Can someone please explain IF to me ask think I have completely misunderstood?!

[Scarletpetunias]

I tried IF last autumn and got nowhere so quickly became discouraged. I tried the approach of 14/10 to start with, hoping to move to 16/8 if possible. However, I just couldn’t shift any weight at all. I’ve decided to give it another go, but having read the contributions on other threads, I’m wondering if I have the wrong end of the stick.

Basically, my reading of IF was that it is difficult to reduce fat while your body is in its fed state. This state exists until around 12 hours after your last meal. Therefore, after this 12 hour period, for the remaining time that you fast, you will burn fat (and I assumed, lose weight). I also read that you should eat normally during your eating window, which I took to mean 3 healthy meals and possibly a couple of small snacks.

However, lots of contributors here seem to say you also need to calorie count in your eating window as you won’t lose weight if you stick at your usual amount. I completely understand that I can’t gorge myself in the eating window but I had thought it was OK to stick to maintenance level calorie intake. I also expected that not eating in the evening would result in a drop in calorie intake but I had also thought I’d be able to eat breakfast,albeit later than usual.

it just seems that this approach is basically saying ‘cut out one meal a day and keep counting calories’ which isn’t quite the manageable change in lifestyle I was hoping for!

Have I really misunderstood this? I’ve just read Delay Don’t Deny which more or less confirmed what I thought, although she does some low carb meals initially.

thanks for any advice.

If you are eating your Tdee maintenance amount of calories then you will maintain your existing weight. Sorry, overall calories do count.

Although calorie counting is generally not required when doing intermittent fasting, the weight loss is mostly mediated by an overall reduction in calorie intake. Studies comparing intermittent fasting and continuous calorie restriction show no difference in weight loss when calories are matched between groups.

Thank you @MrAloysiusSnuffleupagus. That’s helpful if somewhat depressing! I thought that IF was supposed to avoid the body ‘adjusting’ after a period of calorie reduction which seems to be one the reasons that weight loss isn’t maintained. I’m sort of wondering what all the fuss is about now!

In reality It doesn’t really matter when you consume your calories, what matters is that you manage them.
You can calorie count or you could just roughly estimate them if you don’t fancy tracking but beware it’s very easy to underestimate. Even a couple hundred calories can knock you from deficit to maintenance.

IF does apparently have some other benefits around blood sugar and cravings and fat burning but ultimately it is just another method with the same underlying requirement of being in a calorie deficit to lose weight. It works by stopping the choice to just mindlessly eat and snack throughout the day.

I find that IF helps me eat less, I don’t have three meals and regular snacks, I have two meals. Lunch and dinner. Sometimes a protein shake if I exercise and need the protein.
If you’re continuing to eat normally just in a smaller window, that’s not really aligned with the goal of IF, it’s to reduce the frequency of eating. not just the “window”

So two meals not three and less snacks. Have bigger meals with calorie dense foods like lean protein, veggies, Greek yoghurt etc.

I do it for maintenance and discipline really - not weight loss. I am fully aware that I cannot gorge in the eating window, I get that.

What it does for me is delay eating until 11am (breakfast) then a quite light lunch about 2pm and healthy dinner at 6.30pm. No snacking at all. The fasting window trains me not to reach for the hob nobs anymore. It is just training me not to be a greedy pig!

I have been using it for over a year now and it is good maintenance, not losing any weight but I don't want to now. I was pre diabetic this time last year, and now the HBA1C (blood sugars) is back to normal. I do go a bit haywire when on holidays and special occasions etc. but by and large every day is a 16/8 day.

It absolutely matters when you eat.

You’re most insulin sensitive in the morning so you’ll burn more of what you eat. Eating protein in the morning speeds up your metabolism compared with eating the same amount in the evening.

Women do better skipping dinner than skipping breakfast.

I would say 16/8 is the minimum for effective IF. Ideally you would do 18/6 (eat for only a 6 hour window). Oh, and no snacks. Eventually you might get to One Meal A Day or do 5/2 where you have 2 days not eating.

A lot of the benefits of IF are not weight-loss but health benefits such as reduced inflammation - and any weight-loss does take time, ideally it needs to be a long-term lifestyle change.

If you intend to try to lose weight with just calorie restriction it isn’t gonna happen. For example even if simple calorie counting worked you’d need to cut your daily calories by 500 calories a day to lose 1 pound a week.

If your goal is weight-loss your best option is to cut out all grains and starches. No flour, no rice, no potatoes. Eat more fat and protein and do some exercise even if it’s just walking.

I don’t know your circumstances are situation, but if you had a medical problem and the hospital instructed you to fast for 24 hours before a procedure would you do it? That is the level of commitment many people need but can’t do - in short, weight-loss is simply not important enough to many people that say they want to lose weight. Pain versus pleasure. They make excuses like “I can’t eat food that I don’t like the taste of” or “I can’t give up crisps”. They’d rather kill themselves slowly.

Thanks for all you replies. It’s all very confusing and so much of the literature Seems to be contradictory. For example I read Why we Eat too Much recently and the argument against calorie counting there is that once you reach your weigh set point, the body starts to work against more weight loss, for example by slowing metabolism and increasing appetite.

@RandomPerson42 i actually did have to fast for approx 36 hours before a medical procedure last year. The worst part of the whole experience (which I know many people find painful) was not being able to eat for so long. I really struggle to function without something to eat in the morning.

I’m mid 50s and the menopause just seems to have made it impossible to shift the extra 7 - 10 lbs I’m carrying. I really want to find a way that can become a positive lifestyle change but I’m not prepared to exist on one meal a day!

14/10 is a normal day of eating for most people - just cutting out night time snacks really?

This is spot on. There is no magic in any type of restriction. Be it time (IF), macro (low carb/low fat), calories, .... in the end it comes down to how much you eat and how processed that food is.

Of course , on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok, you have tons of people cashing on telling you the opposite.

How have you worked out your maintenance calories? Using a calculator and generic calculation can often be incorrect

do the scales method it’s much more accurate, not perfect but better

When I did IF, I only ate between 5:30 and 8 pm (when I got home from work). I had tea in the morning then fasted during the day. It wasn't that hard for me as I was never a breakfast eater and I found if I skipped lunch, I didn't start getting hungry until 3:30 or 4:00 and then I just had to make it another hour or two until I got home.

I didn't count calories for my evening meal but since I was only eating once a day, I just ate until I was full.

I lost about a stone over 10 weeks.

I can really recommed reading The Obesity Code by Jason Fung, he also has a lot of concise videos on YouTube. I love the way he actually does a big sigh at the start of each video, as if to say 'I cant believe i have to say this again'.

I haven't tried an eating window, because I know I would still binge on my calories within it. I find 5:2 much more manageable. It seems hard but I find if I don't eat breakfast it doesn't spark the hunger pangs, so I don't find it too hard to get through to dinnertime, but everyone is different.

I've been doing this for over a year now, and the reason I find it so manageable is that I can eat normally 5 days a week (and I genuinely mean that - I snack, have dessert etc) and I never calorie count on those off days.

I've gone from 13st9lb to around 11st 7lb at the moment, so it's also not super quick in weight loss terms, but certainly noticeable. The benefit once you're over X amount of time isn't really from fat burning I don't think - it has other knock on health benefits e.g. there's a point where fasting triggers autophagy - essentially cleansing your damaged cells and repairing them - it can be very beneficial potentially in reducing neurodegenerative diseases and may help with cancer/heart disease etc as your cells are essentially in a healthier state. This is one of the big benefits to me and it requires a fasting period of at least 14 hours.

Honestly I think different approaches work for different people. It probably depends on each individual’s metabolism and will power.
I do 16/8 because it suits my life best and I can cope with that schedule. I eat between midday and 8pm.
I don’t calorie count as such, I just eat healthily and stay away from junk.

Today
midday- bowl of porridge with added mixed seeds and dried cranberries.

mid afternoon- banana, handful of raspberries and a yogurt.

dinner - stir fry chicken and veg with noodles. A couple of satsumas.

I also think when fasting, it’s about learning to listen to your body and not to eat because of habits of meal times and the structure you’ve learned is ‘proper’ but eating what your body needs when you’re actually hungry. So it’s about breaking the habits that have resulted in energy/sugar spikes, weight gain and sluggish feeling.

It can take some time to break those habits as they become so ingrained. I don’t need breakfast. If I’m not hungry at a ‘meal time’ then why am I eating? Who tells me when meal times are? Who tells me what suitable meals are? I find it quite freeing to make the decision of what my body wants, usually protein and plants. Buttery toast tastes lovely, but it doesn’t satisfy me personally and I’m soon seeking out another sugar rush not long after.

Intermittent fasting definitely has benefits over ordinary calorie-counting diets. I'm pretty sure in Gin Stephens' later book Fast Feast Repeat (or maybe it's in Jason Fung's The Obesity Code...?) she cites studies where they compared calorically-matched diets either eaten spread out across the day or squeezed into a smaller eating window, and the ones eating in the smaller window proved a metabolic advantage.

This makes perfect sense when you understand that the longer periods of time without food help to balance your insulin levels, and as insulin is what dictates whether energy is burned or stored as fat, you can see why you want to keep it low for as much of the day as is possible.

Clearly eating for 8 hours a day rather than 12+ means you are highly likely to eat less... But! The fat stored on anyone's body is NOT just dictated by how many calories they eat, but by a much more complex cocktail of hormones etc. as well. EG a type 1 diabetic who can't produce their own insulin can eat more calories than they technically need, but if they aren't taking enough exogenous insulin, they will be physically unable to store the calories as body fat.

Fasting is excellent for weight loss because the single best way to reduce your insulin levels (and therefore allow your body to burn fat rather than storing it) is to not eat anything.

However, for most people, as previous posters have said, 14:10 isn't going to be enough fat-burning time to be effective for weight loss.

Don't be discouraged, if you can manage 14:10 then you will absolutely be able to gradually build up to 16:8... And once you're adapted to that (and you will adapt) then you can build up further and find your weight loss 'sweet spot'.

If you can't bear the thought of skipping breakfast, would you consider maybe having breakfast and a late lunch and not eating after mid-afternoon ish? There's no hard and fast rules to fasting, everyone can find the window length and timing that suits them. Not everyone needs to do OMAD, and if you only need to lose 7-10lbs then I imagine you wouldn't need to be too extreme with it.

Ultimately, just play around with it until you find a way of doing it that's getting results and feels sustainable. Eat what makes you feel good, not what anybody else tells you to eat. Try to gradually extend your fast / reduce the eating window each day. Be patient and experiment. 🤗

Oh and I 100% agree that Jason Fung is EXCELLENT. Well worth watching / listening to / reading anything by him. He knows what he's talking about... Read his book The Obesity Code and you'll understand why losing weight is not just about calories.

@Scarletpetunias - I think you are focusing too much on various theories related to dieting. You'd do much better by focusing on the practicalities.

IF works only if you consume fewer calories. The easiest way to do this is to eat a healthy, Mediterranean type diet and cut out UPF and unhealthy snacks. Eat lots of vegetables plus a moderate amount of lean protein.

www.eatingwell.com/gallery/8025586/mediterranean-diet-dinners-for-weight-loss/

Instead of rice and pasta, eat cauliflow, broccol, roasted vegetables such as parsnips, carrots, peppers. Salads are great as long as you don't drench it dressings or mayo.

Don't keep rubbish food (biscuits, icecream, milk chocolate) in the house. Snack on fruit, carrots and boiled eggs if you are hungry betwe

Exercise and get fit. You won't lose weight through exercise, but it'll help you stay focused on being healthy.

If fasting has no benefit without counting calories, why do so many people bother to fast? 🤔 Why is it becoming so popular? Why not just reduce your calories and eat healthy food and exercise more???

Oh wait, haven't people been trying to do that for 60 years and yet the whole world is still getting fatter and fatter?!

@mumlikeaboss why is it popular? Because it is a trend on YouTube and instagram.
In real life, in real science, if you go isocaloric, meaning you keep the calories identical and only change the feeding time/window/frequency, it doesn't work.

It's not too difficult to delay breakfast and not snack after dinner.

Which is why IF works if you don't stuff yourself with crap during the intervening hours.

Cup of tea at some point after you wake up
2 egg omelette at 11 am (Plus a cup of tea)
Mixed salad with tuna or chicken or beans at 1.30 pm (Plus a cup of tea)
An apple or a large slice of cantaloupe, or a boiled egg, at 4 pm (Plus a cup of tea)
A Mediterranean style dinner (without lots of carbs or sauce) at 6.30 pm
(Plus a cup of tea later if you're feeling peckish)

If you can stick to this or similar 6 days a week, you will lose weight. The weight loss won't be dramatic but slow and steady. Don't drink calories (soda, fruit juice, booze...), but regular cups of tea help!

It's easier to stick to if you exercise at least 20-30 minutes a day. HIIT and/or resistance based. Get some dumbbells and try Caroline Girvan. Do 8-12 push-ups and hold a plank for 3 minutes every day. Check out Growingannanas for HIIT.

When you get to my age you'll be glad you did 😎

@2023CameAfter2022 Fair enough. Can't argue as I haven't done the experiments myself 😉

I still believe 110% that IF has tonnes of benefits outside of the fact that it makes it easier to reduce your food intake. It cannot be compared to a traditional reduced-calorie diet when you take into account the hormone-balancing and inflammation reduction and amazing autophagy that happens once you get into a fasted state.

The real magic is when you adapt to the fasting and your body gets great at switching fuel sources, your hormone levels settle down and you NATURALLY want to eat less - without needing to count a single bloody calorie or obsess over macros or exercise off that chocolate bar you think you shouldn't have eaten.

Will be interesting to see if it sticks around or disappears like other unsustainable diets.

Thanks for all the responses on this thread, it’s given me a lot to think about.

@FlowerArranger the pattern you’re describing in this post is pretty much how I’d envisaged my eating with IF. I need to delay breakfast a little longer than at present (managing to fast for 15 hours) but otherwise I do reduce my calorie intake by not eating after around 6.30pm.

I think I need to have a look at reducing calorie intake from snacks although it’s not massive at the moment and definitely focussing exercise toward more HIIT and resistance. At the moment I do exercise but it’s pretty much walking based with some Pilates.

I think it's the snacks that are most people's downfall! Write down every morsel you eat outside regular meals and you'll see that it adds up. Best you can do is not keep sugary and refined carbs rubbish, or booze, in the house.

As for easy workouts...

Rebecca Louise is very personable and chatty. Her workouts are short and pilates based. Have a look at her Best Abs workout.

If you are looking for someone a bit less energetic, try Lucy Wyndham Reed who is excellent and very calm. Try her Glutes & Thighs session.

Growingannanas does HIIT and doesn't talk at all. She is lovely, knows her stuff, and she has a large variety of workouts ranging from 12 to 40 minutes, both with weights and without. Try some of her Tabata workouts, which are excellent for beginners.

All free on YouTube.

And do NOT eat back the workout calories! Ignore them in your daily allowance. Also when calculating your daily calories, if you are very overweight, you shouldn't use your current weight. I have read on MN about the adjusted weight as fat is not metabolically active and doesn't need maintenance.