5:2 Diet Thread! Going up to 11!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

swallowedafly My fitness pal app/online is useful for finding out the protein content of your diet - shows up protein, carbs & fat alongside calories.

Yes BetsyVanBell, it was me that posted about the proposed change to the BMI calculator, but even though I think the new version makes more sense, like you, I'm waiting 'til I'm a bit thinner before I adopt it! Gonna stick with the one all the doctors and nutritionists are still using for now.

Well done on the 6lbs!

Oh morning! Um, I hope it's OK to barge in and post - I'm a bit embarrassed, like I've shoved my way onto a crowded pub table and started talking to people But it does help loads to articulate it all, esp. as I've got no intention of talking to anyone IRL about this, as they'll all freak out & say it's unhealthy etc. etc.

Anyway yesterday was an 'off' day & I do think I overdid it - although it was v. interesting to see how my appetite is reducing. I had a substantial but not enormo breakfast (2 slices of pumpernickel and peanut butter, and a small banana), and didn't want anything else until 3pm. When I had a strawberry millefeuille, which I do not regret for an instant, because it was sort of an exercise in the first guilt-free cream cake of my life . I then had salads for dinner and more apple crumble than I needed, but never mind. I'm ADF at the moment so should get away with it but do need to make sure I don't eat over my TDEE.

Today I'm fasting and will have coffee all morning , a cup of bouillon with a slice of pumpernickel and a small apple for lunch, and for dinner chicken and butterbean salad, and an orange.

Massive well dones on the 6lb Betsey - and I bet being so near 'normal' BMI feels goooooooooooood

Well done to those sticking at it (and for the weight loss too!) .

No planned fasting for me me this week as I've got a revolting cold, but I'm pretty sure that loss of appetite is meaning that I won't be over my recommended calorie intake (1800ish) anyway.

I'm also finding it interesting how taking away the 'not allowed' element for most of the week also removes a lot of the desire for the food in question .

Hey ManVsFoodRocks, don?t be embarrassed, pull up a chair and join us! Your non-fast day food yesterday doesn?t sound horrendous to me. The TDEE is a helpful guideline but it?s not a strict rule. There?s no harm in eating slightly over it on one non-fast day and slightly under it on another. As you?re doing ADF you?ll probably get away with the odd piggy day a bit better too.

Don?t stress out too much about how much you eat on non-fast days. I started off on ADF too (went down to 4:3 a few weeks ago) and I haven?t counted a single calorie on non-fast days since I started. I found after a few fasts I naturally stopped overeating and started making sensible food choices on non-fast days, so don?t worry too much about it.

ManVsFood Don't be silly! That's what we're all doing here - as you say, I can't imagine getting a favourable response from telling people IRL, though I think my other half might join in soon and he's certainly happy to eat my wholesome low calorie fast day supper.

Your off day doesn't sound bad at all - not in this WOE anyway and besides I often find a higher fat intake day in amongst a generally lower calorie but healthy diet often helps accelerate weight loss, or kickstart it when I've plateaued. I don't know if there's a scientific rationale behind and that's from a sample size of 1 so may be baseless! Anyway, a day of cream and crumble will do no real harm!

Being on the cusp of 'normal' feels bloody amazing - I've been leaden and lumpen for so long that it's taking some adjustment. I weighed my grocery shopping the other day and it weighed as much as the weight I've lost over the last year or so (gosh just realised it's nearly 3 stone now!!!) That was an eye opener.

Ezzza hee hee, curses to being a short arse(ish)

So, fasted for the first time yesterday, and boy was dinner good! I did dream about eating baked beans on toast during the night, but am not as madly hungry this morning as I assumed I would be. No more so than usual really.
One thing I noticed yesterday was that I was thirsty all day. I drank lots of water (this is all I ever drink anyway) but it just didn't seem to sort it out.
Anyone else encountered this?

Thank you for being so nice :D you have made me break my Mumsnet ban

Betsy have you got an appropriate celebration in mind for when you're a Normal? If I ever get my BMI down to 25 (for context: I used to have a BMI of 38.3, about 10 years ago; it went down to 29.5 once, oh happy day; and it's currently just over 32, so I can't imagine ever being 'normal') I would buy such tiny tiny pants they would basically consist of a cobweb and a feather

It's way too early for me to see whether this is going to work for me, but my mental state is very good - the prospect of going for a coffee with DH and cheerfully ordering a sticky bun without feeling shite about it is fairly revolutionary....

Dotty yes to the thirst! I think that's a good thing, because we often mistake thirst for hunger, and have something to eat when a cup of tea would do the job nicely.

Congrats to all you losers and happy IFers! Nice to read all your positive stories.

I had a strawberry millefeuille, which I do not regret for an instant, because it was sort of an exercise in the first guilt-free cream cake of my life

ManVsFood that must have been a moment! I can just picture you hovering over the counter full of gorgeous cream cakes, and then plumping for the millefeuille! Great stuff! This is how it's going to be from now on if you stick to this WOL!

Don't worry about barging in - you might encourage other men to join us - and we all like to hear such encouraging tales as yours!

I'll tell anybody - and I do. I belong to a walking group - about 40 strong, most of us over 50 - and many of those have taken up this WOL after hearing about it from me. When we met last, in November, it was the major topic of conversation.

Manvsfoodrocks Hmmm some new spring clothes might well be in order... tiny pants won't work as still well chunky & wobbly around the arse and thighs, top half looks good though! I know I have to get into a swimsuit in public in April - so might gulp buy a new one. Saggy belly is clearly never going to get firm thanks to DCs but the bit between boobs & belly button looks great! Thighs awful and this year my lovely burgeoning varicose vein has decided to pop right out (again, I'm sure that wouldn't be nearly so bad without the disastrous birthing of the DCs). Maybe bikini top and leggings for swimming then

Just worked out my BMI was over 31 sixteen months ago...

Dotty I drink pots and pots of weak herbal tea all day when fasting, I also know I often eat (on non fast days) mistaking thirst for hunger.

Hi to everyone....not only am i new to 5-2, im also new to the whole web site!!!. So much to take in,so please be gentle with me :).
I read the book and did my 1st fast day yesterday. I am well within my BMI tho suspect im "thin on the outside, fat on the inside" as my waist is big in ratio to my hips..(31w-35h). I'd like to lose about 8lbs/3inches, but its more for the long term health benefits.
I managed not to go above 500c no problem, even doing a fitness class as well, so today is a normal day, yet im concerned that i dont eat 2000 calories, will i end up not losing weight?. I tend to eat fairly healthily although portions can be man sized, im never hungry 1st thing so dont usually eat until lunchtime anyway?.
I know there are lots of different types of us doing this, and just wondered if anyone can advise me whether this is for me, and if i will see results?.
Appreciate that you "long timers" ;) have us newbies jumping on all the time, tugging your sleeve saying "hey, hey..." but its only cos we look up to you grovel grovel.

Hello, can I join? I have been doing 4:3 for about 4 months (with some weeks of 5:2 in between) and have lost approx 10lbs. I've been reading these threads and everyone seems so supportive

Hi Artemis - This is a friendly place . I'm only 3 weeks in so not a long timer but can advise a bit! Have you worked out your TDEE (link at the top)? It may not be 2000, especially if you're already slim - mine is around the 1700 mark I think. Lots of people here look at their total weekly allowance on non-fast days rather than daily (so 5 days of 2000ish +2 days 500) and work according to that, eating less on week days and allowing for more indulgent weekends - a practice I've fallen into quite naturally but I don't calorie count on non fast days at all - though I've been monitoring my food intake for many months so have got good eating habits now.

Stick to it and you will lose weight, you might find it's slow but it's for life not just a faddy thing!

Hi mummyof2girlsx Welcome and congratulations! You might be interested in the maintenance thread that's been started up too: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/big_slim_whatever_weight_loss_club/1674179-I-F-5-2-4-3-Maintaining-the-healthy-weight

Hello, what a fabulous amoount of information there is here, I've bought MM's book but finding this more accessible.

My first fast day was Friday, but not sure how long my longest gap was- and having read these boards and the Hugh FW guardian article last night, I'm wondering about whether 12 hour gap is enough and going to go for 16 hours instead. That means I've got to get to 2pm today... eeep!

Do you count milk in tea or stock as "food" in your fast hours IYSWM?

Thanks for the welcome BetsyVanBell I will take a look at the maintenance thread now! I am on a non-fast day today and looking forward to a lovely lunch out with my mum as its my day off work
Have a good day all fasters and non-fasters!

Ah thank you for the warm welcome BetsyVanBell :) and also for the link. I checked my TDEE and its 1877, so that gives me a starting point. I do a couple of exercise classes a week and im hoping with 5-2 i can shift my extra inches round my waist...Its all new to me as ive never counted calories or thought about what i ate before, a definate learning curve for me but i suspect i will be a convert soon ha ha.

Miffy Hello! Yes milk and stock all counts. Herbal tea or black tea/coffee is good as virtually calorie-free. Some people measure out their milk allowance for the day so as not to go over the 500cals. You've got less than 4 hours to go but well done for going for it, it took me 2 weeks to get to 16 hours so don't worry if you can't manage it! Good luck

artemis I must admit I've never really calorie counted either (till now). The 500cals seems to be a must though but I think now I've worked out the calories in some of staple fast day foods & recipes I won't need to much now. There's a recipe link thread at the top too, I should probably look at it & post up some myself! I tend to go for a small bit of lean protein (eg, salmon fillet poached in lime, ginger & jalapenos) with piles of steamed veg & salad leaves - you can eat a huge plateful of veg for very few calories - highly satisfying and that sample meal is 230 calories!

Hi, i'd like to join if i may. On my 2nd fast day today. Started off at 13 stone on Sunday morning, 12.11lb this morning, feel great already! I'm only 5.2", so 4 stone to lose to get back to pre-baby weight (baby is now 7!)

I've got a real buzz from the fast days. Homemade Hot and sour soup is getting me through the day at 25 cals a bowl, with light meal in the evening.

I've never dieted before, having spent 40 years watching my mum beat herself up, calorie counting and spending a small fortune at various dieting clubs. I just didn't see the point.

Hadn't heard about this until last Wednesday when went to lunch with friends. 3 of them had tried and hated it, so I forgot about it thinking it was a fad. Got the kindle book at 99p and very glad I did too. It's simple enough and easy enough to follow.

Only downside is the sleepless nights for past 3 days, I DO like my sleep!

Thanks for the welcome and reply Betsy, so it's best to just have herb tea or lemon water as I'm doing now... trying to keep busy!

BTW, would like to lose 11lbs to get me under 10stone

Today's a non-fast day and I couldn't be arsed eating until 11am (bacon and eggs!). I felt a bit of hunger but since I started fasting I was quite non-plussed by the feeling of emptiness. Result!

Welcome to anyone new. Well today was meant to be a fast day but have migraine from hell so decided to knock fast on the head for today (it happens to us all at times) so dont despair if you have failed fast as there is always tomorrow.

ezzza I'm with you this is officially the most sustainable WOE ever - I've never stuck to any diet for longer than 3 months & have been doing this for last 6 months & have no intention of stopping.

Bssh that's really interesting - i found that yesterday! (non fast day). I thought I'd be face-down in icecream by 6am but no

Today's fast going oddly well. I'm working and am perfectly clear-headed and able to concentrate, and not especially hungry. Planning my 'lunch' at 1pm which would give a full 16 hour fast but will leave it longer if possible. If I hold off until 6pm my dinner will be much nicer, with the full 500 cals all in one hit, and a total fast of about 22 hours!

Thanks for being so nice and welcoming Bread :) I should probably out myself as a laydee, though. Sorry for the confusing username!

I have been doing this since December but definitely go over the top on the non fast day and recently bought the book. I read it was possible to do it from 2pm to to 2pm, so I am attempting that this week to see if it is any easier.

Yesterday I had around 900 calories until 2pm then had seafood and cottage cheese for supper (275 cal) and today I have Oatso Simple Porridge with water (98 cal).

I am now literally counting the hours until 2pm when I can tuck into my 266 calorie meal. I hope this works for me as I do find it quite a struggle getting through the working day. It anyone else doing it this way?