5:2 Diet Thread! Going up to 11!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

tempnameswap hang in there- I felt rubbish on my last fast #2 but my third today has been much easier and less woozy, don't know why

Fast day has been successful in the end. I had a wibble wobble in the middle of the day (upthread) but it turned out I was too cold so I turned on the heating (work from home) et voila - I felt cosy and toasty - basically very comfortable - and the desire for food disappeared. Unfortunately dinner can't be until 9pm. But it's homemade curry (which I made earlier without even tasting it) and it's just an hour or so away. I can hold out.

Hi there, day 3 nearly over, looking forward to a glass of wine tomorrow!

Does anyone else find that they are cold on their fast days? Each day I've fasted I've been absolutely frozen, not on feast days though.

Pickle, I wear so many layers on fast days that I look like some sort of maniac with a clothing fetish. Oddly, the 'feeling cold' is the only effect that hasn't diminished in the 6 months I've been 5:2ing! Still, wearing extra socks is a small price to pay...

Sorry in advance for a long post. Thought about posting this last night but was in too foul a mood so waited today. Had the second fast of the week yesterday and it went badly. Not in terms of keeping to my calories or I should say the impact on the sacales this morning. But instead on how I felt during the day.

Just to give it some context, I have been doing 5:2 since beginning of December with a couple of weeks where I have missed. In general I have found the fasts doable and if anything a little tough around the 3/4pm mark but I have stuck with it and results have been good. Have lost slightly over 4kg so far. Most of that was in the first month.

It seems thought that the fasts are getting harder. I am sure it was 'mental' hunger that I really struggled with yesterday. Just couldnt stop thinking about food. Made the dreaded mistake of not having my normal tea in the morning and instead had herbal teas and decaff coffee. Instead I decided this once to have a boiled egg in the am as a lot of people here do. Really enjoyed it. Rst of the day though I was starving and had a blinding headache. By the time evening came and even after I had had my dinner I was shattered and in a foul mood. Unfortunately led to me losing patience with the kids and having an argument with DH. I said that I was tired due to work stress and the fact that we will be trying to sell our house soon and that I really wanted to eat - as you can see old habits of turning to food when tired/stressed reappearing. DH who is also doing the fasting with me and has been very disciplined just told me that I should stop doing it if I couldnt cope with it. Which made me even more mad.

But when I calmed down today I thought about it and wanted to get your advice as to what I should do. I have never dieted before so not used to having to control calories - choose to in general just eat healthily. My downfall has been carbs. I was attacted to this WOL because it doesnt make you feel as you are depriving yourself - I enjoy food.

Now I am wondering should I 1. just persist with the 5:2 and write it off as a bad day or 2. move to 6:1 until and slowly build up or 3. do 2 half day fasts or 4. just stop altogether.

i really dont want to stop completely but ound this last fast really hard and dont want to feel like this again. Has anybody had such spectacularly bad days when they started off really well on this diet.

Finally, I find like another poster above that for the last month I lose weight after the fast and then put it back on again after a feed day - so depending on which day you compare I havent budged much over the last month. My TDEE is fairly low at around 1640.

Any advice for me from the experience fasters? Would appreciate and apologies for long post - if you have got to the bottom of this.

Finished my 5th fast today - again easy apart from the awakening the hunger thing. Drank a Miso soup at 4 and was scarfing down my dinner by 5 - was ravenous!

I've got 80 calories left - any ideas what I could have???? I loathe that Options Hot Chocolate I bought - it's nasty and fake tasting.

4th fast day for me ( doing Mon& Thursday) and as I was at work it felt fairly easy. Lasted until 2 .15 which was an 18 hr fast ,and then had home made roasted squash soup with chilli and ginger which was absolutely delicious and 160 cals. just had a dinner of baked haddock with broccoli and vine tomatoes and feel replete.pickle i havent noticed that Ive felt cold at all.
As its half term next week and Im away on Thurs- sun I was going to change my fast day to Mon and Wed next week.Ill then be on 4 feast days till the next fast day. Has anyone noticed if this makes any difference to weight loss? im very early in this process and I dont want to mess it up. Ive really been rigid with it so far ,the first time Ive not ' cheated ' on a plan for years. It still feels too good to be true that you can eat what you want on the other 5 days to me!!
really looking forward to a Bounty bar and wine tomorrow! Good luck to fasters and feasters alike

mamarun - are you still trying to lose weight or are you just needing the health benefits? If so I'd drop to 6:1, same benefits, less pain.

If not you must be really close with that TDEE ?

Hi laurie i am still tryng to lose weight. But not very much more - probably about 3.5kg more. I am pretty short and sedentary hence I think the low TDEE.

For me this I think is more about the mental hurdle that I have set myself. I think if i forgot that I was fasting i'd probably be able to do it easily as have fasted in the past (religious reasons) fairly easily.

mamarun do you usually eat at breakfast on a fast? How do you split your 500 cals in the day? I'm wondering whether the egg set off hunger pangs...

But if you do this the fasting does seem to do something to your appetite - if not shrink it (even for 'off' days) certainly teach you that a hunger pang does not = the need to eat. And because nothing is forbidden, things don't become irresistible.

This is true. But I'm finding myself irrationally eating and eating because I enjoy the taste and the full feeling (I haven't felt full without guilt for years). I'm not weighing myself till I've been on 5:2 for 6 weeks, but I fear I am gaining weight on this WOE :(

Hi all

My 1st post on these threads .... Have been lurking in the background for a couple of weeks since I decided to try 5:2

It's only my 3rd week but I'm noticing that the weight loss seems spread across fast days and the day after....

Eg started this week at 10'6 fasted Monday, Wednesday and so far have seen scales drop to 10'4 then 10'2 today and seem similar patterns the first two weeks with static on the other says but a small gain back last weekend due to a lot of chocolate .... I was driving a lot so snacked to keep awake and because it was there

Has any one else seen that or is do you all avoid the scales in between weigh ins?

Hi bsshbosssh no I usually dont eat breakfast. Tend at most to have a miso soup for lunch, tea and coffee during day but save the bulk of my calories for my evening meal around 6pm - i just want to feel that I can have a good meal in the evening. So it tends to be what we eat normal days just slightly smaller portions. It is possible that the egg for me set off hunger pangs - but I liked reading about how people had split calories across the day and wondered whether that might work for me. As it does feel a little hardcore waiting till evening - as I said I do struggle around 3/4pm mark. But am afraid also that if I ate anything more substantial in the am that my evening meal wont be enough to stop me from feeling famished before bed.

I really thought I could do this and cant get my head round why it is becomg so difficult. Even on feed days lately I find I am really craving carbs but am having to really control myself. When i started in december i was like most people where i found that on feed days I was eating a lot less and in fact felt uncomfortable eating like i used to before.

Another option i guess could be for me to move a little more ie exercise on fast days or in general adn see whether that helps.

New fasters - please dont be put off my recent experience. I adamantly believe that this is a great WOL and am a huge advocate.

Mamarun don't beat yourself up about it. Fasting is a lifelong way of eating and not a diet. If you are going to adopt this way of life you will have to play around with it and find the way that works best for you. There are good fast days and not so good fast days and at first there seems to be no pattern to it then as you get to know your "fasting self" you may begin to notice patterns which will help you find the right regime for you. I think rough fasts maybe caused by what I have eaten and drank on the night before a fast , TOTM and food choices on fast days just to name a few.

You have plenty of time to get it right and your fasts will evolve as you figure out what works for you. You could try 700 cal fasts and reduce as you feel comfortable or 1 fast day per week, just skipping breakfast or having an eight hour calorie eating window without calorie restriction. You will find a way to make it work for you

just messed up my fast day by eating two meatballs in the gorgeous sundried tomato sauce which i had slowed cook for hrs in the oven for DDs and their pals. after tasting it - make sure of the seasoning I snapped and got a slice of crusty wholemeal bread and spread it with the tomato sauce and gobbled it up

I was only meant to have 300 cals but I reckon it must have been over that,

God it was lovely

So am getting on with it. have now signed up to Myfitnesspal, have realised i can only eat 1,500 cals a day to even just maintain my current weight and need to get my running shoes out.sigh.

ah well, better luck next week.

Sorry posted when I meant to preview. What I was trying to say was find a way of easing into it and move at a pace you are happy with

thanks skinnyeye that is good advice. I know that the beauty of this WOL is that it is flexible - I guess I forgot to apply it to myself. Will think more about what I eat the day before as well. Next fast day is officially Monday but may try a mini fast tomorrow - will see how I feel. Think I need to get back in the saddle

mamarun
You need to up your exercise levels.
Stand up when on the phone, run up and down the stairs, walk to the shops, walk a bit quicker than you normally would to get the heart going.
And on fast days drink lots of water
Its not like Ramadan - where you stuff yourself before dawn and after dusk.
Therefore you have to stay hydrated - as much of your fluids come from your food.

Silly test
What colour is your urine at the end of a fast day
compare with here drdietright.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/urine-Colour-Chart-3.gif
as dehydration is really bad for your mood.

I think I may just do that - forget about the 500 calories for a bit and just see how I can make small changes and if they feel fine then move on a little further. And I do think i need to put my scales away

I haven't ate for 22 hours. Verrrrrrrrrrry looking forward to supper

hamster
You have to train yourself to only weigh yourself once a week, ideally at the same time in the same clothes.
I lose up to 1kg every time I fast - because my whole digestive tract is empty. But that is not true weight loss!
Over the weekend I put back on over 1kg because I eat and drink.
So I weigh myself on a Friday morning - and the results are a steady 1-2 pound loss every week until I hit my current plateau.

Think of this way of eating in Weeks and Months and years, NOT days.

BMJ - the sense of liberation at being able to eat whatever you like will settle down. I know, when I started, I was scoffing croissants and all sorts on food days. But that only lasted a few weeks - fast days seem to act as a 'reset' button and have made me much more aware of what I'm eating generally. Just try not to stress about it too much and see how it goes. I suspect over-thinking it puts too much emphasis on what you 'can' and 'can't' eat.

putthehamsterbackinitscage those daily fluctuations would drive me mad and would demotivate me so I hide the scales in DD's room in a place where it's a hassle to get out, then stick to my official weighins. Generally the weight goes downwards - 47lbs off in 12 months so far (though not on 5:2).

mamarun I exercise on my fast days to preoccupy my body and mind instead of eating and I plan all my errands and hard work projects for those two days for the same reason. If I eat earlier on in the day, my appetite is stoked and I'm history. So I have to save the 500 cals for the evening meal. I'm at my busiest on fast days.

hi Tip yes i think you may be right. DH has been spending 10-15 mins every night since he started this WOL doing gentle exercise in the evening - crunches, push ups etc. he says that this has been really helping him firm up too. I think i need to start something too - staying mobile. Interestingly I did finally Dr Moselys Horizon show on exercise. I am normally good about water but think definitely didnt have enough yesterday but downed buckets of herbal tea.

have to say havent paid too much attention to colour of urine (unless particularly dark like a 7- as you cant miss that) sorry couldnt find any other way of saying that. But i will pay attention next time. I guess anything is worth a shot so maybe I became too dehydrated during the day. TOTM is still a good week and a half away so didnt think that that would have affected me.