Tiredness and depression - how does it work?

[naswm]

Hi guys. Quick question. It took me a long while to realise the links between lack of sleep and depression. Now I try to get as much sleep as possible. Today I am very tired. In fact as the day has gone on I am beginning to feel quite low. Not depressed, but certainly tired and irritable. Why is this? Do 'normal' people feel depressed when they are tired? Does this mean the depression is there waiting to jump out and scare me if I have two late nights in a row? Answers on a postcard please. naswm x

certainly tiredness makes you feel low, and irritable. depression can be diagnosed with a 'test' from your GP or HV - change in sleep patterns is one of the signs - from not sleeping to sleeping too much - or sleeping and not feeling refreshed or rested. Depression won't come out and get you just because you are tired - if you are depressed, no matter how much sleep you get, you will still be depressed. 'normal' people certainly feel low for one reason or another, the difference is, it goes away rather than remaining and getting worse. have you spoken to GP or HV ?

Isn't it the case that serotonin is manufactured during sleep, therefore not enough sleep = not enough serotonin? I'm sure someone will be along to correct me if that's wrong!

I'm not "normal" (ie have had depression), and I feel low when I am tired. Thought I'd give a "for" the argument case study

Thanks lulumama - sorry, I should have explained a bit more. I am depressed. Have been for years. But over the past 9 months I have taken a number of steps, including acknowledging it (was in denial for years) and doing pratical things to help it. To the extent that over the past couple of months I have begun to feel 'not' depressed any more. So, while I am aware that it has not gone away for good, I am hoping that I can keep it at bay, IYKWIM. But if I have a disturbed night I do suffer the next day... So, is this feeling I have atm just a reminder that my old friend is still hiding underneath the surface??

flamesparrow - that is very helpful (seriously!)

and you too annie

Thansk

Not sure of the answer to your question, but I'm also interested to know as I haven't had a good nights sleep for a couple of weeks and have been feeling bad all weekend. I've only just realised that I'm depressed, although I'd say it was mild/moderate - I'm keen to know what steps you've taken that have helped.

hi glassofwine. I have been seeing a counsellor and also a homeopath, as well as taking lots of herbal tablets. The other majoy things I have done is to improve my diet (not dieting, but cutting out junk as far as possible, and cutting out tea and coffee), drastically reducing my alcohol intake (ridiculously I thought I needed the alcohol to help me cope/relax, but of course, it was only exacerbating the problem) and getting more sleep. All sounds pretty obvious, buf from a depressed persons chair, it wasnt easy to do all those things. I dont pretend I'm 'cured' or indeed that I wont have a relapse, but I am striving hard to keep my head above water for as long as I can.

The stupd thing about the tiredness, is that it is making me crave wine. And I know if I give in to it, I will have a late night, and lots of alcohol, so tomorrow I will feel worse. I need to be strong tonight to stop myself from giving in to my old habits.

Tell me about you, glassofwine?

glassofwine and naswm, when I first had treatment for depression, a counsellor gave me a really good piece of advice which was to try and stick to a regular going to bed and getting up time, even though some mornings it was hard to get out of bed. Even if it's anecdotal evidence, in my experience, tiredness makes the depression worse.

having suffered with depression previously (although not post-natal), probably one of the best things I did was speak to a counsellor, which you are already doing. It was so nice to be able to talk to someone who didn't make a judgement no matter how shocking something seemed to me.
With regards the tiredness, I certainly feel worse when I'm tired but i think it's a combination of factors, for instance, if you're more ratty you're more likely to snap at others and they're more likely to snap back, making you feel like everyone's trying to get at you. You also tend to do more clumsy things like drop stuff or hurt yourself if you're tired and again this makes you feel a bit like the whole world is against you.
Not sure if this makes sense but hope so!

what 'test' can you have to see if your depressed?

I have pretty much got a hang on my depression. But sometimes it creeps up on me, as is it's way, and it's only after I react to something in a OTT manner that I think about it and realise that I didn't get a good sleep the night before or I've been really busy and work and home.

Depression and tiredness go hand in hand. The bastards, why do they have to gang up? One at a time please.

Thanks everyone - all posts very useful

eyeSpy.......Lol at the name - I invented the game, how did you get to be the Queen lol !!!!!

I don't think there's a 'test' that the HV does, more of a tick box questionnaire was what I was told. If you score over a certain number of ticks they might suggest that you are suffering from PND. All in a slightly more tactful way than I have written here!!

naswm I won most of the games and became very big headed and changed my name from MoreTeaAnyone to the Regal name you see before you.

Preen, preen.

BTW the eye spy game was the most fun I've had on MN-ever!!!!!!!

Thanks.
(hijack over)

mysonsmummy - there are lots of online tests you can do. The Edinburgh test is one. Or speak to your midwife/HV. My depression is/was different, in that I identified it myself after years of pretending to myself and others there was nothing wrong. I 'slipped through the net' with GPs, midwives, HVs for various reasons. Altough I'd have loved somone to identify it earlier. So please seek help

I really enjoyed eyespy too!! (hyjack all you like!)

re the 'tests' - HV does the Edwards questionnaire ( i think that is it's name! ) which is a 'tick the boxes' test to see if you are suffering from PND. As the doc or HV can't actually see if you are depressed they ask subjective questions and observe your reactions and if you are crying , tearful etc....to make a clinical diagnosis. NASWM - if you are on meds, are you still taking them, or stopped as you felt a bit better? having tried various different medications for PND, venloflaxine was the best, and as with all these meds, you have to come off them slowly. Great you have been taking positive steps to help yourself! I think that if you are coming out of a period of depression, it takes a while to get back to firing on all cylinders, so tiredness does make a difference. The fact you recognise when you have worse times is good, not feeling the gloom all the time.

Edinburgh test not Edwards!!! just seen other post. I also slipped through the net after birth of DS, 18 months before i was diagnosed! glad to say made full recovery eventually though and not suffered since, had DD and no PND! which was a relief

I felt that the test the MW did with me was a waste of time as I knew the answers that she was looking for. Mainly because the questionnaire is transparent. Depression likes to hide and so I wasn't about to tell the MW how I was really feeling.

It's all about being honest with yourself first and then when you feel ready, others. (IMO)

I have just been 'diagnosed' as having PND by my HV using 'the test'. It is just a series of questions in the form of "how often have you felt blah blah?" and you say "always, sometimes, rarely or never - that type of thing.

I think sleep is def a factor and i feel worse when i have no sleep (i have a 6 month old non-sleeper), but its more of a general 'low' or 'exhausted' feeling which I think makes me more prone to depression that day.

My PND manifests itself in me experiencing 'normal' situations (eg baby crying, not getting washing done, toddler whinging) with far more emotion than I normally would, and getting very anxious and upset and feeling out of control. I think tiredness feeds my depression, but doesn't cause it IFYSWIM.

I agree with TheQueen about the tests , you can tell people what they want to hear - sometimes though by the time you admit it to yourself, you are in too deep. But still a useful tool, in the right hands, but actually being LISTENED to makes a world of difference.

know what you mean about the test being transparent...if you weren't a naturally open person I doubt the test would 'show up' the dpression.

I'm not taking any prescribed meds lulumama. GP basically said I had to learn to get on with the stresses and strains in my life, and that it was natural that I was depressed - but tbh I didnt want them anyway. One thing we did agree on was that my depression is long term and there is no quick fix. So it is a case of doing all I can to help myself. But I am very happy to take complementary tabs etc etc.

I'm on ads long term and haven't been really ill for about 6 years now, but I definitely find that being tired really affects my mood, in fact just like Queenofeyespy describes. When I'm really tired I can go to bed with that "it's all too much feeling" that I get when I'm depressed, and I always panic that I'm on the slippery slop again, but with an early night I'm back to "normal" the next day.