The 5:2 thread number 26 - Bring on the Lifestyle Change Victories!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

[eatriskier]

notas don't worry! I feel rotten but got to 5:00 without really even wanting to eat. And I'm not sure cake will make me feel better, which you may have just proven to me

misss missed your post. Go with what your body is telling you. That's what I decided to do today. If you're not hungry just fast/have a low cal day. If your body wants you to stuff your face, then do it. disclaimer: advice only applies to when you're ill

[eatriskier]

dotty why waste a day feeling rotten and not hungry on not fasting when you can feel well and have a non fast day

[southeastdweller]

MrsF How are you feeling now? I agree with wriggle about you trying some proper 500 cal FD's, and how much under your TDEE are you going under? I think the maximum is 20% though IME you should be closer if not pretty much bang on, same for you angel

[MissStrawberry]

eatriskier - I think you are very very very wise and I will take your advice . .

[Talkinpeace]

The most important thing I've learned with this way of eating is to never beat yourself up about a meal.
Think about it, analyse it, but don't beat up about it.

I really should start getting back in shape PDQ, but I'm tired and have a cold and no food in the house so thoroughly enjoyed fish and chips for supper.

Tomorrow is another day.

[MissStrawberry]

I am loving, loving that I am no longer scared of food.

[MrsFlorrick]

Southeastdweller. If I eat anywhere near my TDEE I gain weight.

I think the online calculators over estimate my TDEE because I am tall and fat and they assume perhaps I have more muscle than I do. My scales have a body fat monitor thingy which tells me my body fat is 39%

I aim for 1200 cals a day. My BMR ("coma rate") is 1500 cals. If I ate 1500 cals a day I would gain weight even if I was shredding. So again I think I burn less than the calculators estimate.

I have dipped my toe into fasting and done a few days of 700 cals but that is as low as I can manage just now.

I may try for another 700 cal fast tomorrow. Wish me luck

I am still feeling meh. I guess it's partly the annoyance that I am so close but still it will take months before I am "there". And both my DC are being nightmares at the mo. my eldest spent most of today on time out. I will spare you details but it has been grim behaviour wise lately. Not helping the mood and it turns my mind towards cake (and wine ).

Wish me luck for tomorrow.

[southeastdweller]

Wishing you lots of luck for tomorrow Mrs. You can do it. Let us know how you get on.

[headintheclouds]

Hello everyone, another one back from holidays. after 14 days in Turkey and no fasting..lots of fabulous food and drinking every day Im not very surprised to find that Im 5 YES 5 pounds heavier. ( and its TOM!)
I do hope you are right dotty and that I also will fit into the category of undoing the damage fairly quickley.
I got back last night and got straight on with fasting today.. no problem at all and Ill do another one on Thursday.
Welcome to all the new starters..youve come to the right place !
And welcome back all holiday makers like me! i did check in from my sun lounger from time to time..its been very quiet !

[hopefulgum]

Monday's fast went very well until about 4pm. I had a nice soup for lunch which was only 120 calories, but could not shake a feeling of extreme tiredness all afternoon. I sat down on the couch with DS and watched a movie. I don't like feeling so knackered and not getting things done. In the end I had a small yoghurt, which actually helped me feel better and I perked up after that. I made a beautiful Laksa with fish instead of prawns for dinner, which the recipe said was about 370 cals per serve. The recipe was two serves and DH and I didn't eat all of it, so I think we may have had under 370 calories, but I think the yoghurt (full fat and delicious) may have been worth a couple of hundred calories

But as Talkinpeace says, it isn't worth beating myself up about food. I have been doing that for years and just don't want to anymore. I figure it was still a pretty good fast day, and when I weighed myself the following morning I had lost a tiny bit.

So onwards and upwards (or downwards on the scales ).

Does anyone else feel tired on fast days? I always swim in the mornings of Monday fast days, but that shouldn't make me excessively tired, I usually feel energised by it.

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

Morning all. Going for second fast of the week, after a few weeks of 6:1.

I have weirdly put on a couple of kilos this week though, and my fat skirt is fitting tightly. I assume it's a form of water retention, since I ate pretty lightly yesterday (haven't been well, so didn't eat between my sensible 8am breakfast and a fairly light 7pm dinner, then some cheese and crackers later but that's all) and it's not TOTM. We shall see.

Hopeful that sounds delicious! Would the laksa be good without the yoghurt, do you think?

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

(Sorry, disregard that, I just saw that the yoghurt was separate from the laksa)

[frenchfancy]

Mrs F if you gain weight at your BMR then something is wrong with your calcs - either you are shorter that you think ( ) or you are not counting your calories correctly. It is all about portion size. There is no point logging a jacket potato for example if you haven't weighed it first.

Have you seen the Secret eaters program? It is on Youtube if not. There are regularly people on there who do a food diary saying they eat 1500 cals and still put on weight. When the dietitian works out what they actually ate it is more like 3000 or sometimes 4000 cals.

If you are brave enough to share what you have eaten for a day - with all weights and every bite counted for then I'm sure we will be happy to help.

Sorry if this sound patronising, but people who say they put on weight at their BMR, let alone their TDEE are defying science and if it were really true then scientists and Doctors would have to go back to the starting block.

[NotAsTired]

MrsF, I agree with FrenchFancy that your calculations sound a bit confused. Your BMR is the minimum amount of calories you should be eating. What is your actual TDEE? And what are you using to calculate your calories?

[Claricemis]

A fast day for me today. I lost weight since yesterday morning even thoug I ate what I wanted without checking portions. The reason probably being that I could only eat twice during that day and not very large portions. I was stuffed. Nice to know that my stomach must be getting smaller.

So far I haven't had a bite to eat and I feel pretty good. This is going to be my 4th fast. I've lost 1,5 kilos so far and I feel really good about this lifestyle. I feel like I'd be able to stick to it.

[wrigglebum]

MrsF, if you have done your calculations correctly with TDEE and consumption then surely your body has gone into starvation mode- it sees less coming in so learns to survive on less and desperately holds onto the fat just in case. I agree with frenchfancy about logging every single morsel that goes in your mouth- every bit swiped off the children's dinner, every drink, every biscuit. Plus weighing things for a bit to keep a check on portion control.

If you are eating that little day to day and shredding I'm not surprised you can't do a 500 cal fast- you are pretty much fasting every day already! No wonder you feel rubbish (and I know when I feel rubbish I find my boys much harder work- you can't look after others if you don't look after yourself).

The TDEE should be accurate, even if your weight is fat it takes your body effort to maintain that, to pump the blood around, to move your body around. Try and calculate again putting the activity at sedentary (I think TIP also recommends putting in the weight you want to be rather than what you are now). Then eat right up to that TDEE on non fast days. I know it might take a while to get your head around eating that much and you may bounce up a little but in the long term you should become leaner, healthier and a lot happier.

I also recommend you make your new diet low GI/GL- cut right down on processed carbs, eat plenty of veg, a bit of fruit after a meal, lean protein, some whole grains. If you do want that bit of cake or sweet have it at the end of a meal- it will make it harder to over indulge and keep your blood sugar more even (which will make you feel better and prevent fat storage). If you do need snacks then something protein like some edamame, boiled egg, bit of cheese, scrape of peanut butter on an oat cake etc.

Definitely have at least 1-2 days rest from hardcore exercise per week, although if you wanted to walk or swim those days that should be ok. Your body needs to recover and repair, and too much exercise can increase cortisol production which hinders weightloss and stresses you out. I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to correct me if I'm talking crap.

I hope you don't feel like we're picking on you. You've done amazingly well to get as far as you have (I don't think I could do that) and we want to help you achieve your goal.

[wrigglebum]

That Laksa sounds amazing hopefulgum. I'll bookmark that!

[MrsFlorrick]

Wrigglebum. I like the idea of eating more!!!

I have recalculated my TDEE. It's 1829. BMR is 1524. Seditary at current weight. At my ideal weight TDEE is 1735.
I faithfully record every morsel that passes my lips.

I already eat low carb as I low carb since January but it didn't help me lose much weight.

I guess I am extra annoyed just now because this time last year I was this weight. Then due to marital issues I felt down and ate (cake biscuits choc) and I put almost 2 stone on by last Christmas.

So if I hadn't been such an idiot I would have been in my old clothes already.

And I am hankering after Allsaints leather trousers

I will report back with my copy of my intake later.

[MrsFlorrick]

Sorry meant to add that if I add moderate exercise ie 1-3 times a week my TDEE goes up to 2097. And if I add 3-5 days per week then its right up at 2347!!!

I was counting 2097 as my TDEE. That is high. I guess 1700 is more like it.

[wrigglebum]

Yes, maybe eat around the 1750 mark with a couple of 500 cal fast days (shouldn't be too hard if you're eating properly normally). Then your shredding should allow you to have a nice meal out of tasty treat on the weekend without guilt.

[wrigglebum]

...or tasty treat.

[HellesBellesThinksSometimes]

Feel yuck - sugar is evil! Why does fanta taste so good?

[JB30]

Just reading through everyone's holiday weigh gains and subsequent quick losses, I must be the exception. I'm starting to believe I just find it v hard to lose weight. It took me a good month to shift my holiday weight - at least 10 fd's.It was about a 5 pound gain and it had gone by last Saturday, although scales is acting silly buggers last 3 mornings. But Friday/Saturday is the true WI so need to stop obsessing. 16:8 today, and FD tomorrow. On a day off so plan to do a run shortly then weather permitting bring kids out this avo for some fun.
I feel your pain MrsF - I reckon if I ate tdee I would gain. One things for sure for me, 2000 calories a day is certainly not my gda! It's more like my ggw, guaranteed gain weight!

[eatriskier]

so the damage of 3 blowout days and one successful fast has been just under 2lb. hoping tomorrows fast will shift a fair whack of that. was definitely a good weekend worth some weight gain though. back to the grindstone now.

[MrsFlorrick]

Jb30. GWG. Haha. Yes indeed!!!

I am not sure exercise makes a great deal of difference either.

I wasted 7 months this year just low carbing. It's supposed to curb your appetite. Doesn't work for me. I could merrily eat fatty food till the cows come home. It certainly didn't make me eat less. I did ditch sugar which was great.

Argh. I want a magic wand and some sleep. Both DC were up for hours last night and I feel my age and more today.