IF / ADF / 4:3 / 5:2 / 6:1 / 16:8 ~ Maintaining at a healthy weight ~ Chapter 5

[TalkinPeace]

This thread is for those of us who have been practicing IF (Intermittent Fasting) for quite a while ( it being nearly 2 years since the Michael Mosely TV programme aired ) and are now at, or nearing, their target healthy weight.
It's also for anyone who is doing it for the health benefits alone.

How do we mix fasts and a stable food intake while having little or no weight to lose?
How do we ensure that this WOL keeps us at the healthy weight long term rather than revert to yoyo games?
How do we ensure that we keep ourselves looking great rather than just thin?

More and more of us have been maintaining at our original goal weight for many months, and others are joining all the time.
Obviously, the more the merrier!
It is also worth considering whether a second, leaner target might be achievable.

You'll find the first four maintenance threads and all the main 5:2 threads for posters practising IF to lose weight here Fasting / 5:2 on the diet forum. We're currently on thread no. 46, but there is a new main thread every 2-3 weeks.

There are three other associated threads:
This one, which is an absolute goldmine of Tips and Links on how to practice IF, and the research behind it.

And here is a treasure trove of 5:2 recipes, mostly low calorie for fasting days, but there are also recipes for when you want to treat yourself. And, now we're maintaining, we'll need more of these!

Since I started the last Maintainers thread the importance of exercise has come even more to the fore, as part of our general health and to help weight loss. BigChocFrenzys thread is here

Well I had had a plan of getting safely under 9 stone in time for Easter as I'm away next week for my pre-50th holiday in the heat of the West Indies -
but its not happened as the weather has been dire so I've been hiding indoors wearing jumpers.
BUT
still holding steady with one proper and one semi fast each week.
What's not to love about the way we eat?

I'm now getting perilously close to having to use the next hole on my belt!

I blame the vegan Easter treats that Lidl rolls out at this time of year - choc covered Easter eggs, chocolate liqueurs, etc.

But they'll have disappeared from the shelves shortly - and won't reappear until Christmas.

So my waist-line should be safe again!

People feeding their faces every waking moment < rant warning >

Depressing reading This Thread about eating food before paying in supermarket:

I hate to sound like a grumpy old woman, but it used to be unthinkable to do this - an adult who did so would be assumed to have MH issues, whereas anyone who let their toddler do so would be judged as a parent.

Now it's standard parenting and busy adults will faint if they wait until paying.
So we're snobs to criticise such "normal" behaviour (I think I saw sed joining me there in Snobs Corner)
< and breathes >

Anglaise it's nice to hear you've found someone who is treating you and your DC well, but it's ok if you don't feel it you just don't feel it.

Congrats on getting back on the bandwagon SED

I feel your pain TiP and B&W, we leave New Orleans tomorrow and I dread to think how much weight I've put on but actually because I fasted a bit before the holiday and in actively looking forward to getting back into it again, I've really enjoyed eating loads of delicious food here, it's what the South is all about after all!

bigchoc
I did not even click on that thread as I knew it would annoy me.
The whole treats and snacks and blood sugar shite around at the moment gets right up my nose.

The amount of people who tell me that skipping a meal will cause a blood sugar crash and then get snotty when I link the standard graph showing that to be impossible is astonishing.
I also notice at the gym that its the fat people who need a snack to get through till the meal time
but these without the 20,000 calories on the hips seem to magically survive.

ATB
I have to admit that having read up on what food is local to the island we are going to its going to be fish, fruit, hiking and snorkelling for a week so the evening rum will be allowed
and as a Raynauds sufferer I am SO SO looking forward to the heat!

Every fecking thread about DCs contains posts "take some snacks in case they get bored / tantrum"

and its normal to:
Use electronics to occupy them for hours
Never let 11-year-olds out of sight

Mammals in a family unit need social interaction, training for independence, apropriate food & exercise.
After 200,000 years of human evolution, we should seriously think before abruptly going off in a weird evolutionary tangent.

Happy Easter, all

I agree B&W about instilling habits - I also think as well that being conscious or mindful of what you as an individual needs to stay on track helps, rather than thinking that the weight will disappear/you'll maintain by magic or something just because you're on 'old pro' - at least in my case.

For some people on that thread that BigChoc linked to it seems that going without food for half an hour or so will be the end of their worlds. Madness. U.K folks in general are so food-obsessed, much more so than when I was growing up in the 80's and 90's.

I was catching up on some UK TV today and watched something about junk food kids, where the mother was opening sandwiches in supermarkets because her kid (obese) was hungry and couldn't wait, she should be fed 'yesterday' because she was so hungry. And the child (4) also had a lot of rotten teeth. Why do some parents find it so difficult to say 'No'?
I get just as annoyed about how long you can go without eating. With running for example, you can run for up to 2 hours on your glycogen reserves, no need for anything to eat before that. But even for 10k runs some people insist on carb loading and down gels during a race. Why?
It feels good to be hungry. You appreciate food more. I bet a lot of the DC mentioned in the thread have never felt hungry in their lives.

anglaise
earlier in the week I was swimming and there was a chap who was sipping from an "energy drink" every lap
he did 50 lengths (1km) and drank 500ml of high sugar high caffeine drink
ie he took in more calories than he'd used
and he looked it

I hope everyone survived Easter without having to go up any notches on their belts!
TIP Yes, the energy supplement/sports drink market is phenomenal now. At Decathlon there are hundreds of metres of shelf space dedicated to gels, energy bars, drinks etc. All very expensive and most of which you can buy equivalent non 'sports' branded stuff elsewhere (like jelly babies). Although I do like the Isostar lemon sports drink but I only drink it for HM and longer races not for everyday training, its too expensive!

I was hanging around in superdrug yesterday DD buying lots of ungents for the beach tomorrow
Lighter Life doing 5:2 products - except that they ewncourage 4 x 200 cal high carb / sugar meal replacements on a fast day.
Talk about setting people up to fail!!!

Anglaise
After your sort of exercise, energy boosters make complete sense. But most of the people using them do stuff all

Baffling results from a paper in the Lancet , also discussed in the Guardian
The largest ever analysis, followed 2 million people aged 40+ for 20 years:

The risk of dementia DEcreased steadily as BMI rose !

Not just that 40 had 29% lower risk than BMI 20-25 !

The study doesn't tell us why, that's the next step:
deficiency in fat / B12 ? Or hormonal side effects of fat ? ..... BMI 40 is definitely fat not muscle.
Maybe those with health problems from higher BMI died earlier of other things, leaving only the fit fat ?

wow that's...different...how interesting

First FD since hols, wasn't going to bother because I've got a cold and feeling sorry for myself but I've got into a dairy and alcohol habit again so doing it as much to kick that as anything else. Was sensible and didn't eat after 6pm yesterday as I def find if I eat late in the evening I'm much hungrier earlier the next day. So, it's 1:20pm here and I'm cooking up a red lentil and quinoa curry soup thing...tonight it will be 2 poached eggs on wilted spinach with tomatoes.

I've missed 5:2!

ATB I also find a late / big supper makes me hungry in the morning. I'd have thought the insulin spike would be done and dusted overnight, but evidently not for some of us.

Research consistently shows dairy is positive for weight and health, unless you are mainlining cheese. I can polish off a 400g fondue by myself, so I have to portion my cheese in advance ! Greek yoghurt is good, too.

yes but before I went away I was pretty much on the way for full veganism. I much prefer a plant based diet for health, environment and welfare reasons and the dairy industry in particular I think is a major negative for all those factors....but I let rip in every direction on holiday because I didn't want to go to New Orleans and not eat the amazing southern food and drink hurricanes

Maybe those with health problems from higher BMI died earlier of other things, leaving only the fit fat ?
That was my thought on the survey, BigChoc. I was very surprised with the results, too. I hope it doesn't give people the wrong idea and they decide that it is OK to be a couch potato and eat as much as they want. Did the participants have other health problems even if dementia wasn't one of them?
ATB I tried fat loading before carb loading before my marathon (Matt Fitzgerald's new pre marathon theory). I lost weight. Not 5:2 but you can't fast the week before a marathon
I could eat as much cheese, full fat Greek yoghurt, nuts, salmon, eggs etc as I wanted. No carbs. It isn't something I could do long term, though.

Anglaise Mumsnetters also keep quoting those other surveys about overweight people living longer than normal BMI.
Baffling thing is, those are from respectable sources, e.g. from USA CDC
There is obviously a lot science doesn't yet know, but I suspect the keys lie in :
. more life history, not a single snapshot
. % muscle and % fat, not BMI
Trouble is, that detail is not readily available, without huge resources and will take decades too

That's certainly a surprising study, BC.

However, it would be strange to choose to remain overweight simply to avoid Alzheimer's - and run the risk of all obesity's attendant dangers.

But we IFers are aware that we can remain a sensible weight and still avoid (or at least lessen the chances of) dementia-type disorders.

The big question for me is, how do we get that message out there? That fasting is simply the best route to health and well-being?

Here's a guy, Todd Becker, who's doing his best to keep us all informed.

Well worth checking his blog every now and again - and others referenced in the Tips and Links thread - for the latest thinking and research on IF, etc.

This CDC Study analysed details of 2.88 million people stored in US databases and found obese people (BMI > 30) had the highest risk, BUT:

People with BMI 25-30 had a lower risk of death than those in recommended BMI range 18.5-25.

Several Mumsnetters have referred to newspaper stories about on threads related to weight. It's used as a justification for not losing weight, same as the dementia study will be used, I'm sure.

None of the experts in the field have an explanation for this research, but it seems accepted in the scientific community as true, even if baffling and unhelpful.

Reassuringly, this Study of Men showed the capacity to do exercise was a much better predictor of mortality than BMI. I'd expect a study of women to show similar results.

So, regardless of BMI controversy, at least the evidence shows exercise reduces mortality.

Unplanned FD after spending it in ER with DD who has scarlet fever and impetigo

100kcal eaten, it's 5:34pm and I'm knackered

(((ATB))) I hope your poor DD is better soon, poor thing
Interesting article on the health benefits of fasting in the DT today.

((ATB )) I do hope your poor DD is better very soon

That's an exceptionally good article, Anglaise describing exciting research into the medicinal uses of fasting. Would you like to post it on the main thread Number51
The scientists are quoted as saying fasting can act as a "reset button" like many of us here have found.
Very significantly, they say it is now accepted that
fasting ... can trigger changes in gene expression.

Done BigChoc, I'll leave the commenting to you

I love that article Anglaise...I ended up not fasting in the end last night - DH offered me wine when we got home and I think I ate my own body weight in cashews and dates but it was needed and nourishing!

So, I have DD at home now is much better although looks awful, bless her, so back on a proper FD today. Turns out it's a good idea to fast when a) you have to look at a puss filled face all day and b) when you are very short on cash, no accidental spending on naice food!