IF / ADF / 4:3 / 5:2 / 6:1 / 16:8 ~ Maintaining at a healthy weight ~ Chapter 5

[TalkinPeace]

This thread is for those of us who have been practicing IF (Intermittent Fasting) for quite a while ( it being nearly 2 years since the Michael Mosely TV programme aired ) and are now at, or nearing, their target healthy weight.
It's also for anyone who is doing it for the health benefits alone.

How do we mix fasts and a stable food intake while having little or no weight to lose?
How do we ensure that this WOL keeps us at the healthy weight long term rather than revert to yoyo games?
How do we ensure that we keep ourselves looking great rather than just thin?

More and more of us have been maintaining at our original goal weight for many months, and others are joining all the time.
Obviously, the more the merrier!
It is also worth considering whether a second, leaner target might be achievable.

You'll find the first four maintenance threads and all the main 5:2 threads for posters practising IF to lose weight here Fasting / 5:2 on the diet forum. We're currently on thread no. 46, but there is a new main thread every 2-3 weeks.

There are three other associated threads:
This one, which is an absolute goldmine of Tips and Links on how to practice IF, and the research behind it.

And here is a treasure trove of 5:2 recipes, mostly low calorie for fasting days, but there are also recipes for when you want to treat yourself. And, now we're maintaining, we'll need more of these!

Since I started the last Maintainers thread the importance of exercise has come even more to the fore, as part of our general health and to help weight loss. BigChocFrenzys thread is here

This MattsonLonghiCellMetabolism 2013 paper does a superb scientific analysis of fasting in yeast, animal and human studies, with good diagrams
Great list of references at the end.

Their conclusions indicate:
. Fasting reduces the risk of many age-related diseases / conditions, more than any other peer-reviewed method.
. A fasting regime could be tailored to the individual
. Fasts of more than 3 days need medical supervision
. Fasting benefits would be less for a junky diet. Lower protein provides additional health benefits in the maintenance stage.
(I consider low body fat the priority for health, so stay high protein if that helps make weight loss or maintenance sustainable)
. Whether fasting is beneficial for age 65+ depends on the individual (obv our B&W thrives on it !)
. Excess fatty food and / or excess sugar causes T2 and other diseases / conditions. What they call a "gluttonous" diet. So, more complex than just the sugar or just the fat.

Life expectancy at age 65 has only increased by about 3 years since 1945 (US article, but I'd expect UK to be similar), HuffPost :

"The fallacy arises from the fact that life expectancy is measured from birth, but years in retirement is measured from about age 65.
Reductions in infant and child mortality have been dramatic during the 20th century, but 65-year-olds today are not strikingly healthier or longer-living than 65-year-olds of the previous generation or two"

Shows we need tools for healthy aging.
IF is my chosen strategy wrt diet, with intense exercise being an equally important component.

Interesting, BC!

I've come to the conclusion that there are 3 pillars to optimum health.

IF (of course), HIIT and weight-bearing exercise. Given those 3 and you won't go wrong in my book.

Your Waist & Your Dementia Risk
A large scale Dementia Study showed:
even within healthy BMI range, central obesity in middle age increases risk of dementia.
This is independent of T2 or CVD. A high BMI increases the risk further.
Illustrates yet again why waist is a more important goal than SV

Fascinating, BC!

With a couple of very interesting links on there, as well!

More science news or maybe for those who like their tipple:

It is really another example of how less reliable population surveys are over controlled lab tests.
Unfortunately, wrt human trials, you can't lock people in a lab for 40 years.

Ok. Remember all the studies showing that moderate drinkers on average lived longer than non-drinkers ? Right ? Um, wrong. Oops !

Researchers in a few science papers have checked all the surveys again and then compared moderate drinkers to those who have NEVER drunk alcohol.
i.e. they removed those who used to drink, but gave it up.
That makes a LOT of difference, because it removes those who gave up for health issues, at least some of which were caused by alcohol.

Turns out that moderate drinking, compared to NEVER being a drinker, is only better for women aged 65+, not for any other groups

So it is only better (on average) for women who have survived to 65 without being killed off, whether by alcohol or anything else.
Not for young or moddle-aged women. Not for men.

I think that with all these surveys, genetics are overlooked.
My dad is a very healthy 80 years old. Has never smoked, but has always drunk perhaps over the recommended limits per week.
He exercises regularly and is as fit in mind as in body at 80.
I don't smoke, but like drinking beer and wine and drink over the recommended limits each week, not excessively but definitely over government limits. I run most days and even win races when I race with people much younger than me (I'll be 50 years in November) because my heart, as well as my legs, is fit.
That's thanks to genetics not to my lifestyle.

Surveys can only be over a population, not able to consider individual lifestyle or genetics. That's why they are limited to examining population trends.
I just wanted to correct the widespread idea that not drinking is less healthy. I've heard the "oh, you must have wine for a healthy mediteranean diet"

A prerequisite for elite athletes now is that they are 100% focused on their diet, training and lifestyle, to squeeze out that extra 10% of performance that separates them from really good amateurs.
That absolutely doesn't mean that the rest of us are unhealthy, just that we are strict say 80-90 % of the time, instead of 100 %.
Maybe B&W and I could manage 1,000s of pressups instead of a couple hundred

[Written before you posted, BC]

Anybody see the headline in this yesterday's S.Express? “Statins age you faster”?

Not that I take them. I’m of the ‘Veggies are as good as statins - without the side-effects’ school of thought. But I’ve never thought that popping pills routinely is a good idea anyway.

Not what I came on to talk about.

No, I want to talk about Nature v Nurture in the light of your post, Anglaise

My parents died at the ages of 93 and 94, so I’ve got good genes, in that regard, just as you have – and that’s down to Nature. But I don’t feel I can just leave my future to chance – I have to nurture them and make sure I get the best out of those genes.

So I practice IF, HIIT and do body weights and weight lifting (I also think that being a vegan helps). And I consciously limit my alcohol intake.

However, I do live on the edge as regards to the over-use of my frying pan and I definitely over-indulge when it comes to sugar (chocoholic with a bad marzipan habit) and late-night snacking.

However, taking everything into account I’m pretty content with my life choices. As indeed, you’ve indicated in your post, Anglaise. Your running, etc, allows you some slack in other areas.

If we were couch potatoes our genes may not save us!

You're right about the 80-90% effort, BC. 100% would take all the fun out of life.

About the press ups - you're talking about me in a previous life, of course. Haven't done one since mid August! :(

But, my rehab is going well - the wounds are healing nicely and I intend to do some walking round the pool, shortly. Will leave the press ups, etc, for another week or so. My new goal is 1000 press ups in a day by Christmas!

'Twas my b/day today and all my presents began with B - batteries (rechargeable), biscuits, books and booze + a lovely big bar of (Polish) chocolate from my daughter, vegan with no palm oil!

We'll have an Indian for dinner tonight with beer and Benedictine!

I had a lovely card and a video message from my daughter and 2-yr-old Oscar. But would any of you mums be surprised to learn that the card (+ presents) from my son is (are) "In the post, dad. Sorry!"

[He's a lovely lad in every other way, I hasten to add!]

Argh! Our Indian meal, ordered 45 minutes ago, has just arrived.

But it's the wrong order!

So we rang up and they're bringing round the right one. Exactly when, we're not sure.

Prior to this WOL, I'd. have been climbing the wall - but now I'm completely zen about the situation. These things happen, and all that.

My only concern is that, we recognised pretty quickly it wasn't our order, and, without opening anything up, we put everything back in the bag. We just hope that whoever got our order did exactly the same!

In the meantime, I shall have another beer - I've already had two, so I'll make this a shandy!

Happy Birthday, B&W !

I hope your dinner arrived ok. Watch out for teethmarks in your chapatis
(not something I ever thought I'd post !)

Hi chaps, I let this thread slip off my radar.

I'm having delivery Indian this evening : will order it at 5:30 and it will turn up some time after 7 but it will taste amazing.

The thing I find scary is going to supermarkets in poor areas and seeing the seriously obese children - 5 year olds with a belly overhang and thighs so fat that cannot put their feet together

their epigenetics will be utterly screwed and I wonder if they will ever be able to get thin

I could lose my last half stone of flab in a month if I wanted. But I like wine so will keep my subcutaneous padding around my hips!

25% of UK adults are obese and another 37% are overweight
In contrast, Japan has one of the lowest obesity rates in the world, only 3.5%. But one way they did this is horrendous:

Since 2008, companies in Japan are required by the "metabo" law to measure and report the waist circumference of all employees and retirees aged 40 - 74.
Local government / GPs measure all other citizens within this age range.

Anyone over the recommended limits has to receive stern counselling.
A company may be fined many $ millions if they don't reach specific waist targets. I think the individual overweight person just gets nagged, not fined.

thought I would touch base again with the maintainers :-) still fitting into the (no longer new) smaller bra and size 10 jeans. Very very happy to have discovered this WOE three years ago. I'm planning some big life changes now that I'm finally 60 - involving lots more travel and work in the garden, enough sitting in front of a computer screen sorting out other people's problems - feeling a bit pissed off with a colleague who booked leave without making sure there was cover and I've ended up trying to sort out her stuff as well as my own .

Life, I have decided, is too short and I'm ready for another challenge :-) Feeling good about my body definitely helps with motivation. Fast day tomorrow I think, but will be broken with a nice meal and as I'm going to see friends. - so more a 16:8 day!

How's everyone else doing?

Hi catsrus - and all 5:2 maintainers!

Good to see you're doing well, cats - as am I, still at my goal weight of the low 9sts that I achieved over 3 years ago, now.

I expect to come out of this feasting period the same weight I went in, with a judicious use of 16:8 and the odd FD. But I will indulge myself without any guilt!

Thought this thread needed bringing back to life - 6 weeks since it was active!

Hi all, can I join you in maintaining?
I did check in on the 5:2 losing weight thread a few months ago but it moves too fast to keep up with and now I'm 6 stones lighter and at goal.
I've only been maintaining for a week and so happy that I ate normally and didn't put on any weight.
I've decided on sticking with just one fast day a week to maintain and I'm still logging on mfp for now.

That's brilliant, Definite! Well done you. Was that all on 5:2?

Whatever, you, like the rest of us, now have the techniques to keep that weight off forever.

Enjoy your guilt-free indulgences over the next few days, then take up the reins again when it's all over. That's what I shall do!

Hi Definite welcome to this gang.
I'm feeling bloated and flabby at the minute - but the weather over Crimble was so dire that we were all cooped up indoors ......
trekking round the sales tomorrow

It was all 5:2 but I was very mindful on nfds too.
I've maintained over Christmas! I'm amazed, and I've been stuck in and pinching chocolates off the dcs pretty much the whole holidays.

Hellooooooooo! It's been a while but I've got that post Christmas period stodginess so I'm here to declare myself on the January wagon and back to proper 5:2. Need to lose a fair few pounds before I'm back to maintaining. I've had real life fasting friends hence not hanging out here for ages, but I fear we've become lost our discipline and positively over indulged in cheese and wine fests

All good fun, but time to uncover those muscles from their soft hiding places. Lovely muscles.

Fast day is tomorrow, to co-incide with being back to routine.

WooHoo, Betsy!

How nice to see you again. I'm sure you've got all the techniques and methods you need to get you back on track very quickly!

As for me, I've just spent the 4th Xmas in a row without gaining weight - over three years using the same hole in my belt!

evening all!
B&W, TIP, Betsy, Bigchoc and everyone

Well I've overdone the choc (cheese and lots of other things). So need to get back on the wagon.

2015 has been very busy. And looks like this year will be as well. Won't bore you all with my major construction programme. The DC are well and getting bigger and the back chat is coming along!

As I need to ahem lose about a stone (bit more actually) and have a beach holiday looming in 6 weeks time, I had my first FD today.

Planning to start the old Jillian Michaels 30 day shred this week too.

It's nice to see you all. And to see you're all doing so well.

Good for you B&W! I'm afraid every summer holiday and xmas break = at least a 10lb rise for me, and I hadn't really recovered from my summer excesses yet, just maintained the rise.

However, I'm back on it. I've had a minor operation which has put me slightly out of action lately but I'm all sorted now and should be more powerful that ever! I hope. And no, it wasn't a TKD injury

MrsF It sounds like we may be in similar cheese and chocolate fuelled boats and wine in my case