, will practise that. I did admit to DH last night that having the baby monitor on helps me to moderate my tone/ language when dashing upstairs for the nth time... similar concept!

Will also persevere with the carrier/ sling when DD is really worked up. But I think in order really to feel better I need to see some form of progress towards my end goal i.e. DD going down happily for naps in her cot. I do feel that carrying her will delay that process and make it more difficult- and sadly I know I will not be able to carry her when I go back to work in 6 mths.

Ultimately I think (hope) she will grow out of it with time. DD1 did after around 4 months and that's when I really fell in love with her as a person, rather than just feeling the fundamental mother love if that makes sense. Sadly her early days are hidden from me under a big black cloud- I can remember hardly any of her first 3 months so cannot draw on my experience with her. If DD2 is still colicky after xmas I will go drastic on the food elimination front (will have to wait until Jan though... my MIL would give short shrift to an order for rice-based beverages!)

Sorry that I haven't thanked everyone personally, but I have read every post and can't tell you how much you have all helped this afternoon. xx

OP posts:
KPat · 04/12/2007 20:35

Hi there. You asked about the chain of events with admitting feeling mood-crap to your HV or GP...and no-one seems to have answered that so I'll pitch in. I had PND with my DS1 (now nearly 4) and have it now again with DS2 now 4 months. I am medically trained and used to work in Perinatal Psychiatry (mother and baby mental health) so I thought it would never happen to me. Oh well.....it took me a long time to recognise it first time because I didn't feel sad and depressed as much as very fragile and highly irritable. And there are reasons to explain all of it (sleep-deprivation, breast-feeding-exhaustion etc.) so you think it can't be depression. I had a great HV who was really supportive. GPs can be reluctant to actively treat PND - definitely see a woman GP. I had to go on anti-depressant meds (resisted it for ages because of being ani-meds and because of BF) and they helped a lot, so much so that I regretted not having started them sooner (only started them at 7 months post partum). The whole family worked so much better when I stopped feeling as fragile and broken as a ragged cobweb. This time I've been aware of the niggling irritability and over-sensitiveness from the very beginning, and DH has pointed it out too. I have reached out for help much sooner and I am not prepared to suffer in silence for so long this time. It can be a relief to get it sorted if it is PND. Do not let the medical services dismiss it and make you soldier on alone. If you feel like they haven't heard you, go back again. Most PND resolves itself by a year to 18 months but that's a year to 18 months of your baby having a mum who is depressed, which isn't great. Soooo don't be afraid to ask for help and admit what's going on. If it's nothing it's nothing; if it's PND better to get it treated. You can read more of my story of baby-related depression at www.pregnancy-depression-help.com

dinny · 04/12/2007 20:43

Hi, Pendulum, poor you, you sound shattered. my dd1 cried and wailed and I found it so hard - you really are not alone in feeling frustrated and down in the face of a crying baby. it's probably really obvious and you have tried it, but I found the only way I could keep dd from crying was to have her in a sling most of the time. don't know if this is practical for you, or something you have tried but it really really helped me get through.

she was in for for about 6 months constantly really.

all the best, Dinny x

scottishmum007 · 04/12/2007 21:10

i've already posted this on another thread by i feel this is more appropriate this one. I'm sorry you are feeling this way but like a few other posters here I feel much teh same as you at times with my DS (8 months old). i can remember when he was a few weeks old he wouldn't stop crying after i'd change his nappy, fed him, winded him and i thought 'what the hell does he want now, i've done everything to make sure he's ok!!'and i screamed, WHATS WRONG WITH YOU (like he could possibly answer me!) and i'd get worked up and then i thought ' don't think he likes me'. i honestly thought that. but it's ridiculous ofcourse, how can your baby not like you?? when you feel like way though, it seems like he/she doesn't like you, they just won't stop crying.
i've disclosed this to dh and did also admit to him that i have difficulties coping sometimes. can you maybe explain to your hubby that you're finding it hard at times and need more support as well as seeing GP? I need to go and see mine, I keep sweeping it under the carpet as soon as I have a good day.

ChubbyScotsBurd · 04/12/2007 22:52

pendulum, I too have to go back to work (in only 2 months!) but if you need to carry her then I would suggest you consider doing so. My DS is 4 months and is slowly improving towards being put-downable. I genuinely don't think working on getting him in the cot in the earlier days would have speeded the process, but it would have meant every day contained a battle and that was more than I could take.

It's entirely your decision how you parent your child but I definitely felt better when I gave in and went with what he wanted - in 6 months time you will be dealing with a very different baby and one who is more able to understand and adapt, so today's problems are likely to have been replaced by new worries! If you feel like things are difficult now then I really advise you to do everything you can to make it easier and to avoid 'confrontation' with your baby. It might not suit you but as I say, it was my way of coping with DS when things were tough.

pendulum · 10/01/2008 13:37

Just wanted to do a quick update on this oldish thread of mine, both to say thanks again for the support and because it might reassure anyone else in the same situation (i.e. non-stop crying baby)

DD is now 15 weeks and we have made real progress. She is able to sleep in the day in her cot and this has put an end to most of the crying jags (obviously it also gives me a breather and chance to do other things). Around 12 weeks (just before Xmas I took her to the doctor in tears and said, "help, my baby won't stop screaming, I think she's got reflux/ lactose problems/ colic". The doc (straight-talking South African lady) took one look at her and said "she's fine but you're a mess. Put her in her cot, walk away, leave her for 10 minutes." Luckily this coincided with DH (teacher) breaking up for school hols since I could not have done it unsupported, but together we resolved to try this and it worked!

My theory (FWIW) is that she had developed out of her period of intense clinginess and needing to sleep on me, and was finding my presence a distraction instead of a comfort, but had not learned to sleep alone.

Anyway, I am feeling almost rational and sane again and am v glad I don't have to go along the drastic dietary changes route. Hopefully the hours of screaming are behind us but I just wanted to thank everyone who listened and responded to my OP.

p

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