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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet Thread! Going up to 11!

999 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 29/01/2013 13:17

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. Wink You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request. Wink

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
Dotty342kids · 06/02/2013 17:08

Thanks for tips everyone. Sadly I hate seeds and nuts so they're not an option but think adding toast / fruit toast and butter and full fat creamy yogs (and I love those!) to my days should do the tip. I'm even going to make the mash with single cream - this feels so madly wrong but can't wait for weigh in next week (am waiting ten days from first fast for maximum impact!)

whethergirl · 06/02/2013 17:26

Can someone please explain TDEE to me? I know what it stands for but not sure what it actually means! I'm even more baffled as to why Dotty is trying to make up calories?

So my TDEE is 2257. This is how many calories I burn a day, right? So I'm supposed to try and not eat over this amount in calories?

gonepearshaped · 06/02/2013 17:35

I don't quite understand the water thing... so everyone says the first bit of weight you lose is mainly water and that's why the first loss often seems quite big. I still don't quite get why - especially as when I fast I drink shed loads more water - can see its true though - my first fast I 'lost' 3lbs in 24 hours (came back though) Confused

Also, over the past 14 days I've done 5 fasts and apparently lost 1lb over all (scales up and down lots) but tape measure also says half an inch gone off waist and hips. In the past (e.g on low carb diets) I 'd have to lose more lbs to shrink by 1/2 inch.

Last question Smile anyone done back to back fasts? I'm doing 4:3 mainly cause I can't run my usual 40+ miles this week due to injury and I'm trying to shift my last 8lbs. Due to fast on Fri but got dinner out, really don't want to do fast at weekend so that leaves tomorrow. Thanks all!

ayshigirl · 06/02/2013 17:36

any stats geniuses out there please? I bought new digital scales and weighed myself at the start of this (ahem) diet a few weeks back but accidentally selected the 'male' option so it was showing my body fat to be v low when it's in fact at the top of the range for me I;ve corrected the setting to female now but how do i recalculate what it was to begin with? Blush

Dotty342kids · 06/02/2013 17:53

whethergirl, on a non fasting day you should aim to eat your usual daily amount (roughly 2000 calories for a woman, depending on size / activity levels - in your case worked out to be 2257).
Today, I've worked mine out to be about 1300. I'm trying to get them nearer to my TDEE as otherwise there isn't the large difference between fasting / non fasting days which is what makes this WOE work.
I think!

TalkinPeace2 · 06/02/2013 18:03

TDEE : have a play with the calculator. Look at age, height and sex.
Its always been daft that the "guideline" calories for women are 2000 when that takes NO account of height and activity ....
think of the varioation in food needs in these pictures
www.cockeyed.com/photos/bodies/heightweight.html

And I'll second the - avoid ALL "Diet" foods - they are full of additives and sweeteners and junk.
Read the ingredients list on a zero fat yoghurt and compare with that in normal plain yogurt. Nuff said.

Bodyfat scales - are inaccurate to around 15% anyway (I had a full body scan done at a hospital as part of a research project) - go by pinch an inch. Much safer.

64zoolane · 06/02/2013 18:06

Hi, just checking in with a couple of doubts I've got. I realise it's early days - this is my second week doing the 5:2, and tomorrow will be my fourth fast - but I'm a bit concerned that I am not experiencing the improvements others report. I don't feel full of energy (in fact, this morning, after fasting yesterday, I felt exhausted and sluggish and couldn't get out of bed). I don't feel like my appetite or my digestion have been miraculously regulated - I've been back to my usual non-stop grazing, sugar cravings and pigging all afternoon today, and at the weekend I actually had a bit of IBS, which I haven't had in years. Is it too early? Is there something wrong with me? Are my pre 5:2 diet and habits and sugar addiction just too beyond hope? I'm terrified that the answer will be to watch what I eat on non-fast days, because I know there's no chance in hell my willpower will hold. On the plus side, I think I've lost 1.3kg so far (only think because of a long and pointless scale-related saga).

TalkinPeace2 · 06/02/2013 18:16

Give it time.
It took over a month for my system to get used to it. DH still dislikes fast days - but his parents were the ones with heart problems.
This is for the rest of your life.
Stop thinking in days and think in weeks, months, years
and the incremental changes become less of an issue.

sausages51 · 06/02/2013 19:19

Well had another quick weigh this morning-2 more lbs gone so 16th Jan-Feb 6th 8lbs lost....can this be right ?

Ghanagal1717 · 06/02/2013 19:48

oopsies...went over my cals on todays fast (640). Not going to stress though...am thinking long term (nod to TIP's advice here).....will hope for better on fridays fast day (3rd in the week).

Dotty342kids · 06/02/2013 19:49

sausages that sounds ace! Well done!

ManVsFoodRocks · 06/02/2013 19:57

Crikey sausages that's great, well done Smile

Could I ask how people are feeling about eating on their non-fast days? I am fairly confident that elation at feeling free from daily guilt and calorie counting is leading me to eat food that is too rich and calorific. I know I have more latitude in eating 'well' on an off-day because I'm doing ADF for a couple of weeks, but I'm concerned that I'm actually eating 'abnormally', as opposed to just 'normally and relaxed'. Does that make sense? I still have to teach myself things like restraint and portion control, and living a life that veers between eating like an ascetic monk and eating like a king isn't mentally or physically healthy.

But perhaps I'm being too pessimistic - today I had pumpernickel bread and peanut butter for breakfast with a banana, then a chicken salad for lunch (lettuce, bit of roast chicken, bit of bacon, some sauteed sweet potato on top) and a small serving of ice cream, and this evening I had homemade pasta with pumpkin, and butter, and parmesan, and walnuts (!!) and then coffee granita and mascarpone cream after. Oh and I had a Creme Egg.

That sort of thing is fine for a birthday, right? But I can't let myself think that's 'normal' eating Confused

The stupid thing is I don't even feel hungry on off days - I'm just cooking lovely food out of sheer relief!

Oh I'm wanking on, sorry. I'm just trying to get my head straight, so to speak.

Galaxymum · 06/02/2013 19:59

Hi everyone! I'm all set to start my 1st Fast Day tomorrow. I've been reading the book today and it makes so much sense. Hoping it'll help my eczema and other health problems plus I want to lose a bit of weight - half a stone to a stone. I had lost this on Rosemary Conley but but found the maintaining on the low treats so hard and gradually got lax when under stress. This seems like it will help my health. And I love the idea - you can always have it tomorrow! That fits in with me!

I'm planning on having porridge as a late breakfast which gives me lots of energy then have dinner of turkey and vegetables with my daughter.

This thread is an excellent read. Some great tips on the other thread as well. It is very supportive and motivating.

GreenEggsAndNichts · 06/02/2013 20:04

gonepearshaped Part of the initial weight loss with this WOE is from the fact that you just don't have as much food making its way through your system as you usually would. 500 calories worth of food will weigh a lot less than 2000.

Subsequent weigh-ins will be once you've been eating that way for a while, and the lower amount of food in your system will be normal.

OP posts:
BsshBossh · 06/02/2013 20:05

Well done sausages that sounds right to me (especially if you have lots to lose - have you? Doesn't matter of course!).

ManVsFoodRocks that sounds like normal balanced (and yummy) eating to me. So long as you're not regularly going over your TDEE then you are fine.

BsshBossh · 06/02/2013 20:08

Galaxymum it's anecdotal of course but in the two weeks I've been fasting I've not had my usual eczema flare up (which usually can be so bad I have to wear white cotton gloves). Hope it eases up for you too.

Dotty342kids · 06/02/2013 20:14

I am actually really looking forward to my next fast day on Friday. Weird. But in a good way!

ManVsFoodRocks · 06/02/2013 20:18

Oh d'you think so Bssh I don't think the servings were immense, and I didn't have seconds of anything. But a combination of a shrinking appetite and two decades of food guilt makes it feel WRONG.

I think I might bite the bullet and add it up on MFP just out of interest...

drmummmsy · 06/02/2013 20:21

right, i'm doing my own version of this tomorrow...prob totally flouts the whole principle behind 5:2

i'm going to eat something small not a rich tea biccy on the hour every hour with a cuppa/coffee so as not to get hungry...cause once i get hungry, that's it, game over Grin

drmummmsy · 06/02/2013 20:22

but stay in the 500 cal limit that it

ManVsFoodRocks · 06/02/2013 20:35

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight....

Calculating on MFP (and I erred on the side of caution [as in over-estimating rather than under]) I'm probably around 300 cals over my TDEE for the day Hmm

Well: it's best to know these things. And it means my instincts were right.

Like I say, as I'm doing ADF for now I can probably just about get away with it but I need to snap out of it sharpish!

cardiffmummy · 06/02/2013 20:53

Hmmmm...think I might have overdone it a little on today's non-fast day!!! Huge pile of grapes, three welshcakes and a wispa...oh and toast mid morning, on top of normal meals!! So am aiming for a fast day tomorrow - was going to be Friday but think I need to knock this on the head before I totally lose control!! First couple of weeks my craving for rubbish seemd to have disappeared but has now reappeared with a vengeance!! Although tired and stressed at moment so might be why??

ManVsFoodRocks - Happy Birthday!! (I'm presuming its yours??) SmileThose 300cals will easily be cancelled out by your fast days if you're doing ADF. I'm impressed you didn't have seconds. I'm not even going to look at mfp - my meals weren't exactly healthy on top of all the rubbish!!

Well done Sausages!!

Snowkey · 06/02/2013 20:55

Gonepairshaped the reason why most of the initial loss is water has to do with how your body uses water to store carbohydrate energy in the form of glycogen in the liver. Something like 75% of glycogen is water. When you reduce the amount of food you eat your body starts to deplete your glycogen stores first, so a lot of the weight is water, then it starts using the fat stored in your fat cells. So when you're on a diet and have a heavy weekend with lots of carbs and you think you've put on 3-4lbs, it's really mostly water weight, although continue with overeating and the body runs out of liver storage space and it will start to store the excess energy in fat cells.
And this is the reason that weight loss on a low carb diet is so amazingly dramatic in he first 2 weeks and then it slows down to a more regular 1-2lb after that.

ErikNorseman · 06/02/2013 20:57

Drmummsy well give that a go, but I think you would surprise yourself if you learnt to stop fearing hunger. Hunger is 50% in the mind (disclaimer:made that up) but seriously, the fear of hunger is what leads so many of us to get fat. Hunger is manageable, it doesn't build and build to unbearable levels, it peaks, fades and peaks again. Part of the beauty of discovering fasting last year for me was realising that hunger won't do me any harm, and that in fact I can ignore it to the point that it doesn't bother me. That was a bloody revelation!

whethergirl · 06/02/2013 21:38

Thanks for the clarification Dotty re TDEE, that makes sense now.

ManVsFoodRocks - don't sweat it, I wouldn't call that pigging out at all mind you i have pretty low standards. Your non fast day food made my mouth water, and only 300 calories over.

Totally agree with your made up claim ErikNorseman, I would panic as soon as I felt hunger but really am pleased at how much I can tolerate it on fast days. It's just a feeling in your tummy, that's how I see it now. It doesn't trigger the usual panic it used to. And even the worst of tummy rumbles never lasts for long.

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