5:2 Diet Thread! 12! Cheaper by the dozen!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

dotty i started this WOE a similar time to you I think.today has been 2nd fast of 3 rd week. so far ive weighed in after every fast but dont think Im going to keep doing that because its too disappointing if Ive not lost. I lost 2.6 lbs after the first week,then put on half pound after 2nd week. tomorrow morning Ill weigh myself and I too will be ' pouty' if Ive not lost.My start weight was 11 st 2 lbs ,now 11 st ,and im a short arse 5' 3".
Like you I think its probably more motivating to weigh after 2nd fast of the week .Good luck to everyone tomorrow if youre fasting.Im away tomorrow for weekend so did my fast a day earlier,usually Mon/ Thurs .My initial goal is to go down a dress size ( size 16 norks,and 14 bottoms.)

French fancy - do you think just doing extra walking counts? I'm not really doing anything else...but am thinking about yoga a couple of times a week..

My second fast day is coming to an end and again I've only eaten 400kcal. Do you think I should try and eat an extra 100?
I have quite a headache this evening though, which could be from fasting but is probably also from not drinking enough. This is probably TMI but I find myself peeing a lot on fast days. Would that be my body getting rid of excess water?

As a long term if-er and paleo dieter, you should be lifting heavy things, but only once a week.

Another fast day approaches. On the one hand I'm really looking forward to it as an opportunity to provide a break to my digestive system plus I like the feeling of lightness and emptiness; on the other hand I'm a little apprehensive as it's the first time I'm fasting during TOM and the first time I'll be truly housebound (won't even be able to "waste" a few hours working or at the gym). It will be interesting....

Bsshbossh good luck, being housebound does provide a challenge! TOM not so much I've found, just made me feel a bit more tired but less bloaty than normal!

Thanks Captain.

Itsaboat and "Mamamoomin* - about your concern on the article that says body breaks down protein first and is prone to more infections. Don't think intermittent fasting does this to our system, at least it hasn't to mine. Maybe it's for people who eat nothing at all for longer periods than we do. It probably helps to eat more nutrient-dense foods like fruits and veggies and whole grain during our fasts.

Just saw the article and as frenchfancy notes, the article speaks of 5:2 also. So we should probably try and build muscles by increasing our exercise so we prevent muscle loss.

Exercise - hmmm not very good at that will have to try & think of what I can do that wont inflame my joints. Went shopping yesterday walked for an hour around the shops. Result is that today can't get out of bed. Hey ho.

Oh & I hate swimming!

Mamamoomins article - I have been ill 3 times since Sept, which is pretty unusual for me - twice I've had flu and one septic throat - it could be bad luck, it could be fasting. I exercise 5 times a week, I haven't noticed any loss of muscle mass.

Interesting. Well I will try and get my behind in gear and do something physical! I have a 1yr old which is a kinda work out in itself.

I hate the idea that I'm losing loads of weight but not all of it is fat. I've been putting so much faith in it being the wobbly stuff going.

First time poster long time lurker on this thread, just wanted to share my experience on this diet...I have been doing ADF since 20 January and weighed myself this morning - lost just over 10 pounds in 4.5 weeks. I am too much of a piglet to do 5:2! My TDEE is pretty high (2400) as I have two active jobs and have to cycle between them, so I usually aim for 500 but end up somewhere around 600, which is fine I guess as it's still 1/4 of the TDEE.

I have to say I found the first two weeks made me exceptionally crabby and I felt pretty weak on the morning after fast days, but that's settled down now. I find this way of eating much easier than any other regime I've tried (and I've tried tons) although I have to say, on fast days I do tend to eat more rubbish than I used to because I CAN :) I don't count on eating days as it does my head in, but the weight seems to be dropping off fairly consistently. I think I'll go to 5:2 when I am in the maintenance stage, and hopefully stick at that as it really does work.

For anyone in the first few days, keep going - I didn't think I could do it but it gets easier and easier as time goes on. I find it easier to eat a variation of the same things on fast days as it saves me bothering to count cals - veg based soup or crispbreads topped with salmon and cottage cheese for lunch for example. I've got a couple of recipes on my blog for soup if anyone's stuck for ideas girlandjeansreunited.wordpress.com...it gets a bit boring just having those nasty tinned soups from the shops. If you need something sweet I go for those diet jellies with a bit of tinned or frozen fruit thrown in, or ice pops (I'm in Australia so these are needed, probably a bit early for all you UK-ers!). Another find was Petit Filous yoghurts - they're less than 70 cals per pot and are just big enough to take the edge off and stop me from diving head first into the ice cream!

whoops ticked the wrong box (can you tell I'm new) - girlandjeansreunited.wordpress.com sorry

I need to force myself to exercise too.
Am now regretting having a salad for my dinner last night as now I've woken up hungry, and it's a fast day.
Mental note eat something substantial the night before a fast day.

Morning all, not sure if i was the first but i certainly used the word "pouty" to describe how i felt last Friday after not losing anything, hadnt seen it used before, then saw Ezza used it on Monday :) I think its a good way to describe how we get petualnt over things, and i use it in regard to many things...
Maybe it can be adopted as " the word" to describe our feeling when we dont see the result we expect lol..

Good morning all - fast day here for me, another challenging one I expect, trapped in the house for the morning awaiting a boiler engineer, and if this rain keeps up I'll have trouble getting the kids out this afternoon. Am going to keep going as long as possible today - easier to experiment with that when not working at least and have even not put milk in my morning tea.

DH is now fasting with me but I see he's forgotten to take his soup lunch in - maybe he'll go the whole day without and he'll probably find it really easy too !

the thing with that article, thought it gives incredibly little detail of the process by which muscle would be lost and i would be interested in seeing more evidence and detail, is that if we are to believe it then surely no one would EVER burn fat until they'd lost all their protein/muscle?

the same process would apply whether you were eating 500 cals under your bodies needs or 500 cals total - the body would allegedly burn your muscles before it burnt fat.

so i'm afraid i don't buy it. there is not enough info in it to make a solid judgement and looking at it logically it cannot be right or the logical conclusion would be that no one should ever restrict calories because they'll lose their muscles.

made it through last night and it was worth it for the scales this morning though no doubt there's another upswing to come before the next fast i'm now at bang on 11st8 so exactly 6lbs down in just over 2 weeks. on a graph it would be a weird line as after each fast the weight goes up a bit again but it has never gone back up to a level over the level it was at before the last fast if that makes sense.

i am weighing myself because i want to understand what's going on with my weight - re: how much of each fast loss goes back on in between and then how much it comes down again after the next fast etc. i'm glad i'm doing that because i can see that the overall trend is going down.

good luck to everyone fasting today. i can eat today but will try not to go too mad. think my tdee is at 1970 now but realistically i'm not working so not doing much so it's probably less. next fast will be monday i think and i bet i'll be relieved to get to monday after a sedentary and eating period before then.

BetsyVanBell I'm fasting and housebound today too (I need to supervise builders in the house). Usually I keep busy with gym and work but can't do either today. Fingers crossed it won't go pear-shaped.

and tbh if you were 5st overweight what would be the most pressing issue? losing that fat before it kills you or worrying about losing a fraction of your muscle tone that is probably pretty naff anyway and can't be improved because your body is under so much strain from fat it can't do much exercise? the biggest threat is the fat so you would work to lose the fat and then work on improving muscle tone.

muscle tone can be built back up if you are healthy enough to exercise. type 2 diabetes, heart attacks, strokes, etc are not so easy to come back from.

The thing is Dr David Lau who has made the comment in Moomin's article is an advocate of low carb eating. He seems to suggest the body adapts to a lack of carb via protein burning before it starts burning fat...which suggests it's the intermittent nature that causes the problem.

so he would say that the body never has long enough in IF to get past protein burning into fat burning?

I am really struggling this morning - I am due to start my second fast but I had a wretched night's sleep and have a splitting headache. What do you think ladies - do I fast for a bit and see how I get on, or write it off and fast tomorrow? My DS will be going for his nap shortly and I'm going back to bed while he sleeps to see if that helps. So far all I've had today is a black coffee, but I've been awake since 5am.

I can't really fast tomorrow as one of my friends is coming over which means cake and the weekend isn't likely to succeed... I don't want to quit before I've begun! But nor do I want to feel this bad all day. Help!

on the horizon film he had definitely seen an improvement in fat v muscle levels though so albeit only one case it wasn't true in that one.