5:2 Diet Thread! Going up to 11!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

I was 'addicted' to a can or two of diet coke every day...until I finally took on board this was really bad for my health. Now I just drink plain soda-stream soda if I want fizzy. Also, I find I am eating way less on feed-days than I used to before IF. Possibly undereating? Not too worried about this as I know I will work it out/get on top if it over time. I do see IF as a lifetime thing - nothing like all my old diets where as soon as I lost my weight I felt free to start overeating again, and always put it right back on! Anyway, please do think about stopping drinking diet drinks which contain so many ghastly unpronounceable additives!

Evening all! It's a long time since I last posted on here it seems. Wau these threads move on so quickly it's hard to keep track.. I've been doing 4:3 since the beginning of January and my fast days are Monday, Wednesday and Friday. This morning I weighed myself and have officially lost 8.8 lbs in a month, WUUHUU !!

I absolutely love this WOL and feel like for the first time in a long while, I'm in control of my eating. I love the simplicity of the fast days and the feeling of being 'in tune' with my body.

I've been overweight now for about 6 years and every year I've started some kind of a diet at the start of the year with the hope of being able to wear nice clothes in the summer. This year, I'm actually hoping my dream will come true.

Good luck to everyone and hope you're all enjoying this WOL as much as I am!

I've done it... I've finally caught up!
I started reading from the beginning of Perfect 10 on Monday when I did my first fast... And now I'm here. So hello and good evening to you all.

I watched Horizons back in August and found it fascinating but was a little sceptical, thought no more about it until I read an article recently and decided I had nothing to lose (except lbs!) so would give it a whirl.. I got the book on Friday night, speed read it and found these threads.
Someone's advice was jump in, do it now (think it was TIP2?) so I did.
I ate my last meal on Sunday evening and didn't eat again until Monday lunchtime, just under 16 hours between. Went ok, better than I thought and took the plunge again on Wednesday for my 2nd fast.
I have a lot to lose. A lot. But I'm not just here for the weight loss, the health benefits astound me and inspire me, as do you all. This is my first experience of MN, which does get a bad press and I've been pleasantly surprised. Helpful, supportive, tips and tricks... Brilliant! I'm in, if you'll have me?

Wow Fazerina well done!! If you don't mind me asking, how much weight (in total) did you have to loose?

MummaMoosey I too was sceptical after watching Horizon. Still am, but it's early days. This is just my second week, so we'll do this together :)

Evening everyone! Newcomers and returners especially!

Of course we'll have you Mumma! I forecast you'll soon be joining the "Helpful, supportive, tips and tricks" brigade yourself!

I'm currently laid up in bed (but feeling no pain, folks, so spare the sympathy!). I started feeling shivery and 'not quite with it' whilst making tonight's dinner (Pizzas, so that's my job!). I had my dinner and just sat there - found myself watching 'Four in a bed'! so I knew something wasn't right. Took my temperature and I'm currently 38.3C, which I'm told is officially a fever!

Not wishing to be a burden to anyone, I took to my bed - with a few goodies!

Being of the 'Feed a fever, feed a cold', school of thought, I loaded my tray with - first of all the remnants of the bottle of port we'd opened over Christmas. To my huge disappointment, there was only an inch or so in the bottom! Could have done with 3 at least (there is an unopened bottle in the cupboard, but I couldn't justify opening it. [saint]

Then I found half a packet of crystallised ginger, an unopened bar of chilli chocolate and the last couple of inches of a chocolate covered bar of marzipan - plus 3 choc liqueurs.

So I'm steadily munching my way through that lot. I just emailed my wife for a mug of cocoa, and I'm loving that. Have to report that the chilli chocolate and ginger combination is a real winner!

I've also just received my copy of 'The Fast Diet', so, as well as browsing these threads, I shall be perusing that - and reporting back where necessary!

I ordered three copies of this book (one each for my two kids and me) at the beginning of Jan - from a local bookshop I'm anxious doesn't close. I was given 20% off, so I was happy with that. However, the book never arrived! I was told the priority was Amazon and supermarkets! I received a phone call yesterday saying the books were now in and collected them earlier today.

Can I make a plea to all the newcomers to this WOL to make sure you scan the Tips and Links thread, where a great deal of research has been gathered. IME, you're far more likely to succeed in something if you know why you're doing something, as well as how to do something!

IMO after 10 weeks on this plan and lurking and listening and learning for all that time, anyone looking for a quick fix in terms of weight loss, this is probably not the plan for you. We all know that the truth is, diets like those where you show huge losses in the first few weeks, there isn't one of them that is sustainable.
Can't eat this, musn't drink that? How on earth can that be a long tem achievable plan? Let's face it, we wouldn't be here now if it were.

However if it's a long term, lean, healthy, best that you can be version of you that you are after, without depriving yourself of your favourite treats - for the most part - then you are in the right place. If it takes 6 months or a year to reach that stage so what? I guarantee that this wol will work if you if you just chill out, listen to the advice given by those who have been doing it for ages and basically just get on with it. It's so flexible too! And very, very cheap.

We all obviously want to do it otherwise we wouldn't be here. Fasts can occasionally be challenging but they are over quickly in reality aren't they? They are so worth it too, for the health benefits alone if nothing else......just so happens I have lost half a stone, 9st 12lbs to 9 st 5 lbs!! And yes it has been a bit up and down but worth persevering.

I apologise if I'm stating the obvious but this is how I see this wol. And it's really exciting!!

By the way, the best piece of advice I read on these threads was one of Talkingpeace2's genuine pearls of wisdom which was, when you are on your fast days move about as much as possible to burn off some of that visceral fat round your stomach. It works!!
She gives loads of great advice as does Laska, Cyclitist, Bread and Wine, Snowkey, Ezza and Greeneggs. Soz in advance to all the others I should have mentioned.......
Exercise and moving around suppresses the appetite, who knew!!!

Prettymaidsallinarow I completely agree that this is not a quick fix crash diet, but rather a sustainable long term way of eating.

I do get a little irritated whenever I read one of those ill-informed press pieces which suggests this WOE will lead someone with no history of or even tendency toward eating disorders into a starve-binge mentality. I feel like before anyone writes one of those pieces they should first read the latest one or two threads on here and read for themselves how this WOE has helped so many of us gradually readjust our eating habits to a much healthier and more balanced diet.

Oh dear, sounding grumpy today. Probably because I have a cold and now have to play hunt-for-a-restaurant-that's-still-open for my lunch. (I'm in China with no access to acceptable cooking facilities so have to buy all my food out, but it's Chinese New Year in a week so a lot of places have already closed for the holidays.)

Get well soon Breadandwine. Isn't it great that you can feed the fever without guilt .

I have a question for you, Ezzza, TiP2, Natasha, Laska and all other seasoned fasters (apologies to those I've missed): Since fasting I've found my appetite reduced on non-fast days and aside from the weekend, I'm not making my TDEE. I can see that I may be short by 5000+ calories for the week. I am not a believer in undereating and have lost 47lbs (pre-5:2) by eating at a 10-15% cut from my TDEE.

Am I worrying needlessly? Should I just eat according to appetite and not stress about undereating?

Can I just say, and I'm sorry if I'm stating the obvious, in which case please ignore my ramblings that there is little point in stressing over the additives in diet drinks if you don't concern yourself with additives in your everyday foods - processed foods are often jam packed full of them, especially the so-called healthy diet variety. Have a look at that diet yoghurt, or diet health bar - I have no idea what half the stuff is in there but I'd hazard a guess that it's not there for your health!

Some processed food is more innocent than others - in general a good rule of thumb is the longer the list of ingredients, the more additives it contains, so when I'm in a hurry, if I pick up a food look at the ingredients - see a long list, it goes straight back again - the food with the shorter list has the added bonus of being made from real food so it will taste better too!

I teach my kids to do this when they are choosing a treat - they don't need to know what the additives are, just that a long list is not a positive quality and they must choose something else.

I know on the 5 days you can eat anything, so instead of thinking of limiting yourself try to think about getting nutrients into your body - be nice to it and stay away from those horrid diet foods.

BssshBossh I'd say you are worrying unnecessarily, we go through appetite surges - you must notice that with your dcs - sometimes they eat a lot, sometimes they eat very little - they are lucky - they eat when they need to, we eat for many other reasons and so often that has little to do with hunger. Make sure what you do eat is nutritionally dense food - no diet rubbish and you'll be fine...your body will start requesting more food soon enough.

Thanks Snowkey - you are of course entirely right. I guess I have read a lot of stuff lately about particularly Diet Coke which has freaked me out! However, I too am fairly careful about what I put in my body - eat very little processed food and cook nearly everything from scratch. Since going on 5:2 I have dropped sugar completely, eaten nothing deep-fried, and am enjoying a glass of wine just once or twice a week. Not wanting super-fast weight loss, happy to let it happen as it should. Anyway, good advice for us all.

Thanks bordercollielover for the reminder of the tips for avoiding cramps. DH and I went out for a lovely meal last night and dry January was well and truly busted witha few s so I'm interested and slightly nervous to see how this will impact on the scales. I'm looking forward to my fast day on Monday now as I feel a bit bloated this morning but I don't feel guilty just relaxed!

I've been doing this wol since Xmas and have lost just about half a stone. Would like to lose about another half but I'm in it as much for the health benefits as the weight loss. I have read the op about the potential relative lack of benefits for women of normal bmi but don't quite understand why this would be the case- and if this was the case shouldn't women stop fasting when they get to their normal bmi? Maybe this is one question for the maintenance thread?

Thanks to everyone on the thread for inclusive, informative posts.

Fast day today (1st one back on the wagon), here goes!
I made some veg chilli with a tiny spoon of brown rice on Friday (been in the fridge) does everyone think it will still be ok today?

Thanks Snowkey and literarygeek. I will stop worrying. Of course hunger goes in waves - I can see it with my 4yo - some days she hardly eats a thing because she says she's not hungry but always makes up for it on other days.

northstarmum there is some suggestion that women of normal BMI don't get the same benefit from fasting as men but that's not the same thing as saying looking at everything across all markers that it's actively bad for them.

Studies suggest that it has a negative impact on insulin sensitivity amongst woman. This may be of concern to you if your family has a history of diabetes - personally I feel if your family has a history of diabetes and that's a big concern then you should knock sugar and refined carbs on the head but I don't know if this balances out in the long run. Don't even know if the limited number of studies done on men versus woman were conducted properly - so much is still unknown.

Don't think anyone knows yet whether men and woman derive different benefits from the other positive aspects of fasting like lower cancer rates, lower dementia and related illnesses rates, lower cholesterol etc.

So I think all you can do is to read up as much as you can, satisfy yourself that what you are doing is right for your body and then if you wish to take a leap of faith. There are no guarantees.

bssh I wouldn't worry too much but if I've gone way under on my tdee for the week then I eat some unsalted nuts which are not greatly filling but full of calories.

Wish you better b&w great to be able to go to bed with lots of guilt free food.

mandy I'm a bit wary of reheating rice as I once had terrible food poisoning from not doing it well enough but am sure someone will be along who may be more experienced than me.

Mandy I've never been I'll from reheated rice - I'd call that good luck given the advice below.

Is it true that cooked rice shouldn't be reheated?

A disproportionately high number of food poisoning cases are indeed caused by reheated rice. Or perhaps I should say inadequately heated. It's not actually the reheating that's the problem - it's the way the rice has been stored before reheating. Uncooked rice can contain spores of Bacillus cereus, a bacteria that can cause food poisoning. Unless the rice is cooked properly, the spores can survive, and if you then leave it standing at room temperature for any length of time, the spores can germinate into bacteria. These will then multiply and may produce toxins that cause all manner of nasty side-effects. Reheating the rice won't get rid of these toxins, so the longer cooked rice is left at room temperature, the more likely it is that bacteria, or the toxins they produce, could stop the rice being safe to eat.

Rice is best served when it has just been cooked, anyway, but if that's not possible, cool it as soon as you can (within an hour) and keep in the fridge for no more than a day. As when reheating any food, check it's steaming hot all the way through, and don't reheat more than once.

Mandy312, the rice and chilli will be fine if it was chilled quickly and kept in fridge.

I had my second fast day yesterday - tough but worth it I think. The scales showed a 2lb loss since yesterday!

My Tdee is only 1500 calories, so I'm going to track everything on MFP for a while.

I expected to be ravenous when I woke up this morning, but felt fine - leisurely shower then a big bowl of muesli with yogurt and fresh fruit.

Not sure when my next fast day will be - perhaps individual support threads for fast days would be a good idea - eg 'Monday's fast thread' - what do you think?

Signing into fred. Have tried 5:2 a few days on and off since December, and felt the benefits, but have not yet really started properly. I will start in ernest tomorrow as I've already had two large milky coffees and peanut butter toast

Thanks ladies, I will go for a run and decide...

My first weigh in today and I've lost 2 inches from my waist and 4.5lbs
I've done 4:3 as I have 5 stone to lose so a long way to go. I've found it very easy and incredibly cheap. And most importantly haven't felt deprived at all.

The most important thing for me though is not the weight loss - it's that I have lost all my sugar crash shakes - I suspect I am pre diabetic and haven't had one wibbly moment all week though I've gone 23 hours without eating one fast day - this is unheard of for me.

Subtle changes too - before I'd eat cake or crisps instead of food (leading to sugar problems) to keep calories down. Now I'm eating them very occasionally after food and they're not having the same effect.

Dh has been doing it too - for health reasons and he has lost half a pound but he really only needs to cut his body fat by 5% so I imagine it will be slower for him. He's done 5:2 and also found it easy.

Thanks Aftereightsarenolongermine nuts are a great idea!

Laurie fantastic loss, well done!

Is anyone on MFP? I'd love some more fasting friends. I'm Bssh on there if you'd like to add me. Or you could tell me your usernames. Many thanks!