5:2 Diet Thread! 12! Cheaper by the dozen!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

BMJ Perhaps you do need to calorie count on non-fast days - it sounds like a history of dieting and bingeing means your body has no chance of knowing what a normal amount of eating is.

So yes maybe try a couple of weeks where you calorie count to your TDEE, fast 2 days a week and instead of thinking about eating all the treats on a non-fast day limit it to one treat per eating day. That way, nothing is really off limits but you're less likely to binge. After a couple of weeks of that hopefully your eating will settle down into a normal pattern.

The obese group of people, mentioned in the documentary & Mosely's book, who did lose weight despite eating nothing but burgers, chips etc were doing alternate day fasting rather than 5:2.

bmj I believe both the OP and the tips and links threads have the links to the studies you will need to look at to decide for yourself of the scientific benefits to fasting (or not). More research is needed, I think that's agreed. The mantra really is "eat normally" not "eat what you like" or "eat as much as you like" on non fasting days otherwise you will not creat a calorie deficit over the week. Using mfp and weighing what you are eating so you keep within your TDEE on your feed days might well help? Good luck, and if you decide other ways of eating are better for you, that's also fine, we're all trying to find the woe that works for us.

I suppose the book and website do talk about eating your regular, normal recommended allowance of cals on non fast days

So basically, this diet is just: starve for 2 days then count cals for 5 days? Sounds grim. I was counting cals 7 days and doing really well, and everyone on MN jumped on me saying that this 5:2 diet was much more efficient.

The health benefits have been linked throughout the various 5:2 threads and they've convinced me

Can you list them briefly please?

Hi LavaTwilight, Well done for going for it! In the past I felt i had that reaction to not eating too but since starting 5:2 I have not had that problem so I wonder if it's more a psychosomatic reaction rather than a real one? There's something about this way of eating that leaves you feeling in control of your body and brain so maybe less likely to have those reactions...

I wonder if you 'newbies' would like some more motivation - I loved to read other people's stats when I first started. I started this woe in August at 11st 9lbs (5ft 5ins) and a size 14. Six months later have lost 18lbs and am now in size 10 jeans. My visceral fat (fat that gathers around internal organs) has dropped from 9 to 7. My waist is now 30". I put on only 1lb over Xmas by continuing with this and had lost it by 7 Jan.
I still enjoy eating anything I want, feel great and am full of energy every day. I have loved this woe from the beginning and still do - it's been so easy I still can't believe I'm so slim
If I can do this so can you all.

Hi all just checking in.... I did a fab fast day yesterday and felt so skinny this morning 👍not weighing till Monday though and I have a lot of eating and drinking coming up tonight and over the next few days! Today I have had some pancakes with Nutella (naughty but omg amazing) then I visited the grandparents who made me have some homemade walnut cake then we had Subway (turkey and ham) and now I'm waiting for my steak meal with chips tonight! I feel so naughty today but I need to keep telling myself that this is life And its valentines day! We all need treat days!
I am struggling on MFP as I'm not sure why it keeps telling me I should eat 1300 kcal this sounds too low?!? I'm 28 weighing 9stone 9 and I'm 5ft 4 Ish I have an office job and workout out in the gym 3 days a week - can someone tell me how many kcal I should be eating on non fast days xx

Good luck to everyone today xx

virginposter wow! Just, wow! I'm very similar size and measurements to you and can't believe getting to that size would ever be acheivable so it's great to hear that you've done it.
Can I ask, what sort of weekly loss did you do? Was it a lot, then plateauing, then a bit more gradual? Or gradual from the beginning?
blackmaryjanes, think they're all listed if you go and look for them in the original post, or perhaps check out Michael Moseley's actual website for more info.
No-one can force you into one way of eating / diet over another. If calorie counting every day was working for you, then that's entirely your choice! I am interested in the health benefits as well as the weight loss but that might not be the same for everyone and, in general, staying at a nice healthy weight is probably the single best thing you can do for your overall health so do what you need to to acheive that

bmj I agree calorie counting is grim; however on the WOE you may only have to calorie count for the first few weeks to get an idea of what eating at your TDEE is. Compared to what you can eat on a fast day, it will come to feel like a decent amount and you won't feel short -changed (well that's what happened to me anyway) and then you won't need to calorie count anymore.
If say, you want to eat 6 roast potatoes normally, but on a fast day you can't have any, then being allowed to eat 2 on an eating day seems a luxury so you enjoy them .....that's the idea anyway!
The benefits of the fasting seem to be in reducing cholesterol/ improving blood glucose tolerance tests/ body fat/ cognitive decline ..... Well DrMM says it does anyway!

daisy that does sound low! I suspect what happened to me on MFP happened to you - you input what you want to achieve ie. weight loss and it then calculates how many cals you'd need per day to lose weight, which sounds like the 1300 figure.
If you ignore that one, there should be another figure which shows up, usually 4-500 higher, this is what you should eat to maintain the same weight. Do this 5 days per week, and fast (having no more than 500) the other two days.

thanks for you replies - BetsyVanBell that is reassuring thanks :)
I have (sometimes half-heartedly) used Weight watchers and like having the app on my phone for recording what I am eating. I am thinking that i may try to keep using this to keep a record of my non-fast days to try to educate me with portion control and the eating choices i make.

Virginposter how do you measure your visceral fat?

btw - another big fan of the Jacqueline Whitehart book - it really is my bible at the moment for fast days and many of the curries feel like really hearty meals which helps.

btw she uses oils, so I substitute fry light & water and then am able to add in peppers, courgettes and mushrooms to bulk recipes up which helps - 1tbsp oil = 120cals which is more than two whole peppers and 250g pack of mushrooms! Worth bearing in mind if some of the recipes seem a little sparse on ingredients!

Also the bbc good food site enables you to search recipes by calories aswell

Thanks Dotty ill log on to MFP and do that later xx

Sorry BMJ can't go thru and list every link. Too busy with builders and DD. the threads are long but the links are there.

Well, today's fast is coming to an end (I'll be eating at 9 as am doing 24 hours) and it can't finish sooner. It was really hard today because I was housebound with none of my usual distractions of gym and work. I really thought I'd cave in mid afternoon and if I had it would have been fine of course but I seem to have made it past the hunger and am now fine to go till 9.

Dotty342 thanks I could never have achieved this result without this woe and all the support and knowledge on this forum.
I have always been a slow loser on every diet I've ever done, my body just seems to not want to let go of the fat. On this I lost steadily losing 2lbs the first week then 1lb each week for the next 4 weeks. Then I plateaued for 3 weeks then lost 1lb then 2lbs then 1lb for the next 2 weeks then plateaued again for 3 weeks etc etc. The most I've lost in one week is 2lb. I haven't ever put and lbs back on except for Xmas (1). The last couple of times I've plateaued I've done 4:3 and lost again immediately.
In my case, slow and steady wins the race

Miffytastic I have posted on here before about my visceral fat and don't want to become boring by repeating myself but I have scales which measure fat percentage, muscle mass and visceral fat as well as normal overall weight. When I posted before there was quite a bit of discussion about these scales and the consensus was that they do not give accurate body fat percentage, but they do actually tell you if you are reducing even if the original figure was not accurate. For example when I first weighed they said I was 44 percent fat and now they say I'm 39 percent, so I have lost 5 percent body fat (even though I don't know if the 44 figure was really true). And my visceral fat was 9 and is now 7 so I've dropped by 2 (again, even if the first figure was not too accurate) Hope this is not too confusing.

When I went to my son's at Xmas and jumped on his scales they said my body fat was 24 percent and so I hope that I'm nearer to that figure than what mine say. Many threads back when we had this discussion someone posted a link to an article giving reviews on body fat scales which were tested against someone who had just been body fat measured in a Bodpod (so they did have a very accurate reading to compare with) but I can't remember who posted or which thread it's on, sorry.

bmj I found mfp invaluable. My BMI was 36 when I started & is now 27.8 still overweight but not obese. I clearly had no idea what normal eating was. I logged on every day for a month so I learnt about normal portions & calorie amounts over that time. As far as health benefits go please look at the op but I can tell you my cholesterol is now normal whereas its always been high & my steroid medication has been reduced from 6daily to 2.

Today has been a very hard fast for me too, have got the munchies badly, no idea why. Roll on 3 days of eating more food!

well today wasn't meant to be a fast day for me and i'd just done two in a row but i had no appetite and so didn't eat.

despite not really feeling hungry i just made myself something to eat and that was only maybe 220cals.

did have a worry of oh no you're not meant to do this then remembered that some people do actual fasts for days without running into problems and it is only a few days. now wondering whether to continue and make this another fast day or get the ice cream out of the freezer.

bmj if you are genuinely binge eating then no this isn't going to be a magic wand for you to be able to continue with proper binge eating. it may mean you can go mad one day a week and eat round your tdee 4 days a week (still more than you'd have been eating on your old diet) and fast 2 days a week.

if that doesn't sound right for you and you were genuinely doing fine on calorie counting every single day then go back to that. this way is better for me because i can't bear calorie counting on a daily basis. i'm a bit of a binge eater but i'm making up for it to some degree by doing near full 24hr fasts before having my 500cals and this week i've done 2days back to back and found that really meant i had no appetite on the third day.

when you say binge eating what do you mean?

Hi everybody! Am enjoying reading these posts...whilst I'm doing it 'my way' i.e. not worrying too much about TDEEs or BMIs. I am now settled into the 5:2 WOE and it's working well. Have gone from 83kg to 69kg in just over two months and feel really different. Just had results from new blood tests and both blood sugar levels and cholesterol have improved significantly (if still not perfect).

Now the challenge is to continue this WOL after all the 'Gosh haven't you lost weight' remarks drop off! In the past, I have found this difficult...have pinpointed that in fact I was also addicted to the attention one get from transforming one's body. Have always used this point as an excuse to start bingeing again...am determined to be aware and not let this happen again.

In fact, I really don't feel like over-eating anymore. I think it's because with 5:2 I am in control, and I'm not counting calories except for on fast days (when I'm still getting used to quantities.) Cheers for now.

Hi there , I havent been posting much on this thread as selfishly i've been posting more on our maintainers thread, where we hope you see all you sooner or later but my stats are very like virginposters.

I have been doing this since August.. have lost 22lbs down to a smidge over 10st now ., over 4 ins from my waist and have gone from BMI 26.3 to 22.6 ..and from sz 12/14 M&S jeans to a size 10 skinny jeans tried in all brands i've (but M&S ones are definitely a bit baggy now but they do tend to be more generous ) Tops from a 16 to 12 or 10 depending (M&S10) . , but strangely enough down only one bra size .. 36d to 34D

I've n mostly done 4:3 and found that I was losing 1-2lbs a week.. and not counting calories at all on eating days .( but not going overboard either). is my treat so its not been too bad as I now only (Ok mostly) drink Friday and Saturday nights now .

I've found n my weight has plateaued a bit now I had dropped down to 5:2 and it seems that I can maintain quite easily at that and have some extra . , But with my eye on a bikini for the summer hol I'm now upping the exercise (or rather Started to exercise.. ) to tone up. We have started a little 30day Shred challenge on on the maintainers .. Perhaps we should do it here also!

This WOE is a way of life for me now..

Cooker installed yesterday (fast day) and had my postponed pancakes today... With chocolate and banana. Was SO good! This WOE is the best!

Also weighed in this morning and 1lb loss! :)

I've had a good fast day in the end - didn't eat in the daytime at all, except for a disgusting juice concoction made mostly of spring greens and lettuce (100 cals?) which although technically food I'm really counting as a vitamin supplement in liquid form. Aside from that I managed to hold off until 6pm and made a really fantastic Thai prawn thing - I've MFP'd it and it comes out at 375 calories a portion so I may pop it on the recipes thread. I'm satiated and pleasantly full. Lovely.

I also managed to do an exercise dvd session this afternoon (as mentioned, and indeed motivated, by Laska!) - Jillian Michael's 30 day Shred - not sure I'll manage daily (I don't need to be fit in 30 days...) but I will aim for 3 or 4 times a week - it's only 20mins and pretty hardcore.

I've maintained my 'normal' BMI status this week having achieved that goal last week and I think I'll have shifted another pound this week - I know the losses will be slow going from here on in as I'm at a weight that my body seems to like (admittedly it's the slimmest I've been for years) but I think there's room for improvement and I want to get further away from the border of 'overweight' BMI. I'm finding this WOE completely sustainable and having these forum threads are incredibly motivating. Couldn't have done it without you all .