Blood Sugar Diet and Fast800 thread 14

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The blood sugar diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc) although alcohol is calorie heavy and can influence your appetite
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum of 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800. We recommend you take your measurements before you begin, not just your weight. A target pair of jeans in a smaller size or even a photography or two can be very motivating!

Some useful links:

previous thread

meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

concerned well done on the run and on finishing your first week.

So I have my loss details for my first 4 weeks:

Week 1: 12lbs
Week 2: 4lbs
Week 3: 3lbs
Week 4: 2lbs
TOTAL LOSS: 21

I've also lost 16 inches and 5.4% body fat! Still not gone down a dress size but figure it's on the way... Hoping to now maintain a loss of at least 3lbs a week but also, now I'm not sick any more, I'm going to add in some gentle running and yoga.

Really thrilled!

I’m feeling very inspired by you awesome people!!!
I started yesterday (on a Sunday! I couldn’t go on for one more day!)
Feel very alert this morning and raring to go! I’ve dwoadws JM 30 day shred to along side 🤞🏻🤞🏻

Well done folks. Phoenix your numbers are astounding. We have houseguests till Friday. I'm going to do as best I can. Its week 4 and I'm planning another seriously strict weeks 5 and 6 after this week.
On exercising I had a spoon of honey in my protein shake for weight lifting days. Much stronger with that. Now have bought some dextrose. I tab for each lifting workout otherwise I'm so weak. But I upped my runs to 2 plods round the pond rather that 1. Straight after morning coffee so I hope I fat burn all the way (that keeps me going ). I think it works as body fat percentage on scale dropped loads this week. Although I have to say that fluctuates a lot so maybe I just got lucky with the way the weighs came in. But I choose to believe that: as I run in an almost fasted state I am fuelled by fat alone!

Hello! I’ve been lurking on this thread and completely inspired by the determination in all you ladies. I am very short and technically have a BMI in the healthy range but am of an ethnic origin at high risk of T2DM and have put on 6kg over my norm which is a lot of belly fat on my small frame. Started Fast800 last Tuesday so today is day 7 and I’m doing okay so far, lost 1.3kg. Tracking my calories on MyFitnessPal and cut out all bread/rice/pasta/root veg and of course sugar. One lapse when I had a rather sweet cocktail when out with friends on Thursday evening but I was super good apart from that and shunned the amazing flat bread and spicy potatoes!!

I have a question which I hope some of you might be able to help me with. I am wondering when I reach my target weight how best to not put on again. I do love sweet stuff and carbs! Is intermittent fasting the way forward or should I continue to watch my carbs daily forever?

Anyone here with high blood sugar AS WELL AS high cholesterol?

I have both. So I can't eat full fat dairy and have to watch my meat intake. It's hard. Really hard.

I've lost 4kg since I started the blood sugar diet and now my cholesterol level is ok.

Any tips to further reduce carbs? How much of rice is an appropriate portion? I really, really need to eat a fruit after dinner though. And it's mostly a clementine or a banana.

I have both. Blood sugar not too bad. Forgotten number sorry. Cholesterol sky high but due to generic condition that doesn't respond to dietary factors so probably not relevant to you although o try to stick to healthy fats as the numbers are terrifying. I'm hoping my cholesterol might respond to weight loss, but its unlikely. I have small piece of cheese after meals rather than fruit. I weigh it and it's small. I'm currently not eating any complex carbs or fruit. Hoping to reintroduce the latter. May not reintroduce rice bread or pasta tho except occasionally as just seems to drive my appetite crazy. But as I said my genetic profile is unusual.

Iron hi, welcome! Regarding your high cholesterol, I would read up about the very current scientific research about full fat dairy before making your mind up- it's not something I'm hugely knowledgable about but I recall reading articles that said it isn't necessarily terrible. High cholesterol and blood sugar combined is a key symptom of metabolic syndrome/ syndrome X , and following this plan should help with that, so I'd do a bit of reading. The plan itself will be harder if you don't get enough fat. You might need to focus on eg. Oily fish, nuts, avocados to compensate for the lower fat dairy products?
Also, re: rice - I'd avoid it entirely if you can. It will rocket your blood sugar. You can have grains (eg quinoa ) or very small quantities of wild rice (but that's really difficult to source, it's the black rice you sometimes see mixed with white rice). There's some great recipes for cauli rice or I usually just have veg with things like chilli or curry, or zero noodles with Chinese.
Re: fruit- it's okay after dinner but something like raspberries/strawberries or an apple, rather than tropical fruit of oranges unfortunately.

Bythebeach , welcome! I have realised that realistically I need to keep my exercise levels up, plus continue with a healthy med style diet to maintain. I've kept my weight off for about a year now, but I do exercise a lot, and if I do have a carb fest (like last weekend) or chocolate/bread/ too much wine- it still shows hard on the scales and I need to do strict 800 and low carb for a few days to get it back off. I personally couldn't introduce more carbs daily (eg allow a slice of bread daily) because it makes me crave more although I do allow more in general as 'one offs'. I suppose it's about what works for you, trial and error, and you need to find your own limit as to what you can allow and what tips you over.

@thenewaveragebear - thank you.

My cholesterol level is now ok. Blood sugar is still pretty much the same (43 in January and 42 now) so I probably need to further reduce my carb intake. I've reduced the rice and pasta portions right down but still hard to give up altogether as we are a mainly rice eating family.

Thank you bear! My legs are feeling weak so have only been walking dog and doing a few sit ups and squats and press ups at home but plan to incorporate some exercise as way of life change too. Need to work out what I can fit in that I can keep up!

I've had a good day today, didn't calorie count as I'm having my kitchen done and it's all chaos here. Although all I've eaten was chicken salad x 2 meals and a portion of McD's mozzarella dippers and a diet sprite. It certainly helped my focus to have workmen in the kitchen all day, kept me out of the cupboards as there's no cupboards left!

10k steps, no run today. I'm doing the same again tomorrow (ie. salad x 2) and doing a double session at circuits back to back as I'll have no children (good old granny is having them for 3 days). I'm hoping that a few days unable to cook will mean my menu will be nicely streamlined and no room for snacks.

bear how was Rome?

Thanks macca, it was Florence actually, but it was amazing. It was a corporate jolly with Dh's work so it was rather luxurious- we stayed at the 4 seasons and had a private viewing of Michaelangelo's David! I love Italy though, love just wandering the streets and the food is divine. And the wine! I put on 6lbs in 3 days although have dropped 4 of those by this morning.

Sounds stunning bear. And no lasting damage on the scales either!

I've been mostly flying solo the last few weeks however having just returned from the shop where I made a special trip for chocolate I think I need some support!!
My masters dissertation is due two weeks today, I work full time and have to travel with work next week. I'm so bloody stressed with it all I'm likely to get fat or develop a drink problem

Hi, just joining here for some advice from seasoned BSDers please.

I've done the fast800 fairly strictly for two weeks (now in third). I did the fast for 5 days and ate normally at the weekends.
The first week was ok, felt in a good mood and pretty in control. Lost 3lb.

Put a couple back on over the weekend and then found the second week really hard. I was shaky and dizzy going upstairs and felt like I was constantly starving.
I managed to lose the weight I'd put on over the weekend and got a total loss of 5lbs over the 2 weeks.
This weekend I've managed to put on 4lbs over the weekend and didn't lose anything yesterday or today. I've increased my calories so I can incorporate breakfast and the dizziness is better. Now aiming for 1000 a day but keeping to the principles of no carbs / sugar.
So effectively I've had two weeks of starvation for a 1lb loss.

I'm really miserable about it and wondering how I'm ever going to lose.

Has anyone else had such dismal results and can tell me what I'm doing wrong? I need a shove in the right direction! Thank you And sorry for the tome!

Im not that long into it to give advice from but a bit more detail on your macros is probably needed for advice. What's your BMI? What kind of macros are you eating - carbs fats proteins? How much water are you drinking? What are your activity levels like?

Frou welcome. I think what you're experiencing is due to the on/off strategy. Basically when you very first start, you'll shed loads of water, and stored glycogen, and then you start fat burning. Every time you eat carbs your body switches to burning them first, replenishes the glycogen stores and the water (it's about 2 molecules of water per molecule of glycogen). So if you go 'off piste' at the weekends, you'll always show it on the scales, then as you cut the carbs out you'll go through that whole rigmarole of losing the water/glycogen again. You probably are losing fat, but it's being masked by the water.

I know I hold around 3-4lbs of water/ glycogen (tested by running 20km fasted, weighed 3.5lb less after running!) so it's perfectly possible that you hold a similar amount and could fluctuate by that much, plus the actual weight of food in your digestive system, plus any other water retention. Depending on what you mean by 'eat normally' at the weekends, as in do you eat bread/potato/rice/alcohol or are you sticking to the principles but having more calories? (As I posted this morning, I lost 4lb overnight which was basically water retention from an off plan weekend cured by a strict fast day yesterday)

Have you calculated your tdee /basic calorie requirements for maintenance? Are you calorie counting at weekends? BSD friendly food is very calorific if you eat it freely, plus throw a few extra carbs/wine/treats into the mix on top and you could well be consuming more calories than you think?

My only suggestion would be to keep to the principles as best as you can, and drink plenty of water to flush out any retention. I made weigh in day a Wednesday not a Monday because of exactly your situation and I always do a strict fast day on a Monday before officially weighing in as I was experiencing such big fluctuations it was masking my efforts.

Hi @Frou NewAverage is the guru here but I agree with her about the on/off approach probably being the problem. There's a big difference between 5:2 and BSD - you basically go to 5:2 AFTER you've done 2/6/8/12 weeks of BSD, not as part of the BSD if that makes sense?

Also as @lasttime says can you share more of your macros on the days you were doing 800cals?

Hi everyone, busy week. Yesterday was my weigh in for the end of week 2 and I’m now down 18lbs! I’m preparing myself for a much much smaller loss for week 3, as I’ve read that’s quite typical.

Still finding it easy to stick to although an M&S advert for bread yesterday had my mouth watering and colleagues’ toast at 4am during a very long night shift smelt lush. My good results mean there was no real temptation there though.

I definitely had heavy legs on the hill newaveragebear and I also felt like I couldn’t get my breath and could feel my heart - not in the typical exertion way though (I wasn’t exerted, I could only walk about 25 steps before needing to stop because I couldn’t lift my legs - it was a steep stepped path so there was no option for small steps). It was quite scary actually. I’ll just avoid big hills for now I think.

Thank you both. My head hurts!

So my macros on day one were:
37% crbs
45% fat
18% protein

Day 6 (after the weekend)
12% carbs
60% fat
28% protein

Day 8
20% carbs
50% fat
30% protein

Day 11 (yesterday)
17% carbs
62% fat
21% protein

When I say I was eating normally at weekends I mean, I ate what I would before I started so a few treats and carbs but not more than I would have before diet.
Exercise - not yet. Was feeling too squiffy last week and now I'm easter holidays with kids. So, active but not exercising as such.

Given that I found the 800 too hard do you think bsd would work for me if I did it consistently without weekends off?

Thanks I'm advance!

Oh I should also say I was doing about 18:6. Lunch at 12, dinner at around 5.30/6.
By week 2 that was getting really hard but I couldn't seem to incorporate a breakfast without blowing the calories.

Frou macros blow my mind too! However, if I do have a really good day on plan, usually my carbs are around 20% and my fat/protein fairly equal for the rest. This seems to just happen naturally by cutting out the big 5 nasties so: no pasta, rice, potato, grains, sugar (and number 6, fruit).

I factor in 2 or 3 doable fast days (for me I plan them on my busiest days, when I'm not planning strenuous running or social events, I sit with the diary in a Sunday and 'book them in'), then look at your tdee and work out a manageable low calorie day (my tdee is high because I exercise a lot, so for me I can do 1500/1600 cals and still be under tdee by a fair bit. If you're petite or sedentary this could be 1100 cals?), but the real key is to keep your blood sugars stable by not having those key 5/6 foods that hike them up - even within your 800 calories/tdee calories. It can help to think of those foods as little switches that as soon as you eat them they switch on your insulin and you're in fat storage mode, not fat burning mode. It could be that you're especially insulin resistant so even a small amount is causing a big insulin response and skewing your results (because it does sound like your weeks have been excellent, so it's the weekend that is causing the problem?) but insulin resistance will improve quite rapidly once you start becoming more sensitive to it.

Another thing you can do is, if you can't fit in a fast day, is condense your eating window right down to extend your fast, which will also help with IR even if your actual calorie total isn't super low.

Sorry, should add:

Tdee is daily energy expenditure (based roughly on mass x activity).

calculator

I usually enter my activity as sedentary then tweak it mentally to allow for my exercise as it's hard to judge exertion. If you have a Fitbit or other tracker, you can get a more accurate tdee based on your annual/monthly/weekly activity through the app.

If you use the calculator above then you can have a rough idea of the calories you'd need to maintain your current weight, so can deduct accordingly for weightloss.

Thank you New, that's really helpful.

I'm using a Fitbit to track my calories but haven't been wearing it. The tdee seems to show around 1300 but the website you linked to showed 1650.

May I ask how many days do you fast and how many calories do you eat on your non-fast days?
I think I'm ok with cutting out the delicious carbs for a couple of months if I don't have to be completely hungry every day.
I wonder if I could do intermittent fast instead of the fast800.

What blows my mind is that I could put on 4lbs in 2 days just eating my regular diet. It's not like I was gaining weight at that pace before. I would've been dead by now