considering mum and baby unit - please help

[narmada]

hi everyone, am hoping for some advice.

i have a new son aged 7 weeks, and a daughter aged 2.5. my son has reflux which means he has been unsettled and cried a lot since birth. he needs to be held for all daytime naps and/ or paced around the house to prevent screaming. he is on meds and we are awaiting paed appointment.

i have been feeling totally unable to cope and just want to run away. currently my partner is doing every night shift with the baby, my 70 year old (but fit and active) mum sleeps in with my DD and is basically caring for her. i have been staying at a local hotel on the advice of local mental health team, who are heavily involved with us. they presented this as an alternative to going into acute care because i felt totally unable to stay at home and was saying i needed to get away and couldn't cope at home, the idea being to give me some space for a few days and chance to rest.

i am on citalopram but having horible anxiety and panic symptoms,which i know are normal on this med,am on zopiclone at night to help me sleep but averaging about 5 hours before waking up totally unable to get back to sleep in a state of sheer panic.

by going to the hotel i feel i am becoming less and less involved with my kids each day - i can't wait to escape in the evening, but in the morning i semi-dread coming home and am feeling less able to cope as the days go by.

last week i was pleading for inpatient treatment of some kind but don't want to go into local psych ward as nightmarish mixed sex place and my kids won't be allowed to visit and i fear i would never come out. i would just spiral lower and lower and how would it help me feel i copuld cope with the kids? in any case they wouldn't admit me as say i am basically not ill enough as not suicidal or psychotic. there are no local nhs mum and baby units - the local one has closed. and again they say they will not refer out of area because am not ill enough.

i keep thinking it is for the best to go to a private mum and baby unit and pay. it would wipe out all our savings, meant for a house, but i feel the alternative is our family falling completely apart. my mum and partner cannot look after the two kids forever on their own and i am worried they will both collapse from sheer exhaustion and then where would we be? i am also puttying myself under real pressure to get better quickly because they are dealing with the burden of everything at home.

does anyone have similar experience or any thoughts? please?

sorry if this is a bit rambly and long but unsurprisingly finding it hard to concentrate at the mo.

will do. i think because the citalopram anxiety side-effects have lessened a tiny bit then 'all's ok then'. he is very good really, very supportive, but i don't think he gets the sleep thing. i have struggled with insomnia for years as well as depression/ anxiety and SSRIs haven't always been the magic cure for the insomnia angle altho they always previously worked well for my dep/ anxiety.

i know, get down, i am really concerned about the zopiclone. have taken it every night for 10 nights now :(. gp seems to be less worried about potential for addiction than me! i do not want to be dealing with rebound insomnia and zopiclone withdawal symptoms at any point, really.

well, the psychiatrist on the home treatment team has been out today and given me a script for mirtazapine 15 mg. i have to take it in the evening, continue also the citalopram for one week. and use the zopiclone if the mirtazapine doesn't knock me out.

my mum did the night shift again last night, it went ok, but she thinks she has a chest infection today, hacking her guts up all night. she is still busying herself tho in the kitchen. DP and DD away at the in-laws. they seem miles away, physically and emotionally.

i keep trying to believe it will get better soon....

Glad to hear they've prescribed the mirtazapine for you that is good news. Hopefully you won't need the zopiclone anymore, I know I didn't when I started mirtazapine.

I found it best to take it around 8pm, I was then nicely sleepy by about 10pm.

You WILL get better. Hang in there.

narmada just caught up on your thread, I am glad you've had some support from getdown who is very knowledgeable on sleep issues!

It's great that they have given you mirtazapine and I really think that this will be the start of you getting better, so fingers crossed for you for tonight. x

Thanks getdown and arcadia. I am a little that I have to carry on taking the citalopram for a week, but have to trust that the psychiatrist knows best. It's my shift with DS tonight - my mum is feeling a bit poorly and has done the last two nights running... and DP not here. Not the ideal conditions in which to start a new sedating (hopefully) medication regime but hey ho. So far, DS has a fairly predictable bedtime of 11 pm ish, which helps with the timing of me taking the mirtazapine.

I would ask your mum to be on standby narmada tonight if she doesn't mind. Or maybe don't start the mirtazapine until a night you won't be disturbed? It never stopped me waking for my DD, but maybe until you know how it affects you, you should wait for a night you're not on duty? I found I was zonked, especially in the first 2 weeks of taking it.

Getdown, I doubt it would stop me waking - nothing seems to stop me waking - zopiclone and earplugs and I still wake at the slightest rustle from DS. Mum is feeling ok now, she is insistent she can do tonight - which is just as well because the prospect of me doing it is sending me into a complete panic.

Just heard from DP that he and DD are coming back from his parents tomorrow because things aren't working out too well down there - he is finding it more stressful than being at home :( His parents are trying to deal with his sister's marriage breakup as well as support him through our family crisis and I think they are finding it a bit much. Our family sounds very melodromatic at the moment, it is usually so calm, I promise you. If it doesn't rain....

I really appreciate the help and support on here. It's a lifeline. thanks everyone.

Aww you are all really going through a tough time right now Sorry to hear about your sis-in-law's marriage break up. On top of everything else that is very sad.

It would be good to have DP home again to support you. Sorry to hear that he's finding it stressful at his parents and everything that's going on.

I know what you mean about the slightest thing waking you up - i am the same.

So do you think yuo will start the mirtazapine tonight?

Let me know how you get on. By the way, the 15mg dose is the best for helping with sleep. Apparently at higher doses it becomes more "activating". I stayed on 15 mg for over a year and found it was enough to lift my mood and reduce my anxiety.

I took the mirtazapine last night - i did find it sedating and managed to get to sleep without zopiclone. I think I slept v lightly though, and woke up several times before hauling myself out of bed finally at about 830 this morning. Today I feel like a zombie, and have a cracking headache too.

I still feel that admission somewhere is looming. I don't know how long I can go on like this. I look and feel like a ghost.

Glad to hear you managed to sleep without the zopiclone. That is good. How do you feel now? Has the zombie like feeling worn off?

Give it time. I think it takes about 2 weeks to start improving mood and anxiety. For me I felt noticeably better after 6 weeks.

narmada you're doing fine. I honestly felt like you do now last year and although life is tough at the moment here I feel nothing like as bad as I did last year. i really thought I couldn't get through it but I did. And you will ! You have insight into the situation and you still have a sense of humour. x

Thanks guys. Your support is brilliant.

The zombie-like effect started to wear off about midday. At least I know what to expect tomorrow morning. When I have DD to get up and look after. Not quite sure how that is going to go. My mum is off for a well-earned break at a hotel tonight and tomorrow.

DP and DD are back, good to see them even though they have brought additional chaos back with them.

DS has been very unsettled with his reflux today. It's just so full on - having to hold him literally all day, and/ or pace him around the house with the dummy firmly plugged in, to enforce naps. If we don't do this then it's hours and hours of crying. Depression/ anxiety makes me feel crap enough but then my poor baby being so unsettled too makes it even worse.

Arcadia glad things are better than last year, hope things aren't too tough at the moment.

narmada I know what you mean. I find the combination of depression/anxiety, with frustration with the baby, with the guilt that you feel frustrated with them, and feeling so sorry for them feeling unwell, is a terrible mix and a vicious circle.

Honestly it will improve for you and you are getting through it, day by day, even if it is hell. That is all you have to do right now - get through each day.

One day your DS will be a lovely little boy running around and all this will seem like a horrible bad dream!

I do hope so arcadia. I know it will seem like a bad dream in time...

Feeling a bit brighter and not so hopeless today, even managed to get DD dressed, out the door, and to nursery. felt like death when i came back but nevertheless...

It's good to hear you are feeling a little brighter today, just keep taking one day at a time and give yourself a pat on the back for getting DD to nursery. The brighter moments will get more frequent and slowly, slowly the brighter moments will merge together. I look back at the bad bad dream and wonder how I got through it but I did and so will you!

Narmada just seen this pop up on Active and read through the thread for the first time - I really feel for you going through such a nightmarish period. You've kept going though, and sounds to me like you've done so well pursuing help & options to make it through each day.

Really positive to hear that things look a little brighter today. Hold on to that thought, even if things dip down again. You will get there day by day.

Getting a difficult toddler DD dressed and out to nursery is a significant acheivement - that can be a proper struggle at the best of times. FWIW, I kept DS1 going to all his nursery sessions while on mat leave for DS2. Some people thought that an odd decision, but enabled me to cope - thus absolutely the right call for all of us.

Well done.

I really feel for you. Many years ago I had depression and anxiety and went on drugs but these made it worse and the anxiety was absolutely horrendous. i can remember the complete fear and head spining. My body fought the sleeping pills so by the morning I was shaking. Anyway, decided not to hit the pills anymore and paid for cogantive therapy which really helped control my syptoms.

I see some medication as short term and would assume yours have creaped back due to exhaustion and when I get tired I feel it creeping back so its a complete cycle. Actually after my second son was born my problems have really curtailed and manage them very well. Probably as I dont have much time to think!

With the reflux have you tried milk that can be prescribed by the GP? Could be diary intol - May be worth a try? What about alternative therapy believe me I dont believe in it much but have heard good results with problems in newborns - I see no harm anyway - chiropratic????

This is the problems there seems to be no help. You obv have a good family unit and yr problems are only going to be short term - once you get the reflux sorted then the sleep routine you have won half the problems. Then you can get treatment for the depression. Have you traced the problems or are they inhereted?

Sleep could be the major problem here and the med can only mess it up.

emlim that's what I'm hoping. Thanks again for your encouragement.

stirlingstar thank you for replying too. I know there will be bad days and good but you're right, it's just a case of looking at it day by day. Something I feel a bit more able to do today - up until now I have just looked at the future with a sense of total panic.

My DD is going to be going to nursery4 full days per week for 2 months (in the first instance) from January. It's sad, and not what I would have chosen, but necessary and she does like it when she gets there.

bacon thanks to you too. I am really in favour of cognitive therapy, and am on the waiting list now thank god, so maybe these problems can be averted in the future. In the past I have found meds a great help, but was really taken aback by the horrendous side-effects this time. Anyway, now I am on the Mirtazapine, things seem to be calming down a bit on the anxiety front. I know meds aren't the answer for many people - your experience sounds awful and I share your thoughts/ experience on sleeping tabs, definitely.

Tiredness is definitely a big problem for me - I have never coped well with sleep deprivation and both my children have been really bad sleepers (my first was actually worse than my DS, going by experience to date).

With the reflux, have thought about dairy intolerance but don't think it is as he was in fact worse when breastfeeding and I was trying to exclude dairy from my diet. He hasn't been any worse on formula so far. But it's definitely a thought. I will see what the paed says next week. He seems to be doing a bit better now on the correct dose of ranitidine for his weight.

I think it's likely that both the depression and reflux problems are inherited (!). A good half of my mother's family (mum included) have had problems with either anxiety of clinical depression. My DP and his own father both have had significant issues with reflux - DP is from time to time on acid-blocking medication for oesophagitis at the age of 35 - so it is no surprise at all that our kids have both had reflux. Dearie me.

oh yes,sleep, leonie....your days sound v full on, not surprised you are stressy.

I was aawake from 2.45 am this morning. sedating effects of mirtazipine appear largely gone, now i feel wired again. what is going on??????

and i have already been pacing my baby around in this bloody sling for what seems like hours as he is knackered but wont sleep unless being permanently jiggled with a dummy in his mouth. back killing me but it is the only way to stop the overtired screeching......

no, never looked into that. Will look into it - thanks for the tipoff.

Been out today and bought a mechanised swing for DS, and he actually fell asleep in it, which frankly is a miracle and if repeated, would totally transform my days as I wouldn't have to pace around the house interminably with my 12 lb baby.