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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too

947 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2015 22:31

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Recent Research showed that lack of exercise is twice as likely to lead to premature death as being obese (BMI 30 -35)

Body Fat, Exercise & Diet
People who maintain their weight through diet alone without exercise are likely to have major deposits of visceral fat (the more dangerous kind around organs), even if BMI is ok.

They are TOFIs (Thin Outside, Fat Inside)

A MRI study found that:
45 % of women and nearly 60% of men with “healthy” BMI, had excessive levels of visceral fat i.e. clinically overweight

A Can J Card study showed visceral fat can be burned off via exercise, even if weight is unchanged (increased lean mass)

Hormesis

Hormesis, see Mattson , BlackSwan and Stronger is cutting edge science for nutrition & fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between “extremes” - e.g. feast & fast (5:2 / IF) , intense training & rest (HIIT) - makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs (Fast Days), seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for sessions of up to 90 mins.

TYPES of Exercise

Main types: Aerobic, anaerobic, flexibility.

All exercise will burn fat, the more intense the faster the fat burn

Anaerobic
e.g. HIIT (see below), sprints, strength training
. Shorter training period
. Increases the RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) for up to 48 hrs
. Soon increases fitness
. May help correct insulin metabolism issues & target abs fat.

Aerobic
e.g. walking, running, cycling, swimming
. Longer training period
. May burn more calories during exercise, if it is lasts much longer than HIIT, but burns fewer afterwards
. It is easier to do for the less fit

Flexibility, Stability, Relaxation
e.g. yoga, stretching

The best exercise routine is one you enjoy and is sustainable.

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are especially recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

HOW to Exercise

If you are a very overweight unfit beginner:
. Check with your GP before starting exercise
. Start by walking 5-10 mins twice per day, gradually increase
. Try walk intervals: alternating 1 min faster pace, 1 min normal
. Build up to a brisk 30 mins daily walk and you will significantly improve your health & fitness
. Swimming is also good, preferably crawl or back stroke for less strain on back & joints.

Everyone Else:
Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve. But stop immediately if you feel any sharp pain.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

Efficiency / Intensity: This Study proved that at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less intense recovery periods

. Very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis)

. Increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

. May improve insulin metabolism, very important for health and abs fat.

. Reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT can be applied to cardio or to bodyweight exercises, at home or gym.
Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek (=HIIT with irregular intervals)

FAST Exercise

"No time" to exercise ?
Or want to boost fitness & fat-burning metabolism

Dr Mosely developed a FastExerciseProgram to complement his 5:2 WOE
His Fast HIIT and strength routines can significantly improve metabolism & fat-burning capability

Other scientists like Tabata have developed routines now wisely incorporated in training.

HIIT Fitness Blasts

A few mins per day, 3-5 days per week

START with 2 mins warmup then EITHER

Sprint or Rope-skipping intervals
. 1 minute sprinting / skipping @ max effort +90 secs jogging to recover
. Do 5 intervals

OR

Fast Blasts
Choose from:
Running, stationary bike @ low resistance, rope-skipping, burpees, jumping jacks, spotty dog, punching air or bag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps ... or any combination you like.

Choose type of Blast:

4-minute Blast
. 4 mins @ 90% effort

OR "Tabata" = 8 x intervals of 20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery @ rest or slow speed
( FreeTimerApp )

OR 2 x20-sec intervals=
. 20-sec @ 100% effort
. 2 mins walk to recover
. 20-sec @ 100% effort

END any HIIT or Fat Blast with a few mins cooldown walk / jog

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
Lift at home / in the gym weights area / in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of lifts
Sets are separated by brief rests
E.g. 3 sets of 12 reps = 36 lifts
Breathing: Inhale before lifting, exhale while lifting. Don't hold your breath.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups
Video

  • The best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups IncPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes
  • Bring your arms forward
  • Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical
  • Squat down as far as you can without knee pain or hunching your back
  • Push up from your heels, exhaling.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup / InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
Squat BentOverRow (press button "female")
BehindNeckPress (press button "female")
DeadLift

To increase Strength
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts

To Build Muscle
Lift lower weight, 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts

To Build Endurance
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight for 3-5 mins, preferably without pauses

BUM / GLUTES
Squats & lunges are excellent
Also this 2-min bodyweight workout especially for women, targeting the bum:
WorkYourBum

ABS
Choose the exercises & number of reps for your fitness level

The plank
. Start at 2 x 15 secs. Build up to 2 x 45 secs
. Advanced:

  1. Use TRX slings, picture 2

Side plank + hip raises
. If you can, keep the side of 1 foot plus 1 forearm on the floor, free arm straight up in the air, picture 3
. Easier - free hand on your hip. Easier still - keep calf & knee on the floor, instead of bent at the knees
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30

Leg raises
. Lie flat on your back, with legs bent to 90 degrees
. Lower the legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straight leg if you can) then raise again
. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 x 15
. Advanced:

  1. Lower both legs at the same time

Situps
. Hands forward to really work abs & avoid pulling the neck
. Alternatively, cross your arms over your chest
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30
. Advanced:

  1. Raise legs to 90 degrees & bring them towards you when you situp (double crunch)
  2. Legs nearly flat on the floor
  3. One leg bent at 90 degrees, the other held straight 1" above the floor
  4. Hold a weight disc / dumbbells / barbell above your head

Angled Situps
. Lie on your back and rest one ankle on the opposite knee
. Angled situp so your opposite elbow touches the knee
. Keep the other hand be in the air by your knee, or alternatively supporting your head - do NOT pull on the neck
. Build up to 3 sets of 20 each side
. Advanced:

  1. with dumbell
  2. Situps with legs rotated 90 degrees to the left, resting on floor. Then repeat set with legs rotated to the right, on floor
  3. Lie on the floor, rotate legs 90 degrees to the left. Raise and lower legs like that, keeping back on the floor. Repeat set with legs on other side
  4. Keep legs raised & rotated to the left and do situps (double side crunch) Repeat with legs raised & rotated to the right

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve GRIP STRENGTH GripStrength , GripBuild

RUNNERS

. Sprinting improves fitness
. Regular 5 - 10 km runs burn significant fat, especially fasted

Running illustrates the "J or S-curve" effect, where increasing exercise improves health, up to a certain point, after which health worsens e.g. MayoClinic , RiceUni , JMed :

. Running 20 mins improves immune system

. A run of 90+ mins may weaken the immune system for up to 3 days.
With insufficient recovery periods, the damage is cumulative.
Elite runners have immune systems that handle that strain

. Long races 20k+ may cause micro-tears to the heart muscle in some runners, hence a 2-week recovery period is recommended.

CALCULATORS:
Calories Burned for specific exercises: ExerciseCals
Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Running Calories burned: RunningCals
Running Standards: Age-RelatedRunCalculator
TDEE 24hr activity times & body fat TDEE-Detail

5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
CeciledeVolanges · 12/09/2016 06:59

It does seem a tiny achievement compared to the others on this thread... I've just done 30 (3x10) before getting on my bike. I just wanted you all to know I haven't given up!

Breadandwine · 12/09/2016 11:51

That's brilliant, Cecile!

It does seem a tiny achievement compared to the others on this thread

But it's not! The thing is, your 3 sets of 10 are the equivalent of my 200 in 7 minutes - we're both pushing ourselves as far as we can.

I'm just a bit further along than you. Don't forget, only 3 years ago, I couldn't even do one press up! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 12/09/2016 22:13

You are making excellent progress, Cecile because you are working hard and continually improving your PBs
We all started with just 1 pressup, then built up over time.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 13/09/2016 13:37

Afternoon all,

Well done Cecile! Your pressups progress is fab - I'll get there eventually too!

Another running PB today - up to 9.5mins constant run with the warm up / cool down either side! So it was one consistent run!! Grin Time to start looking to extend the route a bit - eek!

Also had a go at yoga last night - just a beginners video on you tube to see if I like it for now, but I really enjoyed. I'm going to try and do it regularly to help with my core issues (hopefully?)... am figuring it will help towards my one day doing pressups properly again too!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2016 12:32

Well done on another pb, MrD
Maybe add sprint intervals to your run, as your daily Fat Blast

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 22/09/2016 08:17

Well done, MrD! A PB is always something to celebrate!

I had one myself last night. A friend of mine was telling me he was right behind me, now doing 170 press ups in his regular routine - I limit myself to 200.

I thought I'd see how many I could do in a minute - last time I tried I'd managed 70. I know from experience that, when doing extended sets (of press ups - it doesn't seem to work with pull ups!) each one is better than the last. So I did 3 warm up sets of 20, 30 and 40 before my one minute attempt.

Drumroll....

77 press ups inside one minute!

So I'll put that in my mate's pipe and let him smoke it! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2016 11:04

You're the pressup champ, B&W Star

I've been so impressed by my XCO classes, that I bought the XCO weights.
Bit pricey, but worth it to me.
I'll use them for my 20 min cooldown walks after lifting, since the classes provide sufficient for the main strength movements. Also if snow, storms or monsoons cause me to skip gym some evenings.

I'm a gym rat, so I no longer keep much equipment at home, just:
pullup bars, a 12 kg kettlebell, a few handweights and now these:

5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
OP posts:
CeciledeVolanges · 23/09/2016 09:30

Thanks OohMrDarcy :)
And BreadandWine is truly an inspiration too -more than one press up a second for a minute! Amazing :)

CeciledeVolanges · 23/09/2016 09:33

Also OohMrDarcy I love yoga. My feet definitely don't touch the floor in downward dog but I used to hate that pose and now it's OK! I'm not one for relaxation and mindfulness but I find yoga really helpful actually. We are lucky because we get free classes at work and the teacher is great.

Breadandwine · 24/09/2016 01:31

Thanks, Cecile! As I never get tired of saying, if you can do 5 reps one time, you can do 6 the next - that's all I've done! Grin

And I'm now applying that to my pull ups - after getting back into it for the past couple of weeks, I had a PB tonight.

5 sets of 6, 6, 7, 7, 5. But with several minutes between each set. Once I get to sets of ten, I'll start decrease the rest periods as I've done with the press ups.Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 27/09/2016 21:17

Excellent progress with the pullups, B&W
Maybe you'll eventually have a sponsored pullup too !

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 29/09/2016 13:11

Quick update to say the foam race was AMAZING fun - absolutely hilarious start to finish and even ran between every obstacle! Grin

Got a particularly funny photo of me falling out of one of the obstacles too - we literally laughed our way between them!

Go you on the pullups B&W

Cecile - I'm enjoying the yoga definitely and will do it more I think... I'd love free classes!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2016 14:07

What a lovely experience, MrD and very bonding too

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 01/10/2016 20:12

Great stuff, MrD! Running between obstacles, eh?

Had a pullup PB the other night - sets of 7,9,8,7,7. I'd only ever managed 7 before. Smile

Breadandwine · 01/10/2016 21:40

It's been two years since I checked my Vo2Max:

At age 79, my expected fitness level is 33 Vo2Max

However, I have the fitness of a 47yr-old, and my actual fitness level is 45 Vo2Max

That compares with 2 years ago, aged 77, when my age was apparently 47, and my Vo2Max was 45.

So, 2 years on and I don't appear to have aged at all! Grin

CeciledeVolanges · 06/10/2016 12:20

Thanks for the update MrDarcy - so glad you had fun!

BigChocFrenzy · 06/10/2016 12:27

Wow, that's excellent news, B&W
No aging - we've got to patent this WOL Grin

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/10/2016 12:28

Pressups & IF, I mean

OP posts:
Breadandwine · 07/10/2016 20:07

The wonder drug.

More confirmation that exercise is essential for good health, in this morning's Mirror.

Mymotherwasright · 18/10/2016 12:37

Coming to join you here as well. I'm still at the building up to 30mins brisk walk stage.
I had been doing jillian Michael's 30day beginners shred over the summer but it was killing my knees so I think I need to toughen my legs up before I try squats and lunges again.

Woodifer · 18/10/2016 13:05

Mymother - I find squats better for my knees than lunges - so you may like to try just the squats - or substituting the lunges for more squats (no weights extra - just good technique - and google/youtube technique)

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2016 09:38

MyMother I agree that lunges may be more strain on the knee joints

I suggest you start with bodyweight squats - i.e. no weights
The photo explains good technique, but only go as far down as you can safely, i.e. you should not feel pain in the joints.
You'll find you can build up strength and gradually go lower down.

Important to avoid knee pain:

  • point your bum backwards, keeping your back straight
  • keep knees behind toes
  • keep your weight more on your heels.
5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
OP posts:
grannygroan · 29/10/2016 12:55

Dipping my toe back into the exercise thread - I am still mentally trying to pull myself together to get off my backside and do something - all such thoughts obviously from the comfort of the sofa.

Mymother - I have the JM30day shred dvd and only ever got as far as level 2 - I found the same exercises every day got very boring, although I did see a definite improvement in my fitness.

BigChoc you suggested on the 5:2 thread that I "Aim for a 20 min daily walk and gradually add in 2-3 times per week x 20 mins lifting medium weights". The only weights I have are little hand held weights - 0.5kg; 1kg and 2kg. Oh, and a 3kg ball. Should I be aiming to add some sort of weight in every conditioning exercise I do?

I do like the look of the Dr Levi exercise workyourbum youtube clip and he seems to have some other very interesting workouts too - the plank one he has looks like 'fun', I think I'll make that one my goal to achieve before the end of the year.

I'd also like to get back into running, just gentle jogging at first. I had a very bad relationship with my half marathon training (I'm blaming the BP meds I was put on which wired a "stop this now" switch into my brain). If it wasn't for signing up for a charity place (with very personal reason for running for them) I would have quit several times. So I'd like to re-acquaint myself with the joy I used to have for running for pleasure, to clear the cobwebs from my head!

So I need to make myself a proper plan and will then run it by for comment - also need to diarise my sessions on my phone with an alert, otherwise I'll forget.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/10/2016 00:08

Granny I suggest you vary the exercises, to have a different program on the 3 days.

Concentrate on bodyweight exercises, which use the large muscle groups, with good form:
pressups, squats, lunges (if knees ok), triceps on a step, plank, situps - straight and angled - with hands forward

On one day you can add exercises standing with the 2 kg weights:
front (deltoid) raise, side raise, bentover side raise, bentover row, triceps, biceps & reverse biceps.

5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
OP posts:
grannygroan · 31/10/2016 21:48

Thanks BC. Did my 20 mins today with weights and my arms are already aching! Had knee surgery three years ago so the only lunges I ever do are static ones, and these rarely.

Discovered I have Jillian Michael's No More Trouble Zones DVD so I think working my way through 2-3 of these twice a week would be a good idea too - left to my own devices I can easily be persuaded to take too many rests!

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