5:2 Diet Thread! Perfect number 10!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

AnnaK well done! The first few fast days are very tough, it's very possible that you'll not have issues with headaches etc once you've done a few. I highly recommend keeping up with liquids and hot drinks on fast days. Dehydration can contribute to headaches.

CONGRATULATIONS Erik!!

Thanks
I love this woe. It's so simple!

I refuse to acknowledge that hot lemons have any calories in them! that would be cruelty to have take them out of my total. that said, I couldn't actually finish my tea tonight. unusual for a fast day. most unlike me to lose appetite when I'll. I usually see it as an excuse to comfort eat!

Hi BCL spelt flour is no good if you're trying to avoid wheat. Spelt is just another variety of the wheat we use in our bread - albeit one that hasn't been mucked about with for the last 10 thousand years as the common or garden stuff has. (Which is why some people with a wheat allergy can tolerate it where they can't tolerate ordinary wheat.)

Laska you can muck around with any bread recipe as a general rule - as long as you keep the flour/liquid ratio the same, and, in a soda bread, as this one is, make sure you have sufficient acid/alkali combo to rise the bread.

So you can certainly leave out the fructose - I'd just use more maple syrup and increase the dried fruit. And, of course you could use an egg and some milk. I have no qualms about veganising a recipe, so I could hardly squeal if someone did the reverse (although it could be considered a retrograde step! ).

Let us know what you do - as you say, it looks lovely! And I shall certainly browse that site when I get a moment - thanks LG.

Well, I've just had one of my easiest fasting days ever, today. It certainly helped that my target was 18.10 - and I've now reached it easily!

I've spent the last hour (this was written at 18.15, just after I'd measured out 200g of homebrew! ) assembling one of my favourite dishes - which I've reduced down to a very-low calorie meal, indeed. I'm quite chuffed with it - so I'll put it on the recipe thread.

Basically, it is a lasagne/moussaka type meal using thinly sliced potatoes to layer the dish. I've made this over the years, generally to use up left-over bolognaise sauce - and it is awesome!

I made a veg stew which added up to 260 cals (this for two meals, today and Wednesday). Then I cooked 280g of (very) thinly sliced potatoes (with skins).

Being a vegan, I was able to keep the cals down to a minimum (sorry, carnivores) by layering up the dish using - instead of a cheese sauce - nutritional yeast and Free and Easy, finishing up with some of the liquid from the veg (otherwise the top would be a little dry). I used 6 serving spoons in the dish, leaving two in the pan - so I divided the calories by four, leaving 195 cals for the veggies. The potatoes came to just 200 calories, the nooch and Free and Easy, together, came to about 25 calories.

10 minutes in the microwave on low, and it was done.

To measure it carefully, I spooned it onto side two plates - and they absolutely filled the plates! I carefully balanced 75g of broccoli on top - and that was it - job done!

The maths:
Veg stew = 195 (260 cals in total, but, I only used 3/4 of it)
Potatoes = 200
Flavourings = 25
Total 420 - for two meals, remember!

So, 210 for the lasagne. And 75g of broccoli = 24 cals - so 234 for the meal

I had 200g of stout (88 cals) before the meal
And 50g red wine (43 cals) with it

So, 234 + 88 + 43 = 365 calories all told.

But there's more. Those 235 calories, as I know from experience, burn a metaphorical hole in my pocket - best to use them up, then I can forget about food until the morn.

I said earlier, that the vegan chocolate cake I've posted on the recipe thread, was only for feed days. But, at 220 cals for 50g of cake, surely I can buck the trend and have my cake - and eat it!

The piece of cake I took out of the freezer weighed 46g - or 203 calories. It's good enough that it doesn't need icing or any such useless calories - it's pretty good on its own.

So that's what I had - a glass of stout, glass of wine, dinner and pudding! All for

Hang on a minute there niki ....hot lemons have calories??? Even if I don't eat them although I do normally ??? Even if one little slice just sits there in hot water????

Shurely shome mishtake????

Thanks ladies who replied about BFing, think I'll start with 1 day a week fasting and see how I manage.

It's gonna be a shock to my system after all the biscuits and cakes I've been scoffing since having DD2!

This has possibly been mentioned before but Marigold Buillon (?) powder got me through. A savoury drink with 12 calories...
Thanks all for the encouragement.
Particularly as my daughter pointed out a diet leaflet yeaterday saying I needed to try it!!

filllybuster - the cold remedy variety, not the nice tea substitute! in my world, neither have calories!

BandW thanks for the spelt info, I was not aware that it is a type of wheat.
What is Free and Easy?

B&W Ok Ok .. we know you are fab!

I like the sound of the ' no-moo-saka '.. but for reasons we cant go into here (even though we dont have manonboard visiting us here much these days) this girl cant eat those kind of yeast products .. so thats out ( shame because I always liked Tartex and the like but it dont like me ..but luckily bread and wine are ok!!).

But for us non vegans .. perhaps a thin layer or quark or 0% Greek yoghurt mixed with some spring onion or chives and garlic would be good instead of the faux cheese layer (sorry but as a non vegan I must ).. or just a thick layer of roasted peppers mushrooms and chilli sauce between the layers (it being me!) .. I may make it .. and see. BTW .. I'm not such a heathen carnivore you know.. , have you seen these ? You'll like this website...

Have managed to get through today & migraine has gone though joints still a little achey. Luckily my soup is fairly low calorie so was able to have a couple of bowls along with a kidney bean 'soup' also which is basically beans tinned tomatoes & stock!

Feeling far more human than this morning but decided no more weigh ins on days when joints inflamed! I do wonder whether that increases weight but really have no idea.

Oops nearly forgot well done erik that's amazing & you should be very proud of yourself.

Greeneggsandnicht (is that right?) thanks for the reply and encouragement regarding me having not lost any weight at all and am in 3rd week of 4:3. Today on my fast day had a slim-a-soup and a salad with 2 slices of ham and a sesame ryvita. One cup of black coffee. Might (just might) have a cadbury options 40 cals choc drink before bed. Ok...hope this is a better looking fast day.

What is Free and Easy? Sorry, BCL, it's a vegan cheese sauce substitute - I should have said. I use it sometimes instead of Bouillon powder - it's made of concentrated dried veg and is only 26 cals/100g! It would be very useful in anyone's cupboard - especially someone into this WOL!

Laska 'No-moo-saka*! I like the sound of it! However, there is a brand of vegan cheese called, I kid you not, 'No-Moo'! So I'd have to be a bit wary of that!

Not sure your layer of peppers or mushroom would work - they're too much like the sauce. You need some carbs for contrast, IMO - and potatoes are easily the lowest in cals. I used 4 layers of spuds in mine, but you could use only 3 - and if you cut the potato slices really thin, I'm sure you could get the cals down to 100 or less. Don't forget, that's over two meals!

Thanks for that link - I had to abandon my browse after my mouth started watering! Since I've used up all my calories for today I'll look at it tomorrow!

Where do you get your Free and Easy Band W?

Hi BCL it's in Sainsbury's - in the 'Free-from' section. It's in the same sort of (yellow) tub as Marigold bouillon powder.

For weeks I badgered my HFS shop for a new tub, thinking I'd got it there! And then I found it in Sainsbury's. You can also get vegan pesto in the same section.

I also found Alpro custard there - and not in my HFS as I'd thought.

Hi all. I have a 6 month old and am just giving up breast feeding.
I have about 3 stone to lose! Could I do it with this do you think?

Hi swifty you've come to the right place!

Have a look at the links in the OP, then just jump straight in!

Good luck - and welcome to the thread!

Well, now there is a MN academy course featuring Michael Mosley, according to the email I just had.

Link in case anyone is interested! :)

Hi all I stumbled across this diet / eating plan by accident. I lost a lot of weight almost 2 years ago when my husband left me for a lady I worked with. But over this Christmas have put on around 6/7lb. At my smallest I was 133lb it stabilized around 137lb but this morning after not weighing myself since mid December I could not believe it said 144lb. I have no desire to put back on the weight I lost so have decided to follow this to see if I can get back to around 135lb. Today was my first fast day and I have had a few waves of feeling hungry but on the whole its be OK. At around 5pm I had a large bowl of lettuce, cucumber, cherry tomato's, spring onions with a tablespoon of balsamic on it. I had with it a 175g pack of prawns followed by a piece of pineapple. I don't drink regular tea or coffee but do tend to drink a fair bit of green lemon tea, hot water with a slice of lemon and cold tap water (I also like Diet coke not had any today).

I'm 5 foot 5.

Hi guys, I hope this isn't a bit cheeky. I was wondering if, perhaps, someone who either doesn't have a question for Dr MM or their question has already been asked over on the webchat page, would mind asking him about his statement, below, to someone on twitter. (I copied and pasted it onto our thread number 9)

I'd be interested to know what he means by "fat and water is lost, then fat, then water goes back on".

I would ask myself but I've already posted my question and mumsnet say the rules are only one question per member and I'm a stickler for the rules and I'd be very grateful.

*

Hey everyone who is frustrated by the scales not showing any weight loss, just found this on DR MM's twitter page:

@DrMichaelMosley Any reason why I wouldn't lose weight even if following the diet?

@sawshark1 Initially you lose mix of fat and water. Then just fat, but water
goes back on. So you may be losing fat but not weight
6:53pm - 18 Jan 13

@DrMichaelMosley @sawshark1
That may explain why I've only lost about 4lbs since Sept! I've certainly lost inches and regained my waist.

Hi. I did two days of fasting week before last but came down with a really bad cold/chest infection. Just taking the last day of antibiotics. I weighed myself last week and had lost 4lbs which has stayed off. However, I have today had a scan for suspected gallstones which I had five years ago. At that time I was supposed to have my gallblader removed but just cut out fat and the pains went away, they came back last week and the scan today showed gallstones again. Looking into the subject - fasting can aggravate or even cause gallstones so I am devastated. I still feel inclined to do fasting this week as it is a WOL I like compared to all of the other diets I have tried. My fear of dementia is mainly what made me interested in it plus the fact that I often go all day without eating till evening. Any one else had or heard of fasting causing gallstones?