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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too

947 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 01/05/2015 22:31

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

Increasing your % muscle and / or reducing your % body fat lowers the risk of death from all causes LowerRiskMuscle

Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve BendAge

Recent Research showed that lack of exercise is twice as likely to lead to premature death as being obese (BMI 30 -35)

Body Fat, Exercise & Diet
People who maintain their weight through diet alone without exercise are likely to have major deposits of visceral fat (the more dangerous kind around organs), even if BMI is ok.

They are TOFIs (Thin Outside, Fat Inside)

A MRI study found that:
45 % of women and nearly 60% of men with “healthy” BMI, had excessive levels of visceral fat i.e. clinically overweight

A Can J Card study showed visceral fat can be burned off via exercise, even if weight is unchanged (increased lean mass)

Hormesis

Hormesis, see Mattson , BlackSwan and Stronger is cutting edge science for nutrition & fitness.

Its principles are that alternating between “extremes” - e.g. feast & fast (5:2 / IF) , intense training & rest (HIIT) - makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain , Hormesis-Edge , and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

Fasted training

i.e. training on FDs (Fast Days), seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF.
Most experienced exercisers soon manage fasted training without loss of performance for sessions of up to 90 mins.

TYPES of Exercise

Main types: Aerobic, anaerobic, flexibility.

All exercise will burn fat, the more intense the faster the fat burn

Anaerobic
e.g. HIIT (see below), sprints, strength training
. Shorter training period
. Increases the RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) for up to 48 hrs
. Soon increases fitness
. May help correct insulin metabolism issues & target abs fat.

Aerobic
e.g. walking, running, cycling, swimming
. Longer training period
. May burn more calories during exercise, if it is lasts much longer than HIIT, but burns fewer afterwards
. It is easier to do for the less fit

Flexibility, Stability, Relaxation
e.g. yoga, stretching

The best exercise routine is one you enjoy and is sustainable.

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are especially recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

HOW to Exercise

If you are a very overweight unfit beginner:
. Check with your GP before starting exercise
. Start by walking 5-10 mins twice per day, gradually increase
. Try walk intervals: alternating 1 min faster pace, 1 min normal
. Build up to a brisk 30 mins daily walk and you will significantly improve your health & fitness
. Swimming is also good, preferably crawl or back stroke for less strain on back & joints.

Everyone Else:
Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve. But stop immediately if you feel any sharp pain.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !

Efficiency / Intensity: This Study proved that at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less intense recovery periods

. Very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis)

. Increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

. May improve insulin metabolism, very important for health and abs fat.

. Reduces risk of heart problems more than doing lower intensity SteadyState , pp. 31-34.

HIIT can be applied to cardio or to bodyweight exercises, at home or gym.
Most gyms offer HIIT classes, e.g. spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek (=HIIT with irregular intervals)

FAST Exercise

"No time" to exercise ?
Or want to boost fitness & fat-burning metabolism

Dr Mosely developed a FastExerciseProgram to complement his 5:2 WOE
His Fast HIIT and strength routines can significantly improve metabolism & fat-burning capability

Other scientists like Tabata have developed routines now wisely incorporated in training.

HIIT Fitness Blasts

A few mins per day, 3-5 days per week

START with 2 mins warmup then EITHER

Sprint or Rope-skipping intervals
. 1 minute sprinting / skipping @ max effort +90 secs jogging to recover
. Do 5 intervals

OR

Fast Blasts
Choose from:
Running, stationary bike @ low resistance, rope-skipping, burpees, jumping jacks, spotty dog, punching air or bag, step-ups, swimming, squats, lunges, pressups, tricep dips, situps ... or any combination you like.

Choose type of Blast:

4-minute Blast
. 4 mins @ 90% effort

OR "Tabata" = 8 x intervals of 20 secs @ 100% effort + 10 secs recovery @ rest or slow speed
( FreeTimerApp )

OR 2 x20-sec intervals=
. 20-sec @ 100% effort
. 2 mins walk to recover
. 20-sec @ 100% effort

END any HIIT or Fat Blast with a few mins cooldown walk / jog

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

Helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.
Lift at home / in the gym weights area / in a pump class.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of lifts
Sets are separated by brief rests
E.g. 3 sets of 12 reps = 36 lifts
Breathing: Inhale before lifting, exhale while lifting. Don't hold your breath.

WARNING
Do not lift massively heavy barbells, more than bodyweight, unless you are really fit with good technique.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Press ups
Video

  • The best upper body exercise
  • Keep attempting one full pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms
  • Hand Release Pressups are good to build up strength for full ones
  • Also build up via inclined pressups IncPress , see bottom of wiki page
  • To increase the number of pushups IncNum

ATG Arse To Grass bodyweight squat

  • The best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes
  • Bring your arms forward
  • Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical
  • Squat down as far as you can without knee pain or hunching your back
  • Push up from your heels, exhaling.

Pullups

  • Very few women can do full ones, but assisted ones build excellent muscle
  • Work the same muscles with the much easier Australian pullup / InvertedRow

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups:
Squat BentOverRow (press button "female")
BehindNeckPress (press button "female")
DeadLift

To increase Strength
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts

To Build Muscle
Lift lower weight, 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts

To Build Endurance
Lift lower (NOT Girlie) weight for 3-5 mins, preferably without pauses

BUM / GLUTES
Squats & lunges are excellent
Also this 2-min bodyweight workout especially for women, targeting the bum:
WorkYourBum

ABS
Choose the exercises & number of reps for your fitness level

The plank
. Start at 2 x 15 secs. Build up to 2 x 45 secs
. Advanced:

  1. Use TRX slings, picture 2

Side plank + hip raises
. If you can, keep the side of 1 foot plus 1 forearm on the floor, free arm straight up in the air, picture 3
. Easier - free hand on your hip. Easier still - keep calf & knee on the floor, instead of bent at the knees
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30

Leg raises
. Lie flat on your back, with legs bent to 90 degrees
. Lower the legs one at a time to 1" above the floor (straight leg if you can) then raise again
. Start at 3 sets of 3 each leg. Build up to 3 x 15
. Advanced:

  1. Lower both legs at the same time

Situps
. Hands forward to really work abs & avoid pulling the neck
. Alternatively, cross your arms over your chest
. Start at 3 sets of 3. Build up to 3 x 30
. Advanced:

  1. Raise legs to 90 degrees & bring them towards you when you situp (double crunch)
  2. Legs nearly flat on the floor
  3. One leg bent at 90 degrees, the other held straight 1" above the floor
  4. Hold a weight disc / dumbbells / barbell above your head

Angled Situps
. Lie on your back and rest one ankle on the opposite knee
. Angled situp so your opposite elbow touches the knee
. Keep the other hand be in the air by your knee, or alternatively supporting your head - do NOT pull on the neck
. Build up to 3 sets of 20 each side
. Advanced:

  1. with dumbell
  2. Situps with legs rotated 90 degrees to the left, resting on floor. Then repeat set with legs rotated to the right, on floor
  3. Lie on the floor, rotate legs 90 degrees to the left. Raise and lower legs like that, keeping back on the floor. Repeat set with legs on other side
  4. Keep legs raised & rotated to the left and do situps (double side crunch) Repeat with legs raised & rotated to the right

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight-bearing exercises that load the bone along its length of these types:

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc

Squats are much better for osteoporosis than lunges, also for knees:
The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density, as it does not load bones along their length. Osteo

KETTLEBELLS Kettle
Beginners:
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

Improve GRIP STRENGTH GripStrength , GripBuild

RUNNERS

. Sprinting improves fitness
. Regular 5 - 10 km runs burn significant fat, especially fasted

Running illustrates the "J or S-curve" effect, where increasing exercise improves health, up to a certain point, after which health worsens e.g. MayoClinic , RiceUni , JMed :

. Running 20 mins improves immune system

. A run of 90+ mins may weaken the immune system for up to 3 days.
With insufficient recovery periods, the damage is cumulative.
Elite runners have immune systems that handle that strain

. Long races 20k+ may cause micro-tears to the heart muscle in some runners, hence a 2-week recovery period is recommended.

CALCULATORS:
Calories Burned for specific exercises: ExerciseCals
Fitness Calculators: 52FastExercise
Estimate fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Running Calories burned: RunningCals
Running Standards: Age-RelatedRunCalculator
TDEE 24hr activity times & body fat TDEE-Detail

5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
5:2 / IF Exercise & Fitness Thread Number 3: Advice and information for those following Intermittent Fasting .... and anyone else too
OP posts:
Thread gallery
56
BigChocFrenzy · 14/05/2015 13:09

Exercise, then spa is a great combination, confused

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 14/05/2015 16:45

Talking of tabata, I did some sets this morning. I was wondering what I could do other than the butterfly situps which would target abs while providing suitable exertion. Any ideas please?

BigChocFrenzy · 15/05/2015 15:02

Errol Abs for Tabata:
. Raise your hip up and down with the side plank, as in OP picture 3. Swap sides each Tabata set.
. Holding front plank position, bring one knee forward towards elbow, then back and straighten the leg so it is horizontal above the floor. Keep repeating. Either alternate legs, or swap sides in the next Tabata.
. From OP "ABS" section, do angled situps or leg raises

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 15/05/2015 16:07

Thanks BC. Flowers Although side planks are hard, I'm not sure if they get my HR elevated, but I'll try them next time. The second one sounds similar to 'mountain climbers' which I do already, though maybe not focussing on really contracting abs.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/05/2015 16:43

Try holding your heaviest dumbbell to increase effort for standard situps.

Concentrate on holding the plank to fully activate the abs, so then bringing your knee forward / sideways, still keeping your body horizontal in a line. This should be far more abs-oriented than mountain climbs, where your bum is probably at more than 45 degrees.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/05/2015 16:46

btw, I find my HR increases when I move my hip up & down from side plank, with upper leg still extended in the air. You can also add a weight to the upwards hand, if it's too easy.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 15/05/2015 23:43

I think it's more that I find side planks too hard to do such that they increase HR not too easy!Grin Maybe I'll try adding a sort of cooldown set of various planks etc rather than trying to incorporate them in the tabata proper as yet.

mildlyacquiescent · 17/05/2015 10:04

stripey, if I am feeling unenthusiAstic, I tell myself 'just fifteen mins. ' By that time, my heartrate and I don't want to stop.

I also

  • do hated exercises first
  • give myself a little clap and pep talk out loud and
  • log all my minutes in myfomyfitnesspal. I love the graph showing my minutes for the last ninety days. I don't log warmumps, cooldowns, walks, dancing on anything but real sweaty exercise, so it is motivating to see my hard work documented.
BigChocFrenzy · 17/05/2015 22:26

Errol To get better at something, do lots of it:

In the advanced bodybuilding classes, we do each exercise for one full song.
So for abs, we do say 5 mins of side planks (forearm and side of one foot on floor) continually swapping sides after each 30 up & down hip raises.

This is at the other end of the lifting spectrum to doing a few sets of 5 reps each of a v heavy weight, because side plank isn't that tough, once you can do the first 30.

We do the same 4-5 mins endurance loading ifor each exercise in the barbell class: usually squats, lunges, bentover row, lower back, military press, biceps, triceps, plus 2 sets alternating 45 secs pressups with 45 secs mountain climbs.
As always, we aim to cause micro-tears in the muscle fibres, so that the muscles rebuild themselves afterwards and become stronger.
I also do short sets of heavier weights on my own on another day, so my muscles get a range of loading.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 19/05/2015 14:05

Humph... I did something to my shoulder at the end of the week before last and trying to do anything plank-based was hurting it today. (and also obv my plan on doing free weights is on hold). But I did tabatas today doing other things - so lots of squats, step-ups etc, situps and vigorous bike crunches.

mildlyacquiescent · 20/05/2015 06:56

Poor Errol. Get better soon! I can't think of a single JM workout that doesn't involve planks, so that is extra tough. Great you can keep exercising though.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/05/2015 11:33

Hope your shoulder recovers very soon, Errol Just rest and gentle movement fir the shoulders.
Put JM in the naughty corner and take the opportunity to really work your lower two-thirds: ATG squats, lunges, leg raises, abs
Not just HIIT, check out some of the OP routines and do lots of long hard sets to build up your strength< sadistic glimmer in her eyes >

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 20/05/2015 14:04

It's just so annoying - it's a barely there thing if I'm not loading it. It wasn't any of the JMs that caused it BTW. Think it's persisting because for various reasons I've been having to do more driving than usual (the wedding, a work trip and chauffeuring DD for GCSes). I really wanted to work on upper body strength ready for the belated start of the watersports season. Oh well, need core for that too and if I ever hope to be able to do a beach start (really hard if you're short) I need rock-solid high stepups.

CarrotPuff · 22/05/2015 17:06

Waves shyly from the corner

Hi, can I join in?

I'm not doing much exercise at the moment, but doing a 30 day squat challenge at the moment. I'm currently on day 9 (100 squats) and now and again I do some press ups. I can sometimes do 1 or 2 not very deep ones off the floor, but more often than not not really Blush so I'm doing them off a chair at the moment. I also did some lunges a couple days ago, but again it's all very as and when at the moment.

I can definitely add some more exercise but I keep forgetting, hopefully being on this thread will inspire me Smile

ErrolTheDragon · 22/05/2015 17:16

Hi Carrot! Wondering if I should belatedly join the squat challenge as I need to leave my upper body out of things a bit longer. I did tabatas this morning - two sets of legs (high stepups, low fast ones, squats, plie hops, lunges); two of various abs things and then a final set of supermaps and a few 'fire hydrants' trying to put weight all on left arm.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/05/2015 17:27

< waves madly to carrot > Don't be shy; we all had to start at the beginning and build up our fitness.
You'll be surprised how much diference the first few weeks can make, in what you can do.

That squat challenge is a great start; make the squats as deep as you can, to really work your lower body and make those problem areas shape up.
The OP describes how you can build up to full pressups, so have a read through and see what appeals.

OP posts:
MazzleDazzle · 25/05/2015 18:36

Hi folks,

Carrot I started the squat challenge, but didn't make it to the end. I never see these things through to completion! Like BC says, you need to make sure your squat form is good. I discovered I was doing it all wrong!

Since I was last on here I've completed a beginner's kettlebell induction course and now go to a class every week. My instructor is a KB pro - classes are limited to 8 people and we lift BIG. I still go for one PT session per week too.

I dusted off my Shred DVD today and added a 1 min. plank and 20 leg raises at the end.

Now that my working days have changed I'm looking forward to getting back to my circuit training class too.

My press ups are still rubbish though! Have tried and tried. My PT has tried and tried. It's very frustrating! My sister manages no problem and I'm much stronger than she is!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/05/2015 11:06

Maz Re pressups: are you keeping your core absolutely rigid, to hold your body in a straight line ?
Most folk who can't do pressups have either insufficient upper body strength (doesn't sound like you - or Errol ) or they hinge in the middle, e.g. bum sticks in the air so more a V-shape than straight line.

Check out the OP Pressup section for tips: work on the inclined pressup and hand release pressups. To do full pressups, you need to be able to do both of these, several reps. So, if either is too tough, work on it.

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 26/05/2015 11:17

I think with me it's a bit of both TBH.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/05/2015 11:19

Squat Technique See this rather nice chap in the diagram:

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/05/2015 11:23

Ok, Errol So you need to

  1. strengthen abs (plank with bum in line) and upper body, especially shoulders (bench press, standing military press) and
  2. Practice both inclined and hand release pressups. You probably won't manage full ones until you can rattle off several of both.
OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 26/05/2015 11:26

I know... it's what I was working on a couple of weeks ago. Oh well... enough procrastinating, I need to get moving and do some squats, situps etc at least.

CarrotPuff · 26/05/2015 15:56

Well I forgot to do the squats for 3 days or so, so I'm back on 100 today. Thanks BC, will keep persevering with the pressups!

CarrotPuff · 26/05/2015 16:09

I can hold plank for 30secs+ - am I doing it wrong? I thought beginners shouldn't be able to for so long? Do you rest on your palms or on your elbows?

ErrolTheDragon · 26/05/2015 16:39

You can do some of each - resting on your forearms or on your palms with arms straight. If you're doing 'plank based' exercises such as plank jacks it'll generally be the latter but if it's static then (IMO) the former is tougher.

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