The 5:2 thread number 26 - Bring on the Lifestyle Change Victories!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

[MrsFlorrick]

Hello everyone.

Congratulations eatriskier.

Still on my 16:8. And I have been Shredding. On day 5 now. It has caused weightloss to stall but I think it has something to do with muscles retaining water when you work
Out hard. I hope so anyway.

I completely failed at that second fast day last week. I ended up at 900 cals. Seems that 500 just isn't right for me yet. Sigh.

Even if I can't manage the full 500 cals I am aiming for three days next week with the lowest cals I can manage so somewhere between 700 and 1000. Hopefully that will move things along.

[hopefulgum]

Hellesbelles, when I got back from two weeks of indulgence on holiday (22 July)I weighed 77.2 kgs. I started the fast diet a few days later and have dropped to 75.8 on the 16/8, but then I weighed in this Friday 23/8 (day after fast day) at 76.8. What's worse is that this morning I weighed 78 kgs Admittedly it was my DS's party last night and I had three glasses of wine and plenty of dinner and cake.

I have been swimming whilst doing the fast diet, so perhaps the muscle does weigh more than the fat, and I have had people complementing me on how I look.

However, I really thought that I would have lost a bit more than I have.

Today I decided that I have to make sure that I eat a clean healthy diet on NFD's because I think I have been giving myself permission to indulge a bit after fasting. I used to be very good at eating a clean Paleo style diet, no grain,sugar or dairy, but since starting the fast diet I have slipped and started having toast for breakfast on NFD's, and treats like chocolate, icecream and cake (it is hard to keep up the paleo diet, I find, it requires a lot of thinking and planning and work). I guess I thought the fast diet might work without having to have such a strict diet.

I also looked at some of the recommended sites and have found that I was wrong in thinking I need to lose 10 kilos, that my ideal weight is 57-63kgs. Which would be amazing, but that means I need to lose close to 20 kilos and I found that news rather depressing. Is it even possible for an old lady of 46 to lose that much ?

I keep hearing so many positive stories on this thread, so I am nowhere near giving up I just want to do it right, have a healthy relationship with food (I am so sick of dieting and being unhappy with my body shape and size), and hopefully contribute to my longevity too.

[HellesBellesThinksSometimes]

So a few ups and downs, HopefulGum have you taken any measurements? The waist to height ratio seems to be the gold standard at the moment - your waist should be jusf under half your height for health. Mine's 10" off that still. It's been hovering the whole time I've been 5:2ing - I would rather have slimmed than lost half a stone!

Try logging your food on the nexr few nfd's - you might surprise yourself. Also, I find that, when I consciously record what I eat, I'm less likely to snack. if you aren't keen on paleo - don't do paleo. The thing I've found with this woe is that it's reprogramming my body to accept less food. It's strange that I struggle to have a bit less but am fine having loads less!

Re age: I think there have been much older people on here than you. You have made a decision to improve your life and made changes to your life to make that happen. You are strong, dedicated and motivated. You can do anything you want to.

[trulymadlydeeply]

Hi folks,

I'm joining the bandwagon. Can you believe I've only just found out about 5:2?! I live abroad, so maybe that accounts for it, but I'm so glad I've found you all.

I watched the Horizon programme last night with my DH so he's also a convert. I don't really need to lose much weight, but I do need to lower my cholesterol and watch my health now I'm in my late 40s, so that's really the reason for embarking on this new lifestyle.

My main question, though, is this: is it more important to keep to the calorie limit on a fast day, or is it the TIME between food intakes, that is crucial?

Thanks for any help you can give. Determined to stay motivated.

[MissStrawberry]

Hello all!

Just making a roast dinner. After the drama with an injured cat I wasn't here to make for lunch time. We had a 3.7 mile today and I am looking forward to the meal. Normal day today so have had

scrambled eggs with cheese for breakfast
salad, salami and a bit of cheese for lunch
quavers and 1 sweet while out
Dinner will be chicken, mash, parmentier potatoes, Yorkshire pud (maybe if the kids don't want it) and 6 veg. No pud today as cake left from DS1's baking and the kids will have that as dessert.

[postmanpatscat]

hopeful I am 45 and lost 2st on 5:2. DP had taken a different approach but had lost 3.5st aged 49. You are definitely not too old!

[Dotty342kids]

eatriskier - what? I go away camping for five days and you get married?! Wow, and congratulations

So, back from five days camping and managed to stay the same which is good. I always find with camping that portions of meals are much smaller, and we're more active than at home - but that's offset by cider and ice creams so that seems about right.
Came home Friday and did a fast day yesterday to get straight back into it. Another one Tuesday, and possibly then a mini fast on Thurs but my mum's moving to our town (from over 100 miles away) so that might not go according to plan!

[thaliablogs]

Hi all. Just back from hols and seem to be 3 lbs heavier but waiting til Tom is over as all clothes fitting the same or better. I did a few 16:8s, and did stick to no snacks. Otherwise ate a lot of lovely food (salads at lunchtime, full meals in pm) and didn't worry too much, but did loads of exercise - a 5-7k hilly run every other day and swam a half kilometre on days i did a run, and 1.2 km on days I didn't. Oh the benefits of having a pool!

Need to get back into losing weight now. Ran 9.3km today which was pretty tough. Need to get back to weights but lack motivation to do it and not a gym member right now due to the move. Movers arrive tomorrow am, not sure when I will get to fast again as will be spending the whole week moving and got a Parton sat. Maybe Sunday when things have calmed down!

Glad to see everyone else doing well as usual. Howdy.

[Dotty342kids]

Just a thought about the waist / height ratio thing. Now I'll admit I am slightly biased about this one )because as an apple shape all my podge is around my middle!) but surely it can't be one rule applied to all body shapes?
I know that fat around the middle, and vital organs, is the worst place to have it for health reasons, but surely there has to be some leeway to allow for the differences in body shapes? I'm about 9" away from my "healthy" waist measurement and I am as certain as it's possible to be, that it's just not acheiveable for me. I can lose more weight, I know that, but I will always hold fat around my tummy area.
I just take no notice of pronouncements like these but I do think they are very off putting to those of us "blessed" with chunkier middles!

[vintage52er]

hopefulgum over the last year I have lost 30lbs with 5:2/4:3 and I am now 59 (B&W is 75 - I'm sure he won't mind me telling you that ), so proof that age is no barrier to weight loss.
I'd suggest listening to all the good advice on here and just sticking with it. You'll be so glad in the end

[eatriskier]

Bugger. MIL brought round wedding cake. Well over TDEE and exercise calories.

Maybe I'll eat normally next week

[NotAsTired]

Dotty. Unfortunately height/waist ratio matters to all, but especially to us apples.

BMI, waist circumference and waist-to-hip ratio were all found to have a similar strength of association with coronary heart disease, stroke and cardiovascular disease overall. Full research info here

Anyway, FD tomorrow. Wish me luck. I am finding it difficult to motivate myself but I thought I would just do it, like Nike told me to.

[HellesBellesThinksSometimes]

Urgh! It better be totm (i'm very irregular so I haven't a clue) because, otherwise, I've stuffed myself with sweet and stodge all day for nothing.

[Breadandwine]

Thanks, Betsy!

Congrats, eatriskier, may you have a long and happy life together!

[I'm another one who regrets your name change! :(]

I've stuffed myself with sweet and stodge all day for nothing.

HellesBelles - at least you guys have an excuse! I've been doing exactly that myself, today. Every now and again I convince myself that we should build a feast day into our routines on occasion - usually after the event!

I've been uncomfortable all evening, and it's only now that it's beginning to ease off. I'm stubborn in that I won't use anything but the last notch on my belt - bit silly, but there it is. Fast day tomorrow, thank goodness. might even try a 36 hour liquid fast, we'll see.

Hi VP! (You can see I don't like change! :))

[berri]

Congrats eatriskier!

I've reached my target weight!

5 weeks and I've gone from 132lbs to 119lbs. So pleased I've also been bfeeding 4 month old DD and there have been no problems there which was a relief.

So pleased I found you all and the threads and advice on here have been totally invaluable.

I think I'll still hang around here, if that's ok!

[hopefulgum]

Thanks for the input about my lack of weight loss. Right now I am content to put it down to all the extra muscle I have gained over the last 5 weeks. I actually have noticed that I have biceps under the fat,and a strong core too.

Incidentally, my waist to height ratio is 0.52 (the calculator says"consider action"), but I am only 4cm from being "OK". So feeling relieved at that. I think 4cm is do-able, I have always been hourglass - carrying loads of weight in my bum and thighs which I hate.

I heard a radio programme last week which says the latest research says that BMI should be the measurement rather than waist to height etc. Here's the transcript if you'd like to read it.

I will have to make a bigger effort to see if I am sticking within TDEE on NFD's. The problem is that the food I make isn't always standard stuff you'd find on myfitnesspal and I hate taking loads of time calculating how many calories are in stuff.

Whatever the case I am not someone who gives up easily (I have been TTC for four years, so I have stamina). So I will stick with 5:2.

I have toyed with the idea of 4:3, but don't know if I am that focused (and also probably not a great idea while ttc).

It is a fast day today and I am just reaching the "I feel a bit sick" stage of the morning. I know it will pass, and it is probably due to drinking about 3 cups of tea. I'll drink some water, that seems to help.

Happy Monday everybody

[peplum41]

Hello again

Well done berri, yes please do stick around. You can be the reassurance other bf fasters need.

hopefulgum, I've read somewhere, on one of these 5:2 threads, that exercise can cause your cells to hold water as part of the muscle building process. Also, apparently, fat cells hang on to water when you start to lose weight incase you change your mind and decide you want the fat back- its like its keeping the seat for a friend. Eventually they get the message, no I don't want the fat back thanks, so the water is released. One important reason to drink plenty of water on fds and NFDs to assist this process and reduce water retention.

[peplum41]

Or something like that anyway.

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

Just checking into the new thread. Last week was a hodge-potch of TOTM-related and pure troughing it weight gain, I don't even know how much. Monday fast day now, I'll re-assess after that. I've effectively just been maintaining since June, unintentionally, as a result of too many 6:1 weeks. But they tell me the weather is FINALLY going to warm up around here soon, so I'm hopeful that'll give me more of a kickstart.

Current status quo is that I'm hovering around 61.5-62kg, I want to lose a further 5.

[peplum41]

tortoise oh good your summers on its way. Beer cravings come a calling. At least you've found a good way to maintain.


miss strawberry , dare I ask, is the cat ok?

[thinkcan]

Yikes! After 3 weeks back in home country where I ate without restraint followed by 11 days of house guests during which we partook generously of the many culinary delights of my host country, I have put on 5 lbs. It's back to 5:2 WOE this week. Hope it won't be too long before I offload these 5 lbs.

[peplum41]

Hi to trulymadly

Yes! Be glad you found this thread, its a wealth of really useful info, often from people that have been fasting for over a year. Intermittently that is! I quite often check in feeling a bit peckish, but after a quick catch up feel motivated to stick with whatever regime I've set myself for that day.

If you're more interested in the health benefits than weight loss, then you may wish to concentrate on the fasting for several hours aspect, rather than calorie restriction. Most start by missing breakfast, have a low cal lunch, then a low cal tea. Eventually, you manage to just have tea. I think the advantage of aiming for 500/600 cals on a fast day is that it puts a limit on your intake, as it is easy to gorge when you've deprived yourself all day, which may undo all the health benefits as your body now has to process all this food, rather than go into repair mode. There is also the option of eating in an eight hour window, such as between noon and 8pm, to allow a longer gap between meals. There are many sites which go into the science behind the health benefits of fasting. Makes a fascinating diversion when you are missing lunches.

Ramblr

[postmanpatscat]

Welcome trulymadly

So, back home after two weeks of all inclusive and I am 200g lighter than I was two weeks ago!! Definitely no fasting occurred, I had breakfast (incl pastries or pancakes) every day, drank loads of juices and mocktails and had three mini desserts from the buffet after dinner most nights. We usually skipped lunch and I didn't exercise much the second week due to a cold, just leisurely swimming, some aquagym and the 5k walk to town and back.

Had planned to fast today but maybe 16:8 will suffice. It's not like there's any food in the house anyway until I have been shopping.

Happy bank holiday Monday everyone!

[peplum41]

That's a clever fasting tip posti, no food in the house.
Sounds a great holiday, a mix of nice food and plenty of enjoyable exercise. Does it make you want to live there?

think what are the many culinary delights of this mystery country?

I think todays fast is going to be one where I day dream about food. I've already contemplated what I world order from macdonalds if I ever allowed myself in there. Last FD, I made up a fantasy shopping list of what I'd buy if I could eat whatever I liked. Little cereal boxes, and mince pies!

[tryinghard2]

YAY! I've lost 17kg since April! I can hardly believe it! Keep going everyone, it does work and we will get there!