long-term depression - is there any "cure" or am i stuck with it for life? It feels like a personality trait from which I can't escape

[MissChief]

currently feeling rather desperate tbh. Have had lots of v kind, helpful messages on here but am now confronting the fact that I've had depression on and off since I was a teenager, 2 decades ago. I tend towards it easily and at times rapidly. I'm trying to sort myself out at the moment rather than taking ADs and am dosing myself up with SJW and high EPA fish oil. I've also recenytly started CBT but am not wholly convinced so far. I honestly don't see how decades of belieft can be turnbed aorund in a few sessions. I don't feel this is possible. I feel without hope, currently and feel only extremely rare fleeting moments of enjoyment., Overall though atm I just can't see my way through, not in any permanent long=-term way, anyway. It's affecting all our lives hugely (as dh put it, he nrly lost his job last time I was like this), thwe dcs see me crying and shouting several times a day and I can scarcely sleep at night. I feel hopeless. I realise how self-indulgent this all sounds but I feel myself sinking and don't know how to stop it.

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you're making between SJW and ADs. The reason SJW works (and I too have read lots of convincing evidence that it does work well for many people) is that it is a natural source of an MAO (monoamine oxidase) inhibitor. Why is that so much more palatable than an MAO inhibitor, which will be a chemically very similar or indistinguishable molecule, which is made in a lab?

I'm sorry if my post last night was a bit intense, I've had PMT for the last 3 days and I get very anxious and wired.

I have made a note of the 'cheesy' fg handbook.

Re. SJW, I've read that it works as an inhibitor of reuptake of both Seratonin and Dopamine with a bit of a MAOI effect thrown in. But there is research ongoing to find out more about its effects.

The key for me is that I have read that SJW has fewer and less severe side effects than prescription drugs but can work just as well, even for moderate to severe depression. I've yet to see if it works for me although I am feeling a bit better.

I think what has also put me off is someone who I know who can't get off Seroxat. It helps him a lot. He can't function properly without it but I suppose that is what scares me. I wouldn't want to get dependent on a drug if I could help it. I know Seroxat is a special case and is not prescribed much any more. The other thing about him is that he is kind of 'detached' from emotion. He seems ok, functioning, even happy but, somehow, he's not really all there IYKWIM. If you told him your dog had died, for e.g., he'd be like: 'oh yeah? ok, well sorry about that.' you feel like saying 'once more with feeling!' But the truth is he is in his own little world.

As I have been mildly depressed and anxious almost all my life, I want to find something or a combination of things that can help me on an ongoing permanent basis. I don't want to be on prescription antidepressants permanently.

It's encouraging to read that some people who have posted have somehow overcome depression and no longer suffer from it, even if they suffered for a long time previously and saw no hope of things ever getting better.

I hope MissChief has had a better day today.

here's the link CHEESY photo but apparantly very useful

hi resigned, thanks for your kind wishes. It was a better day though a bit foggy around my head. I'm with you on the reasons for tkaing SJW instead of ADs, for now at least. I didn't like the sound of their side-effects. My doc was actually quite postive about SJW and supported my choice to go that route first. I will review this if I feel I'm not any better within a couple of weeks.
Cheesy photo indeed, jeangenie! I;ve got that book on order as a couple of people on hear have sworn by it. I do find it hard to pick out the sensible bits in these very American books though. I ust get sidetracked and put off by the v different tone. I've also just bought a great book, IMO and a British one - "Overcoming Depression & low mood" by Chris Williams. V sensible, not evangelical and lots of practical CBT -type exercises. It's had tons of input from NHS Scotland and there's a free website to go with it - www.livinglifetothefull.com

Hope it can help someone else.

on "here", even God and I used to be a great speller. Too much fog

Hi MissChief
I've had a quick look at the website and it looks promising - will have a closer look when I've got time.

I realise in hindsight that some of my comments might, in a roundabout way, seem disrespectful to people who are on antidepressants and I'm sorry if that is the case. I know a lot of people would prefer not to have to take them and I'm sure noone takes the decision lightly. Perhaps my problems are mild enough that I've got a choice where some people haven't. You only have to read the threads here to know that people benefit from taking these meds. Anyway, at least we are all trying to get help, one way or another.

i tried sjw for ages, pre-psychiatric assessment, with no effect. Most people had no idea there was anything wrong with me, but I shook all the time and inside was in constant terror and misery. i completely didn't want ADs for all the reasons you two are feeling. Eventually i ran out of reasons not to try them and had such respect for my phsychiatrist that i took them. I had absolutely no side effects (possibly because he introduced them in tiny increments, starting with a liquid formulation of 5mg a day) and complete turn around of feelings. I was so worried that i would become some kind of medicated zombie, or a different person, but NO NO NO i didn't. i'm just really happy, but not 'neutered' or anything, i promise! i wish you could be on the other side of where you are now...good luck and be brave (take them take them take them!!!!)

Podpast - I think I am feeling a little bit better on SJW. I seem to be less upset and defeatist about everyday things going wrong like my car breaking down. I will probably give it a few more weeks to make sure I get the maximum effect. It's good to hear about other people's positive experiences though, especially when you understand how reluctant someone was to go on the meds and yet it really helped them. I'm not totally convinced but you never know.

there's a bit more to my tale now - over school hols i kept forgetting to take my prozac so eventually decided to stop completely, and see what happened. I was pretty confident i'd carry on being fine. but guess what - yesterday, out of the blue, i found the dark side had returned - i feel panicky, trapped, scared and can't stop crying. i'm really terrified that this means that untreated, i'm doomed, but at least i know i can go back to the psych and get more... i'm going to give it another week and see if it recedes first. also i'm going to keep up my new exercise regime as that's supposed to help seratonin i think.

Hi Podpast. Sorry about the dark side returning. You say you kept forgetting to take the tablets, did you withdraw slowly from them? Was there a delayed effect?

If the Prozac was working, and you have a few bad days in a row, I would go back on it. There are loads of things you can try which may help on their own or alongside the meds. These include exercise, as you say, but it might help to go back on the meds while you get into a routine with the other things, just to get you started. Omega 3 oils and B Vitamins are supposed to help with depression. I've got Patrick Holford's 'Optimum nutrition for the mind' book which has loads of advice about supplements to help with depression. If you look at some of the threads in the last month or so, there are links to CBT web-sites with free online interactive programmes.

I think this is a good site too:
www.nomorepanic.co.uk/
I got it off one of the threads here.

I know it didn't work for you but I do think the SJW is helping me a bit. I've had a rough week with loads of practical disasters involving cars and plumbers and estate agents and I've managed to cope with it all instead of collapsing in a heap in a corner like I often do.

Hope you are ok. Take care.