Blood Sugar Diet and Fast800 thread 14

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The blood sugar diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc) although alcohol is calorie heavy and can influence your appetite
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum of 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800. We recommend you take your measurements before you begin, not just your weight. A target pair of jeans in a smaller size or even a photography or two can be very motivating!

Some useful links:

previous thread

meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

I think it's dopamine related as well. We are so used to this big flood of dopamine from eating rubbish food, that our receptors get very saturated and don't recognise it so well. It's also all made within our own body (ie the junk food doesn't contain dopamine, it causes our body to make it - same as with cocaine, or gambling) so without the correct ingredients available we don't always do this efficiently. This causes the 'addictive' feeling. We eat more and more chocolate because we're chasing that 'buzz' which is impossible to achieve because we're not managing the chemical efficiently.

But, Now we're functioning properly, not flooding our receptors, properly nourished, you're probably getting your 'fix' without realising it and therefore your whole neurochemical balance is much more stable. You do need some dopamine, it's the chemical that brings joy in life from basic human functions, so you will get it from eating (and sex, exercise, etc) but once our animal brain learns this shortcut (bingeing, sugar, cocaine, adrenaline sports, risk and reward) then it takes us back there every damn time. We also use it ourselves, to anaesthetise and 'override' our feelings. I sometimes crave the 'numbness' of the post- binge rather than the binge itself, is that weird?

So it goes like this:
Brain- well that was stressful/upsetting
Animal brain- dopamine dopamine dopamine , quickest way possible - ie. chocolate, binge, sweets, (assuming none of us are crack addicts??!)
Which is why we can still find ourselves rattling frantically around in the cupboards because we've had a bad day at work!

So yes, you're probably not feeling so emotional because a) the low emotion was probably caused in part by the very behaviour you were using to overcome it, and b) you're being so much more effectively 'dopamined' now that you are naturally balancing your emotions better.

(I've done a lot of work with drug addicts in prisons and it's amazing how many of them develop an incredibly sweet tooth once they give up drugs)

Hi everyone, day 3 here. I have so far to go, at least 4 stone. But am finding it ok so far. I do thrive on a low carb diet - I found those days the easiest when I was doing Joe Wicks 90 day plan. Husband is struggling a bit more bless him!

@bear I think you nailed it. I've had some significant MH issues over the last few years and have done a LOT of therapy around this. The first reason I'm not emotional eating is because I've done enough work on myself to now truly believe that this isn't ending because I'm defective in some way. This situation is far more right person, wrong time but that's down to him not me so there's not much I can do about it. So that softens the blow slightly.

But the role this diet plays is equally important (and has cost a hell of a lot less & taken way less time) in that because I'm not filling my body with the carbs it was addicted to, I'm not craving them. My focus is on what did will make me feel better overall not just in this moment because my heart hurts. In 8 weeks the diet had broken the crazy carb yoyo and taught me that I don't need it, because ultimately it doesn't feel good in my body.

The reality is to some degree this diet is giving me a control I feel out of in other ways, and as much as I'd like those hits of dopamine, I can find them in other ways, including just being gentle with myself. I'm going to have to sit with this heartache & that just takes time. And losing the last 21lbs I want to lose will take time too, so as long as I don't do something stupid, I'll get there!

Phoenix you will get there! I think recognising emotional eating cues is such an empowering thing, because it gives us back the control. I definitely find that the sugar free lifestyle gives me the seconds, and it is literally seconds sometimes, that is needed to say No, I don't want it. Thinking time. Because deep down we all know that it's not going to help us to eat a family sized bar of chocolate, and if anything we'll feel worse, but we do it don't we, over and over again. You sound very strong Phoenix and I hope your heartache isn't too severe.

I’m finding these posts so true and fascinating today.
If I have a bad day I self medicate myself with wine normally. Which is essentially sugar and I guess induces the dopamine rush. I used to smoke many years ago and cigarettes were my prop then, not wine.Of course everyone has stopped smoking these days which is one reason for weight gain in the Uk.
I reheated up the low carb pancakes in butter for my two teens. They puffed up in the heat again and they had them with maple syrup and blueberries. So I guess I will make a batch every week as they store in the fridge for a couple of days and it means we can all have pancakes.
Phoenix I’m sorry about your break up but well done in resisting the lure of forbidden food.

These posts have been an eye opener, I’m so motivated now to get back on the wagon tomorrow. Last time I did just lunch and dinner which worked ok for me, or do I have to eat breakfast?

Also I have just signed up with a personal trainer, can I still train on 800? I could do 5:2 but I’d ideally like the 800 as I know it works better to curb my emotional eating (and drinking). I self medicate with wine and carbs too and it just HAS to stop.

I find my weights totally exhausting on 800 cals. But started running gently while doing this and that's fine. I'm actually improving and running a but further now but only when that feels doable. I'm continuing with weights but eat a bit more, tho still low carb, on the day I train or the day after depending on when I feel I need it. However I am doing fairly serious barbell training focused on building muscle and strength. I've decided I cant really do either on really low cals but trying to maintain what I have. So I think it depends really on how hard you're training.

Eating during the day....

I think I am finding it easier to regulate my appetite by having nothing (well for as long as possible) during the day then have a larger late meal. I am resonating with the dopamine thing, in fact I am sure this explains a lot with myself. I have to say that any carbs are attractive to me when I'm "low", stressed, anxious or tired (TOM) and these do give an instant rush. The dopamine theory would explain why, for me, plain carbs are enough to satisfy my cravings but just in bulk.

I am not yet on the 800 kcal as I'm trying to gradually get down to this. I'm really interested to hear about those that have found their appetite has LOWERED since being on the 800 kcal day diet. How are you all sleeping? I have always been someone who can't sleep if hungry... I also can't sleep totally stuffed :-) balance!

Phoenix I am also really sorry to read about your break up. I resonate with your emotional eating. I had a friend years ago who went through a great weight loss journey and stopped bingeing and she said she dealt with some very challenging situations so much better because she was no longer bingeing. It was like the bingeing was a self destruct button and escaping from that I think she respected her self more.

I have done lots of walking this weekend which really helps combat cravings but getting in from work I always feel that twitch of excitement thinking about food - not dinner but the dopamine fix. Now it's a case of what do I replace it with- herbal tea doesn't cut it.

I had planned to do 800 during the week aiming to focus on all my kcal in the eve so that I can sleep and not getting into the snacking/graze thang.

bear thanks so much for that. I’ve been thinking all through this thread that I hope your knowledge and communication skills are being used professionally, and it sounds like they are. I really appreciate it.

Yes, it makes sense. I’ve had other addictions, and I can even remember saying in my early 30s that food was my last addiction.

I was good at giving things up
(eventually), but I knew I had to come onto relationship with food, not give it up (which I kind of tried but I’m so much more or a “ too much is never enough” than an anorexic).

Any way thanks to all the lovely posters who said nice things about me getting married bright saffron yellow. I’m Middle Eastern/ Mediterranean so it goes well on my skin.

I’m used to thinking of MN as a bit of a nest of vipers, but this thread is so supportive, and doesn’t feel neurotic like some diet talk can. Don’t mean that judgementally.

I always post such reams on here. I’ll go to bed now

Ok I am still having some skimmed milk (because I like it) with morning coffee but turkey curry with broccoli for evening meal and lunch possible goats cheese - small amount.

Is the maintaining the low carb element for maximum weight loss and appetite supresion? I have a pesto pizza and thought if I had a slice that was 300 kcal would that ruin it? I don't have diabetes but at the same time want to optimize results.

If this works i actually may stay on it for the week days, so it becomes a lifestyle change- it's quite exciting really!

Well, I’ve put on three pounds overnight. I was hungry yesterday and ate far more than normal.I was just really hungry for some reason. As I was doing the garden and a long dog walk. Also I have three days of oestrogen only Hrt to allow for a bleed. So I’m wondering whether this is the fluid retention associated with a period. But in this case induced!

Feelingforty, I’m not hungry on 800 cals, it’s been 15 days now. But I ate 4 FOUR bars (little ones, 85 cal each but still) of green and blacks chocolate last night because I burned my hand and I was feeling sorry for myself. So I will have gone over 800 yesterday. Totally emotional eating. Am cross with myself but thinking today is another day...

Day 1 for me, black coffee with small amount of coconut milk (accounted for) then lunch around 300 cal and dinner at 400. Plenty of water. I need distracting especially in the afternoon. I find that I’m fine in the day but my binges happen in the evenings so I need to focus on other stuff.

It seems like a lot of us have emotional eating in common and I was wondering if anyone has had any professional help with this? A friend of mine used an online programme for overeating anonymous and she has had staggering results.

Can I join? I started a week ago but had a day off on Saturday as we were meeting friends for boozy pub lunch. I’ll read back.
Despite the day off I’ve lost 1/2 stone in 1 week!
Motivation for doing is I gained a stone over late autumn/winter and fed up with the big gut, clothes feeling tight and want to be ready for summer and my hols in Spain coming up in early June.
I’ll follow for tips and motivation.
I have been a bit hungry at times so the day off on Saturday (I just had 2 wines/Large Caesar salad/scoop of choc ice cream at the boozy friends lunch and 2 slices homemade pizza in the evening) really helped me.
I know you’re not supposed to in the first 2 weeks but bizarrely I felt super full after and gave me the motivation to continue this week.
I do have an event again this coming weekend so my plan is to continue on 800 cals for 3 weeks with one day off a week.
I’m genuinely surprised I didn’t undo all the good work with that day off...

So what I’m trying to say if you slip for a day don’t dwell on it. Overall such drastic calorie cutting for a short period seems to be doing the trick very fast

Morning all. Apparently up a pound but I reckon it's the sad wine & tail end of my period. History shows that'll be gone by the end of the week.

28lbs down in total since starting 7lbs in the last month. 4 weeks to go. I've got 9lbs to my first goal so really hoping I can lose that this month.

Can't remember if I said, yesterday I went to buy some more M&S jeggings. I was a tight 18 when I started so wanted a 16 only they were too big! The 14s are snug but they're bloody 14s so I don't care!

Usually I balloon during a breakup, really hoping I stay on track - then I only need to be sad about 1 thing!

ohyesiam, this resonates with me, you said “but I am great at stopping diets in an unaware way, with no maintenance plan” - me too! I lost 2 stone last year and then stupidly went back to carbs etc. Saffron yellow sounds gorgeous.

Phoenix yes, yes, yes to self care - eating or drinking too much is self harm really I’ve decided so I’m trying to practice self compassion instead.

Lasttimeround, I make lists too! Well done on not reacting to no loss, you’re right, it will happen.

Wow bear, the dopamine theory makes sense. I burned myself yesterday and was quite upset. I ate chocolate and it was definitely self comfort. After 15 days of hardly any sugar as well. Never mind, today will be better.

So far today I’ve had 61g chicken with some satay sauce so I think about 200 calories. I think I’ll have a big salad with smoked trout mixed with creme fraiche and horseradish for supper.

Sneaking back on as apparently I can't be trusted doing BSD on my own!
No weight gain but feel I'm on a slippery slope. So decided to aim for 800 cal 2 days a week, 1200 ish 4 days a week with no counting of calories or wine on a Saturday. How hard can it be?!!

I’ve just made myself a really lovely lunch. I had two aubergines past their best so googled recipes and found a Jamie Oliver Recipe for grilled Aubergine and White Miso plus cucumber pickles . It’s stunning and easy and really has an almost meaty taste. Had zero noodles with it instead of the sushi rice and now need to use up the packet of white miso on other veggies now.
I’d woken up with such a bad headache and needed cheering up!

Hi everyone, welcome back Onanother, nice one on the jeggings Phoenix!
*
Water* draw a line under the G&B chocolate 'incident'! Hope your hand is better though.

Soy welcome to the thread!

I was a pound up as well this morning, so I've hovered around the 10.4/10.5 mark despite not being very calorie controlled last week at all
I've just had my first meal today though, huge lettuce salad with 100g cold gammon and half an avocado, with 1tbsp light mayo and some salad topper seed mix. Tonight we're having a Young's gastro fish thing with cheese crust, and I'm having homemade mushy peas with mine. Should sail in at sub-800 provided I actually stick to the menu I've planned.

Glorious sunny day here, god I love the feel of the warm sun on me (I'm part lizard I'm sure!).

Dear All, long time lurker here - and been watching the threads since middle of Feb.

I've found you all so inspirational and helping me on my journey with this as well .

As of today, I have done 12 weeks on the fast 800 - and can truly say this is transforming my life and turned upside down how I think about food - I liked to think I was diet savvy ( just ate too much) but this has really changed my low-fat mentality. I think Dr Mosley should be knighted for services to Public Health I've now gone and read his other books - this is now going to be a new way of living for my family.

I've now lost 28lbs from 13.1.8 to 11.1.8 and lost 12cms from my waist, 20.5cm from my hips and 15cms from my fattest bit/widest circumference also 8cm from each thigh.

I've generally done 2 meals a day - brunch at 12 and tea at 7ish and I've generally found it o.k. - I think I've just got a better headspace IYKWIM.Although, April was a bit slow/rubbish but still averaged 4lbs over the month. Got my backside in gear for May and have lost 6lbs in the last 2 weeks. I've learned that drinking loads of water makes a big difference.

Of the couple of times that I've gone a bit off track, I haven't reverted to sandwiches but just had a bit more of stuff that's on the programme anyway. Took a lot from your messages that a blip doesn't mean that you're back to square one! Also, got all the family having the food - they just have extra stuff as well. Also tweaking what we all eat going forward.

My dilemma now is - do I have to stop as feels ok? I feel healthy (been taking a supplement as advised) upped my exercise and it's working and I want to lose another between 14-21lbs. I can see the day when I won't be losing weight - never thought this would happen!!!! Def need to firm up the wobbling bits though!

What's your experience from moving from the fast 800 every day - I'm minded to do 5 days a week and have a couple of days a bit more relaxed but still Med eating - would be lovely if you would share your experiences/advice .

Thank you lovelies

Welcome lifeisntadressrehearsal!

Newaveragebear, thanks, you made me smile, I will indeed draw a line under the Green & Blacks incident! Onwards and downwards! (In weight, obvs)

Life welcome, what a great loss! I think in the fast 800 he says you can do up to 20 weeks? It's really up to you how you play it now, you might find you need a few more calories as you increase your exercise though.