5:2 Diet Thread! Going up to 11!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

My 3rd post. Have been on 5:2 for a couple of months now, lost over 25lbs and 12 cm from waist. Another 14 lbs to go, but in fact that was not the core issue: I started 5:2 to get rid of pre-diabetic blood sugar condition, also high cholesterol. Am looking forward to results from blood tests taken a few days ago. Really hope I have knocked those things on the head!

My experience: 'easy as'. If I feel hungry I drink a big glass of water or make a hot tea - mate, green, gumboot, whatever. Funny that these 'tricks' we have always known about have been thrown into new focus by 5:2 and seem absolutely relevant & do-able, rather than diet-y.

Am also keeping up with a brisk 25 minute walk most days, including fasting days. Doesn't make me more tired. By the way, I am 62 with a long history of yo-yo dieting. I now feel younger, fitter, and happier than I have for ages. Plus, I know that this is the real thing, a permanent lifestyle change. Cheers :)

Just saw this on Dr MM's twitter:

?@NCG1973: should protein be avoided on fast days ?" Am on holiday but sneaked off to tweet. Less protein on feast days, more on fast days

Good advice for newbies.

Re maintenance: I've been extra lean for decades but want the health benefits, so I've been fasting one day a week (I'm into my fourth month). My fast "day" is 30-some hours of no calories. Because I don't want to lose weight, I've increased the amount I eat on non-fast days. (For the first time in years I've been using my scales and paying attention to calories.) I find that I typically lose between 1 and 1.5 kg after a fast but put it back in the next day or two. So this is working out well for me except for one thing - the need to eat more calories on non-fast days has thrown me for a loop. Over the years I'd developed my own subconscious mechanism for sensing what and how much to eat to stay steady. Consciously adding food has thrown that out of kilter. It's also been a challenge to eat more without sometimes feeling uncomfortably full.

I've continued with my programme because, aside from being a bit stuffed on occasion, I've felt so much better physically and otherwise. I've also been tinkering with the "what" part of my diet for the past year - reducing or eliminating processed food, dairy, sugar and wheat, but it's clear to me that fasting is the biggest factor in the improvements I've experienced. I'm going to give it a little more time and see if my internal monitor adjusts. But I hope that B&W and others will continue to post about their maintenance regimens. A full fast for 24 hours followed by a normal meal sounds attractive. Based on what I've read (not only about 5:2 but fasting in general), that should offer the health goodies without the need to add much intake on other days and may suit me well.

Natasha, nuts and seeds are very calorie dense so it might be worth adding them to your diet on the eating days if you want more calories.

Someone asked a few pages back about how many days between fasts people find better. Personally I prefer to have 2 days between fasts. Sometimes this is not possible because of the days I have available to do fasts, or somethimes I do 4:3, but in general I try to have 2 normal eating days between fasts. I find the fasts generally easier if I do this. I have noticed that I tend to look forward to the fasts if I have 2 normal days before them.

I reached my original goal weight yesterday morning . I am 5 foot 4 inches and weighed in at 125.6 pounds (or BMI of 21.6). When I started this in August I was 144.6 pounds (or BMI of 24.9, just the upper end of "normal", but overweight for me). I have lost 19 pounds doing this WOE.

I had adjusted my final goal a little a while ago to go down to 123 pounds or so, which would bring me to a BMI of 21.1, but I'm very happy to reach the 9 stone milestone.

It is about 9 years or so since I was 9 stone. I had more muscle mass then than I do now, so I think it would be no harm to go down another few pounds, but I don't want to lose too much more.

I should reach that weight over the next few weeks so intend to go down to 6:1 or so after that (though I might skip the fast during my TOTM so really only fast 3 days a month).

Dotty (I think?!) asked about tips for getting going. Vegetables (in the form of salds, soups, or stir "fried" in water/broth) are your friend on this diet . Low in calories, filling enough, portions can look big and more like a "normal" meal, and they are healthy. Don't forget to calorie count them though, and some vegetables (the starchy ones like potatoes) will have more calories than vegetables such as cabbage, lettuce, tomatoes etc.

Sorry my last comment maybe wasn't very clear. I don't totally avoid starchy veg on my fast days, just limit the quantities, and I would eat a lot of them on normal eating days. I do find beans and lentils (in soups etc) quite filling, but they are higher in calories than a lot of veg, so I limit the amount on a fast day.

Some blighter?s gone and given me a cold! Don?t know anyone who has a cold but given that I take the bus everywhere it could have been anyone. (Taking the bus at peak time in China is not like sardines in a tin. Sardines in a tin have much more room. The bus comes and you think you?re not going to get on, but not only do you manage to squeeze on but so do ten other people behind you. Not comfy but an experience to remember!)

Hopefully my fast day today won?t be too difficult as a result.

BettySuarez, I too would be a little unsure of 17yo DD doing this WOE because at the moment there?s not any research showing the effect it has on teenagers. It?s certainly not for children as children are still growing and the health benefits that are suggested come from this WOE come in part from switching off the growth hormone and encouraging the body to repair existing cells instead of producing new ones ? great for adults who have finished growing, not good for children or teenagers who need to keep growing. Personally, I had already finished growing at 17, but I seem to remember from biology class that some girls continue growing until the age of 19 and some boys continue growing until 21. I think that one?s got to be your call Betty

MonthlyNeedsToDecide, you don?t have to count calories on non-fast days if you don?t want to. Since the idea is to eat normally, i.e. what your body needs to stay the same weight, not to binge on non-fast days, some people like to count calories to make sure they?re not overdoing it or to make sure they?re not restricting themselves to diet sized portions on non-fast days, so some find it helpful to log the calories they eat on non-fast days ? even if just for a week or two until they get used to the amount of food that is ?normal? for them. That?s what the TDEE business in the OP is all about, for anyone who wants a number to work to on non-fast days. 2000 calories is for the ?average? woman, whoever she is, but we all come in different sizes and have differing levels of activity during the week so our bodies all need slightly differing amounts of food.

But don?t be put off if you don?t want to count calories on non-fast days. I haven?t counted one single calorie on any non-fast day in the 5 months I?ve been doing this. I found after a few fasts my appetite adjusted and I didn?t want to overdo it on non-fast days anyway.

lottie63, don?t worry about the extra 118 kcal. I?d call that a fast day and try to stay inside the 500 next time. The 500 figure comes from being 25% of the ?average? woman?s TDEE. I could be wrong, but I don?t think there have been any studies into the optimum number of calories for fast days so far, but 500 is the figure that has been plumped for (for women) for now. Personally I eat closer to 400 kcal on my fast days as I?m short, not very active and the pounds come off very slowly, but I?m sure the weight would still come off if I were to go up to 500.

swallowedAfly, welcome on board. It?s quite understandable to be sceptical to start with, especially as this WOE goes against some of the more accepted advice out there (e.g. never skip breakfast, eat little and often) and as I mentioned I was a big old sceptic too at the beginning, but I gave it a fair go for a month and was won over!

joeysdreamgarden, oh yes quark is good. My mum made a very low cal baked cheesecake with it which tastes pretty close to the calorie laden version. Yummy. (Sorry, don?t have the recipe here)

Dotty342kids, don?t be put off by the length of the discussion. This WOE really is as simple as TalkinPeace2 made it sound. It?s not complicated, we just love talking about it! And swapping tips of course.

I guess my top tip for fast days would be if you find yourself tempted to eat something that?d take you outside your calories for the day then remind yourself you can have it tomorrow. Always works for me (well, very nearly always).

gonepearshaped I think you really hit the nail on the head when you said this WOE gives you a ?less emotion driven attitude to food?. That?s exactly how I feel now. Finally food is for nourishment, not punishment!

I have completed first week of 5:2 and survived. Exercising too which sparked some debate about how energetic this should be! As mentioned I am doing this to reduce my cholesterol so I am effectively a TOFI (Thin on outside fat inside). Watching Michael Mosley last night which someone mentioned was his pre-fast time, he has a slight tummy which I would be guilty of too, so heres hoping.
Tips for dotty342kids, get a friend on board for moral support
I slept poorly first night of fast but as recommended on these threads sleep easy tea worked a treat the second day
Plan, plan plan your food on fast day and use flavoursome ingredients, basil, lime etc.
My appetite has decreased already on non-fast days and I actually find old foods less appealing as tasting more

Ezzza, what on earth do you eat to have only 400 cals on fast days. Yesterday I had a boiled egg (95c) for breakfast, a small baked potato with tuna & sweetcorn for dinner (302c), greekstyle lemon yoghurt (54c), Options hot chocolate (38c) and a diet chewy bar thing(95c). A few teas with milk brought it to 618.

I managed the nonlunch as I guess the egg was a late brekky and would have helped. Once having eaten dinner, I needed something sweet i found.

Thanks for reminding me about nuts and seeds, rosemarysage. I normally keep some around but have never incorporated them into my diet consistently except for sprinkling sunflower seeds on salads and pureed veggies. Maybe keeping a small container of nuts visible (the rest in the fridge) will prompt me to use them more often. I also should investigate nut milks.

For all those worried about not losing weight- Some may remember I posted a couple of weeks ago. I had lost 7lbs after week 1. yes that's a big weight loss but I know that was water etc caused by sudden Christmas gain. I posted as I hadn't lost anything after week 2 and I was gutted.I didn't lose after week 3 either and was getting quite despondent. I've just weighed after 2 normal eating days (8fasts in) and another 3lbs off. I'm so motivated now as I start my 9th fast day today. I will admit that I have been watching what I eat on normal days(not calorie counting) just not pigging out. this WOE is now working, so persevere if you are not losing, you will get there ;)

Welcome to all the new posters, hope it's something that works for you. It's been a bit of a journey for me...gave up a few times in the first months but started again pretty quickly, sometimes reminding yourself that this is a choice helps...no one is forcing you, a fast is nothing to be scared of.

Fasts finished for this week, and tomorrow starts a catch up on eating out, I have about 6 meals out in 2 weeks, I'm hoping I can use some self restraint. Oh and back on the wine tomorrow too - I've been dreaming of it all week, I currently have a very sore throat so I'm betting the wine doesn't appeal much at all when I taste it.

Morning everyone, well today is the day and I have kick-started it with a cup of tea.

I feel really nervous, don't know why as I rarely eat breakfast anyway!

I have a low cal noodle soup lined up but will try and leave that for as late as possible in the day. Then salmon fillet and salad for dinner.

Good luck everyone and thanks for this brilliant thread x

Lost 3.5 lb after first week! Yippee!

Apologies if this has been addressed in threads 3-8 (which I haven't read) but what are people's thoughts/experiences of fasting when they've got a cold? I'm clearly coming down with something (I work in a school so it's inevitable!) but my fast day is planned for tomorrow.

Lottie Glorious meal soups are good as they come in around 250 calories for a whole pot and if you enjoy cooking it's easy to make a low calorie but highly filling and tasty veggy soup/stew. Most vegetables are very low in calories so you can pile them up. A bit of spice goes a long way and I'm big fan of using a lot of fresh grated ginger & hot sauce to pep up hot meals, and very partial to a lime juice & ginger dressing on salad leaves or a big pile of steamed veg. The desire for eating sugar straight after a meal should lessen over time - this thing does re-train your brain to stop those horrible sugar cravings! However, don't worry about the extra calories, just try and reduce it over time, it will get easier .

Fast day number two for me today (lots of people doing mon and thurs, arent there?)
Scrambled egg with mushroom and red onion, and half a tin of tomatoes

More veg casserole for later, I portioned it up and froze five of them
So thats another two weeks where I don't have to think about what I'll eat on fast days. And after that I'll prob make more, lol

Well done - that is great

What are you eating on your fast days? Do you skip breakfast?

Do you calorie count on non-fast days?

That was to wheresmybook

Don't know Betsy - I had a really bad throat/chest infection in Dec and I ate my way through it, I have another really sore throat again just now but at least this time I don't have a fever, and I have fasted through it...not sure there is a recommended approach other than do what you feel comfortable with.

Yay - have lost 2lbs - this is my second week and after 3rd fast day. Helps me to face today's fast with positivity. I've also discovered MFP - what a great website!

Hello all. Have been lurking on these threads for a while. Have 2 under 3s, work FT condensed hours and am sick of avoiding mirrors. Though I'm thinner now than at many times, I'm still overweight.... But somehow apprehensive about starting this WOE.

So. Please give me the kick I need to take the plunge? Is it really as doable as it sounds? Inspire me with your losses, despite busy lifestyles?