5:2 Diet Thread! Perfect number 10!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

gonepearshaped I know that if I ate bread in the morning it would lead to major hunger before lunch because it is a refined carbohydrate. What about trying something different for breakfast?

www.drbriffa.com/2007/09/03/study-links-blood-sugar-imbalance-with-increased-appetite/

From the linked essay, "The evidence suggests that those who want to put a natural brake on their appetite should emphasise low-GI foods in their diets... It also means controlling intake of many starchy carbohydrates such as bread and breakfast cereals. It is perhaps the generally high GI nature of these foods which explains why individuals often say that if they eat these foods for breakfast, they get hungrier in the morning compared to eating nothing."

I havent read all the threads, but I'm just curious - I've seen that 5:2 may help my psoriasis/psoriatic arthritis, does anyone have experience of this?

I have a healthy BMI first time in a long time, yay! so weight loss is less important.

thanks for the recipe poshvoice - it looks delicious. How long have you been practicing 5:2?

Hi stickgingerbread,

I've been 5:2 Thing since the start of this year. Didn't do the 2nd day this week as i was fighting a virus (don't call me a hero)

I've found this wol relatively easy to do, the health benefits would be great to get as well because I'm a medication for hypo pressure.

My bmi is about 28 when I started.

Not really tracking my weight, just going to judge my progress on the missus's comments.

Very scientific I'm sure you'll agree!!

gonepearshaped As well as the advice given by Dr Biffa, you might find the following useful:

Be aware that when you have your first mouthful - of whatever it is you're eating - you flick the 'hunger switch'. Your body assumes there's food around, and the appetite kicks in. Very gradually, if you don't eat again, the switch resets itself.

I'm a late night eater - for years, I've always snacked at this time at night. ATM, I have half a pizza and 4 curried potato wedges leftover from dinner. If I take the slightest morsel of any of that, I know I'll want to eat the lot - or most of it, anyway! So, I'm not going to have that first nibble.

Secondly, wait 20 minutes for second portions. It takes that long for the body to realise it?s had enough to eat.

There's loads of stuff like this on the Tips and Links thread - check it out.

Cheers, B&W

beyond & greeneggs I have psoriatic arthritis & see two consultants one at st Thomas' & one at a private hospital. Both have told me categorically that lots of their arthritic patients fast as a way of helping reduce inflammation. I have noticed a huge difference in my swollen joints since I've started doing this. I had previously cut out gluten also as I had noticed how much more swollen my joints were when I ate gluten products however the gluten free diet & fasting in combination have made a difference to my life that 6 months ago was unimaginable, I no longer need a walking stick every day & I have more energy.

More importantly since being on the 5:2 I've had my steroids reduced to 2 daily at Easter I was on 6 daily.

But I'd get yourself checked out first as I didn't start this until I'd spoken to both my rheumatologists as didn't want to do anything without their agreement. beyond if you are on MTX check what your doc says fasting for me on those days made MTX side effects so horrendous that I dropped from 4:3 to 5:2.

Really useful post on bf literarygeek should prob be on hints and Tips because I would be willing to bet we will need to quote it again in the future

B&W a 60 p pizza thank you that?s a good saving on the price of a ready made one, will be trying the baking parchment trip too snowkey. That?s another great thing about this woe we can still talk about pizza!

Well done FrenchFancy (did that work the smileys have disappeared?)

*Incadreams it prob doesn?t add up to as many calories as you think, can you fast Sunday?

Chippy I think I may have mentioned 2pm - in which case I had more or less just water from 2pm tue - 2pm wed say (so zero calories) then I had my 500 cals, then I ate normally on thu morning (7am) so about 40 hours in total. Sorry if I confused you. It seems there are added health benefits in fasting for longer than 16 hours on zero calories so I am combining 5:2 with other ideas on fasting. A few of us including Greeneggs (but also B&W and TIP off the top of my head) do this from time to time.

The sugar thing is scary it does seem to be responsible for a lot of health problems but its def a pleasure in life. Is it the corn syrup or all sugar that?s a problem? DD was making up a story today about a magical place where things were opposites and chocolate was healthy - she?s only 5 (they are not allowed chocolate at school). I need to work on healthy snacks for them during the week I think. Any nut free ideas (they are not allergic but nuts are also not allowed at school!) ?

After8s that is absolutely amazing results. My slight knee pain has def diminished and period pains?we def are not built to eat the way modern culture wants us too! OK my eating outside of fasting isn?t great but I am still seeing benefits from this.

Also I look terrible on non fast days!

Here's another one for you, Giraffe - pancakes for 1p each!

Pancake day is fast approaching - but did you know you could make an excellent pancake with just flour and water?

These will cost you approx 1p each - as against 9-10p for those using traditional ingredients - and they taste just as good:

www.nobreadisanisland.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/pancakes-using-just-flour-and-water.html

All calorie counted - and you could use gluten-free flour, Aftereights!

gonepearshaped, I second what frenchfancy said.

I too ended up stuffing my face on feed days for the first week or two, but after that my appetite seemed to readjust itself. I'm not quite sure why this is. Maybe whatever it was in my brain that was scared it was running out of food got used to the idea that there'd be plenty of food on the next fast day and stopped making me stuff myself silly.

I haven't restricted my eating at all on feed days (except for Dry January) since starting on this WOE in September, I just eat whatever I want, but I actually want to eat less on feed days now than I used to eat every day before last September.

Give it a couple of weeks, you might find you don't overcompensate on feed days after then. If you still do, then concentrating on low GI foods might be a good idea.

BTW, stuffing my face on feed days for the first two weeks didn't stop me losing 4kg in the first 4 weeks of this WOE.

Wow!

I've just been catching up on the previous 9 threads. Only up to thread 3 so far and my computer has taken to crashing on me and making me lose my place so I've just cut and pasted threads 3-8 into Word so I can put it on my Kindle. Did you know most of these threads are around 100,000 words each? Given that we're now on thread 10 and we also have a recipe thread and a tips thread that's easily a million words about a way of eating that can be summed up in one sentence!

It reminds me of a fridge magnet I have at home which an old housemate bought me. It says something along the lines of "The hardest part of going on a diet is shutting up about it". I'm glad to have this forum to talk about it with others doing the same thing and spare my friends and family having to hear me bang on about it non-stop!

Gonepearshaped I don't eat sugar and I severely limit bread because of their binge potential - both have the same effect of blood sugar levels - sky high and then rocket bottom. I tried letting go of these restrictions for a month but it was hell - feeling like I couldn't control my eating, nothing got reset except the weight on my hips. It would be worthwhile seeing if your body could reset itself, that is the ideal solution - to be able to have one biscuit and not end up eating 5 or more, I wish!
I just find it easier to say no every time than face the torture of trying to stop myself reaching for more.

Beyondthelimits Have been doing this since August - psoriasis on my elbow has improved slightly, patch has gone on my back, smaller patch on knee - no idea whether fasting has caused this as my psoriasis was induced my a uniquely temporary period of stress which has thankfully now passed - so I don't know whether it's the lack of stress or the fasting. It has had no effect on my eczema though - painting a lovely picture now of very scaly woman! I've tried so many things over the years to pin point the cause of my eczema - I've yet to find my magic cure.

Giraffe my dcs have given up on break time snack, they are only allowed fruit or veg - pile of nonsense given the rubbish they all eat at lunch time, your lucky if your school hasn't signed up to the "Healthy Schools" program

Snowkey why is encouraging your children to eat fruit and veg a pile of nonsense :? It is a start.

Frenchfancy because a healthy diet is not a one size fits all. It stops me from giving them something substantial. A piece of broccoli is hardly filling. The overweight kids are pumped with choc biscuits, crisps and fruit juice at lunch time and their parents meet them after school with trays of cakes from the bakery. While I accept that the overweight kids could do with a better diet, I'm not at all convinced that the healthy schools programme is the way to address it and given that more and more kids are becoming obese year on year the stats don't suggest it's having much of an impact either - it's like trying to hammer in a nail with a plastic hammer.
My kids are skinny and could do with eating more rather than less - diet is not a one size fits all. Mostly they eat a good breakfast but some days they are just not hungry first thing and i would like the flexibility to give them a good snack to keep them going, I'm not talking about more sugary snacks at break but what's wrong with a piece of cheese or a bit of chicken?

The Sunday Express have jumped on the 'slag off the 5:2 diet'

www.express.co.uk/posts/view/373665/Caveman-fasting-diet-may-leave-women-diabetic

Dr Collins explains: ?The average adult turns over 300grams of protein a day."

300g of protein is an enormous amount, wouldn't be too healthy for anyone - recommended amounts of protein float around the 50 - 70g mark, Dr Collins is supposed to be Chief Dietician at St George's - I hope for all our sakes that the express have misquoted her!

On the article nothing new, I fully expect some downsides to this diet....I can't quite believe that it will be all positive but the current recommendations for a healthy diet aren't working either because people can't stick to them. So comparing 5:2 with someone who can stick to the Gov's dietary recommendations is missing the point. People who are trying and failing to adhere to a healthy diet are eating far too much sugar which isn't doing much for their insulin sensitivity is it?

Can I jump on this bandwagon please ? I saw the Horizon programme when it was first on, thought "I'm doing that !" but never got off my arse to do anything about it. I'm 39 this year and realised over Christmas that I have never been happy with my body as an adult. The last time I wore a bikini I was 4 ! I need to get a handle on my eating as it's affecting so much more than my weight. I don't want to go swimming with my daughter for a start which I realise is bloody nonsense and also very selfish of me.

I'm not massively over weight but am carrying it all around my middle and clothes are very tight on me at the moment. I'm 5ft 6 and 10st 11lbs according to the scales this morning. I bought the book in Tesco on Friday and hope to have finished it later today.....This thread seems to be very, very positive and supportive so looking forward to learning more. Thanks

Welcome fourfingerkitkat. I look forward to hearing how you are getting along with this WOE.

I am thinking of doing this - a woman at work has lost a stone in a month!

How do I choose my fasting days? What's the most fulfillling things I can eat to stave off hunger pangs.

I amtrying to do more exercise. Am I better having fasting days on none exercise days?

Thanks

Hi V&B start tomorrow!

Do your research - read the OP and the Tips and Links thread - and jump straight in. You'll not regret it.

'Eat food - not too much - mainly plants'.

Exercise any day you like - makes no difference

Good luck!

Hi VictorAndBarry. The great thing about this way of eating is that it's flexible, so you can pick whichever days you want for fast days. If you choose to do the 5:2 plan then you choose any two days each week for your fast days. Most of us choose not to do two fast days in a row as it's easier to do one day at a time, but that really is up to you. You don't have to have fixed fast days either, you can fit them around your week.

There are some great suggestions on these threads for things to eat. Have a look at the recipes thread (linked in GreenEggs' OP) if you don't have the time to read through this thread. One thing to remember too is that hunger doesn't build and build, it comes in waves, so if you ride the wave you might find the hunder passes. Also, if you find it too tough to go down to 500 calories straight away you can start a bit higher and ease yourself down.

Some on this thread have found they are able to exercise ok on fast days, especially if they have been active before starting on this way of eating. Again, if you want to exercise on fast days maybe you could start off with just a little exercise and build up slowly. Others prefer to exercise on non-fast days.

THank you all. I downloaded Kate Harrison's book from Kindle and will read it now.

i am thinking wednesdays and fridays will work best for me as fast days.

I am a snacker, and portion control is awful. So, I will eat as I normaly do n the other five days, but who knows, healthy mentality might also stop me snacking.

Today I will be swimming at some pont, and then going to a class tonight, so that might balance out my big appetite!

I am 11 stone 10 and 5ft four, so realistically a size 14-16. I would like to be smaller, but much more than that, fitter with more energy.