Talk to me about adult ADHD

[Thefitfatty]

Just been diagnosed, and started on Concerta. Anyone else not figure out they were ADHD till they were in their mid-30's? Can anyone tell me about their side effects? Or what I can expect now that I'm on meds?

[Thecatgotmytongue]

Does anyone else count in their head all the time whilst walking? I can't seem to stop myself doing this

I can't make decisions. I hate HAVING to do anything, it has to be of my own free will. I can't make phone calls most of the time and can't deal with unplanned situations, like people turning up unexpectedly, or dealing with visitors like engineers, etc. I get caught up in the internet for hours looking for something I remember from my childhood ... I'll decide I need a new item and research for four hours, then buy three different ones ... That I don't need I eat and eat and eat .. I'm not hungry, just can't stop. I get upset very easily and cry immediately then. I fidget too, my feet are constantly tapping to some non present music and I can't sit still, I'm never comfortable for long.

[BertieBotts]

YY to thinking I had an addictive personality. I've been "addicted" to various games, the internet (still ongoing!), terrible relationships, caffeine, nicotine, but actually when I get bored of these things I just stop with absolutely no trouble at all, well, except for the bad relationships. (Happily married now though.) I've started and stopped smoking several times since I was 18. Currently haven't smoked at all for 18 months. V occasionally miss it, most of the time nope.

It makes so much more sense when I look at it in ADHD terms because it's never been about needing that one particular thing, it's just always about choosing the path which leads to immediate reward and that one thing is a known quantity which gives a good immediate reward.

A good illustration of this - it's obviously more complicated than this but to simplify it down. Our brains have ways of prioritising what's important to us in terms of short and long term gain. A neurotypical brain is able to arrange these goals effectively. So let's say that you decide you want to lose weight, but you are offered a slice of cake.

If you imagine the different choices as being either like a billboard or like a voice talking to you. The "right now reward" is to eat the cake. This billboard or voice might be loud and big and flashy if it's your favourite kind of cake, if you are hungry, if you have a sweet tooth. But on the other hand is the "Later reward" of losing weight and feeling healthier. A neurotypical brain would make this message louder and flashier if the person cares about it a lot. So the neurotypical person when faced with a decision likely has two billboards/voices competing in their head telling them both to eat the cake and to leave the cake. It might be a hard choice but it's definitely doable to stick to the option for later, unless the later board is diminished for some reason, like right now they don't care about later, or unless the right now board is extra bright, like perhaps they are really hungry or they are feeling sad and they know cake will improve their mood. And if the later option is especially important to them, like say they want to lose weight for a big event like a wedding, or because their doctor has told them that it's important, then the "GET THIN" billboard might be extra flashy and important and easily overpower the "EAT CAKE" one.

With ADHD the "Later reward" billboard or megaphone is always faulty. So if you look at your "EAT CAKE" billboard it might be small - if you don't like this kind of cake, if you're not really a cake person, if you are already full. Or it might be medium or big and flashy if you love cake (etc). The same as the NT person's right-now billboard. But the "GET THIN" billboard is always diminished. It doesn't make a difference how much you want to get thin, it doesn't matter if your doctor has pleaded with you that you are damaging your health, it doesn't matter if you have a deadline to lose weight by. This billboard will always be small unless the consequences are something you know will unavoidably happen and that you really don't like. For example, I can always easily avoid eating cheese even though pizza looks delicious and cheesecake as well, because I know for a fact it gives me D&V for 2 days. But I have been known to eat other kinds of food until it physically made me feel sick, because that doesn't register as an unavoidable outcome.

With ADHD to choose a later reward over an immediate one, the immediate one needs to not be that interesting to you OR the consequences of ignoring the later reward somewhat terrible and definite. Otherwise it's just really hard because your brain won't emphasise the later reward for you. You can know 100% what your goal is and why you want to achieve it but you'll always be thwarted because in your head it only ever appears in small print whereas the right now is there in 100-point red illuminated type.

Addiction is slightly different - with addiction the billboard advertising the addicted substance is just enormous and overrides everything so that the addict believes getting their substance/fix of choice is more important than any other thing. An addict for example would just go ahead and steal the "cake" from someone else's plate whereas ADHD does usually have you placing social rules higher than that, especially if it's obvious; you might be unable to resist temptation if you were alone in a public place with some food that didn't seem to really belong to anyone and nobody would find out it's you, but your craving would never be strong enough that it would make you reach across and take it off someone else's plate right in front of their nose, not past young childhood, anyway.

I need to illustrate this with cartoons or something...

[BertieBotts]

Of course replace cake with anything that applies to you re short term vs long term. If that's procrastinating over work/study, if it's lying in vs getting up, if it's smoking vs not smoking, impulse buying vs saving, driving vs walking. Anything!

[StrictlyMumDancing]

bertie that's awesome. That's precisely how my brain functions. Oddly even with the diet, I couldn't do it until my health got to such a bad state. The long term reward billboard was so far into the distance there was no point. Thankfully the 'you want a drink and you can't on all those painkillers' billboard took over and overrode it. Same with lactose, though sometimes I just eat the damn ice cream then spend days crying. Booze is similar, I can happily not drink for ages but if I start I want more than one or two though I know the consequences. It's also doing it as 'you know you need to change gp but you like this one so put it off and you can still see them'. It's so frustrating especially when you know.

[Thecatgotmytongue]

bertie that's awesome and pretty much sums it up for me ... Cake, chocolate, crisps, internet ... Yes games in the past .. I thought I was just too stupid to stop myself

[BertieBotts]

It's not stupid. But that's why it helps to have a kind of visual image for what's going on. It means that you can do more to prevent it. Basically that's either externalising your long term goals - make a 'fitspiration' pinboard for your kitchen , for example, or using a calorie counting app to keep track. Or make it easier to choose the thing you want. Like taking a packed lunch to work instead of buying it and always ending up getting junk to go with it. Or make it harder to do the thing you always fall in the trap of, like just don't have snacks in the house at all.

Sorry to keep using food, it's just an easy example. Also: this stuff is exhausting and it takes so much more energy than just being able to keep and refer to long-term goals in your head, so don't beat yourself up about falling into the traps all the time.

[Natsku]

I really need to clean my house really well this weekend as I have people coming on Tuesday to film me for a documentary but I just can't start. I'm going to have to ask OH for some of his medicine tomorrow so I can do it.

[BertieBotts]

A documentary?! That sounds exciting, what's it about?

Also, don't worry, without meds you'd probably do it on Monday night. Then have no sleep and not have time to shower in the morning and then cry when you see yourself on TV. So I'm sure it's justified.

[Natsku]

Its about my brother.

Nooo I want to do it before Monday night!!

[jorahmormont]

Ooh enjoy filming for the documentary. We did one about being young parents last year, it was pretty fun but stressful.

I've bought a Knock Knock Notepad that is like a little To-Do notepad I got in Waterstones. Hopefully that will help from an organisation point of view a bit. Worth a try.

Bertie what you said about "later rewards" rings so true for me. It's like the middle-to-long distance thinking doesn't happen for me - DP has said for a long time that I'm all about instant gratification, and if I don't get it, I get frustrated and walk away.

[InionEile]

Interesting discussion. I've been mulling over getting tested for ADHD myself recently. I initially started looking into ADHD due to my DS who is very high energy and not that keen on listening or following directions but amazingly when I read the symptoms, they seemed to apply more to me than him . I think he is just 4, whereas I am a grown adult and clearly suffering from major brain fog.

It's always been a problem and I come from a family of introverted dreamy people who are not great at coping with real life. I managed it myself in the past by using endless to-do lists, journaling a lot and relying on my very pragmatic DH to manage some of the more complex organizational stuff. But I do wonder if 'just coping' is enough. I'm currently on a career break that was supposed to be for just 3 years but is rapidly becoming 5 and I can't really face going back to work until I sort this all out.

The idea of getting organized to get out the door and manage 2 kids and do a full-days work on top of laundry, household admin and schedules makes me panic in terror. There must be a better way to do this as these are perfectly normal life tasks that other grown adults know how to do. If I am struggling with basic things, maybe it's worth getting tested... ?

[jorahmormont]

Does anyone else have difficulty with jobs? I am lucky in that I don't have an issue finding and getting jobs really, it's just sticking them out. I worked as a PA which lasted all of four months before I got restless sitting in an office all day and needed to move about and they wouldn't let me so I left. Worked in a supermarket but it was so monotonous so that lasted a month.

I'm in a really good job at the moment - lovely team, lovely customers, well-respected and fairly well-paid, and they don't even seem to mind the fact that I tend to be up on my feet a lot in what is quite a sedentary job. I've been there 5 months which is the longest I've stuck out a job since leaving uni so it is a very very good place to work, and I'm getting restless again. Just wanting to move on, feeling a little trapped there.

I'm starting an OU course in September that should lead into another career eventually but I'm just trying to force myself through this restlessness in the hope it will settle in a month or two. If not I don't know what I'll do, but the more restless I get the more frustrated it makes me and the more mistakes I make because my concentration and focus dips to zero.

I know of quite a few jobs I could apply to that look cool and would pay more but I like my team and going through three jobs in a year isn't going to look great on my CV, especially when I have to try and come up with another reason why I've left that isn't "my attention span becomes non-existent when I've been with a company for over 4 months".

Anyone else have similar issues?

[Natsku]

I've been unemployed for years, now doing two days a week at the red cross as part of an unemployment scheme but its alright there, they don't mind me moving about and fiddling with things and getting restless.

[Natsku]

I fucking cleaned! Except for DD's room, that's a shit tip and if its still a shit tip tomorrow I'm going to start throwing things in the bin

[BertieBotts]

Yes. I wouldn't have said I'm an instant gratification person but actually I am - for example I've always loved singing and music, and since I was about 7 I've tried to learn violin, recorder, guitar, bass, keyboard and I'm back on the guitar again now but until this point, I never really stuck with anything that long because with singing, I can join in and produce something fairly good immediately, but with instruments there is a lot of tedious practising and exercises before you get to play anything good and I've always got bored long before I was any good at them. I'm no good at the guitar yet but I have found myself a strategy of just learning chords so I can sing along and then I've picked up some fingerpicking as well, it's fun. And I'm not doing ANY boring exercises, just songs that I like.

Inion I think it's definitely worth exploring why that is. I think it was one of my conversations with DH (never ending) when I was saying "I don't know how other people do this, it must be easy so what am I missing?" and him saying "You just have to build habits, like brushing your teeth and showering" and I just looked at him and said but I can't remember to brush my teeth or shower. And that was when he said, yeah, that's not normal. You should get it looked at. FWIW, I find it a million times easier to keep up with all the routine stuff when I have less time, bizarrely, because I know that I have to do it by this day or it won't get done. It's when I have the entire week spreading out in front of me and I don't get started on anything because none of it is really urgent.

Jorah apparently this is a very classic symptom. It's not a problem I have personally (I have the opposite where I'll stay stagnant in a situation and not bother to make any changes)

[Thecatgotmytongue]

Same here with jobs ... I can't stay anywhere long, I get bored or fed up.

Daily routine ... Partly I forget to do things that need doing, be it shopping, showering, cleaning my teeth ... Partly I can't be bothered. I try to do it for other people, if it was just for me I wouldn't bother.

[MaximilianNero]

I'm becoming convinced that I have ADHD as well as ASD. I did that test thing and got 6/6 and 9/12. This thread describes so much of what i experience.

I have an addictive type personality...I can be completely obsesed with something, but then a switch will flip and suddenly I will completely lose all interest. I got to Candy Crush over level 1000 and then the switch flipped and I've had no desire to touch it since. If I want to stop something, it has to be cold turkey. To use the cigarette example, I am not one of those people who could cut from 20 to 15 to 10 a day and so on. It's cold turkey or nothing. I had to do that with the lottery most recently. No ability to stick to my spending limit. I constantly get hooked on researching or reading the next thing, and then move on. Never tried recreational drugs though, and never even had a cup of coffee because I hate the taste so much.

I have 4 unfinished projects in my line of sight. No wait, 5

Impulsive....very impulsive purchaser, cannot learn the lessons of previous stupidity. I know I should food shop on a full stomach. I KNOW I should. But I don't. Broken the law on impulse before and then thought 'oh you idiot, why'd you do that??'. Nearly get run over crossing the road because I won't wait for the green man. "ooh, yes, I'll book flights to xyz for next week". My pattern is always to impulsively book something and then have to frantically research to produce a tight plan to avoid extreme ASD anxiety. The sensible person would surely research first (sigh)

Extremely restless and fidgety constantly. Often compelled to get up and start leaping around. Always put that solely down to ASD.

Often miss part of people's sentences, cannot focus on what people are saying for long. Reread book sentences multiple times to take it in.

Mind everywhere. Unless I'm obsessing on something, it's jumping from one thing to the next to the next. It's like something physically pulls my mind onto another focus, I have so little control over it It's not necessarily any other particular thought either, it's maybe just nothing, I just slide out of focus so I'm staring at a wall with no concrete thoughts in my mind. It's this mind-everywhere and inability to concentrate that cause me difficulties work-wise.

Coupled with indecision. For instance, I'm trying to choose a chocolate bar in Tesco. One of two bars. I will stand in that aisle for 10 or 15 entire minutes while I feel vaguely confused and my mind slides everywhere and then back to the chocolate bars but i have no idea which to have and can't squarely focus my mind on the bars for long, and rinse and repeat while I get more and more stressed out. Over a fecking chocolate bar.

Mood swings all the time. Treated for depression before, but actually successfully, no longer clinically depressed, I just get sad mood swings. Very easily frustrated.

I clean only in binges. Housework, cleaning and organisation are all or nothing events. Terrible at doing things that need doing, procrastinator extraordinaire, horrible organisation, require to-do lists to remember things, always misplacing my keys etc in my room and having to tip it upside down.

[Thefitfatty]

Hi Ladies, Had a nice weekend away with the family. I was taking my meds this weekend, but I still found it a bit overwhelming. Too much going on.

Does anyone else have trouble reading maps? Or giving directions?

[unlucky83]

The habits thing - you can develop them - I always look behind when I leave somewhere - hard at first but now it is a habit - I don't have to think about it I just do it. Unless something unusual happens - like nearly missing a bus stop or something. It means that I don't lose things as often as I used to.
I have homes for everything - like keys etc. I hate looking for things -I mean really hate - and I hate losing things too. So I try and consistently put things where they belong - it doesn't always work -so eg my keys will be in my pocket, on my desk or on their hook - I have spent time looking for eg my keys when they are on the hook where they belong....
Actually I always wear something with lots of pockets - either a fleece in winter or a thin jacket thing in summer -always have trousers with pockets - so I don't put things down randomly -they go in my pockets and I empty my pockets on my desk (I work from home)...I might have to go through a couple of 'coat' pockets to find something if I have changed it but I can usually find things quite quickly.
And yes to a massive to do list - I have a to do app (tick tick) and google calendars - and like others I don't always check it regularly. I like google calendar cos it sends me an email reminder - and I have everything on there - like putting bins out and DCs activities...
And yes being able to do mundane things with less time - because you just have to do them - I used to work full time with DC and a partner who worked long hours - things like cleaning and washing got done..and it was less painful - I think cos it was more of a challenge. I force myself to stick to some kind of routine - I really really really don't want to do it but on the whole manage to force myself to - but often I am fighting back tears - I hate it that much.
And yes to distraction - yesterday prime eg. Still unpacking and putting away from holiday...my money belt had started fraying - needed sewing up but it goes away in a box with things like the travel kettle. Best to sew it on the machine - house in chaos but out comes the machine ...while I've got it out I'll do a couple of other sewing/repair jobs... one of which is reline my wash bag (I made it myself it is lined with a thick carrier bag) ...I could simply rip the old liner out and sew in a new one - but actually I'll unpick it all and do it 'properly' - after I've done it I think actually part of the reason it ripped was it is too small for mine and DCs things, I need a bigger one really. Decide to make a new one - it won't take long - take all my material out the bedding box it is stored in to find some - they are all in plastic bags and vac bags etc - decide the box could do with a clear out - it needs hoovering out, and I bought some new material on holiday but I haven't got space for it so it needs a good sort out...leave it all piled up next to the bedding box - go back to sewing. Decide I can't really be bothered to do it any more so keep distracting myself eg I have a kitchen light with stupid decorative plastic discs -every 6 months one will fall off. I have it sat on the side - might as well put it back - but it is a bit greasy -so I'll give it clean first, oh but the others are mucky too - in fact the whole light fitting is - I'll give it a clean too...then at 8pm I started rushing around tidying up and finishing sewing as it was all in chaos ...and defrosting and tidying freezers - I have the meat to do a batch cook but nowhere to put it and the meat is going to go off if I don't cook it today ...I go to get in bed at midnight to find the material from the storage box is still all over everywhere...pile it up to one side to sort out today. I have managed to do two things I really needed to yesterday - the money belt and freezers - rest of it was faff and procrastination...

[PovertyPain]

Wow Unlucky, that last paragraph is me to a tee!

[Thecatgotmytongue]

Maximilian I could have written your post Have the same issues. Obsessing with games ... anything. Spending, impulsive purchases, booking tickets, then having to find a coping strategy ... I'm constantly retracting bids on eBay or cancelling orders because I've spent too much again. Agreeing to do things, then regretting it, canceling.

I'm trying to learn to play guitar, have been for years, and I've tried to learn to play piano too. But I can't stick to practising, need that instant gratification. At the moment I can't even pick up the guitar because I know I can't do it.

[PovertyPain]

Can I ask posters if you have food issues? My oldest has a horrendous diet. He says he can't eat fruit/veg because the texture makes him gag. He's put on a lot of weight and will only eat a limited range of foods (all processed) and junk food. He wants to eat healthier but just can't stomach the right foods.

[BertieBotts]

What kind of music do you like, cat? I am on my third attempt at guitar.

[MaximilianNero]

I have food issues Poverty, I think they're due to my ASD. The worst texture ever to exist is pearl barley. It's unbearable and nausea inducing. I eat the same foods over and over again, so my diet isn't very varied. I've had the same meal 3 times this week very happily, another meal twice.

Cat Yep yep yep. I also agree to go to too many events without thinking, and have to cancel. I'm regretting an impulse purchase I made very recently right now. Stupid half price labels!!

I can play 2 musical instruments, and I got pretty good at Violin by age 18. But I started learning as a child, so my mum forced me to practise multiple times a week. Since leaving home I simply stopped practicing. Until I get a sudden urge to play. But I go in urges, I can never keep to a practicing timetable by myself.

[Thecatgotmytongue]

My diet is awful, I don't have the patience to cook, these days I just eat junk or chicken and salad

Bertie I like all sorts of music really, pop, a bit of rock, stuff they play on the radio ... How are you getting along with playing now? I've been sat here for a couple of hours, trying to concentrate on reading, but thinking I should be practising guitar. I've bought several books, but none of them are "instant" enough