5:2 Diet Thread! Perfect number 10!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

ezzza- thanks for reply re my confusion over when I could eat my 500. Ive still spread them out today but with the main 250 in the evening after work. I even had pudding tonight- a portion of 8 calorie jelly with blueberries in it- all for 30 calories- what a bargain!!

I think it is just great the way everyone shares what they know - thank you all!hey- imagine if the rest of the world shared their knowledge and support freely!

Betterlate, I think hunger is at least 50% psychological. If you know you are going to eat, your anticipation kicks the hunger up a few gears. If you decide you aren't eating until X o'clock then your brain is more able to ignore the hunger. I noticed this when I did Ramadan last year, I was amazed at how easy it was, and that was a total fast (no fluids) until about 8.30pm.

virginposter - I am also of that inclination, being of an academic bent, and have a healthy appetite for new information - particularly when it comes to health and nutrition. HOWEVER - I am also a mother of 3 yr old twins, and I don't intend to read 10,000 posts of these threads, plus whatever other information I can get my hands on, prior to starting - otherwise frankly I never would. So, like many others, I read what I had time to before starting and then dived in....

Aaaanyway :) I'm struggling to find the time to log things in MFP but really want to give that a go, because like many have mentioned I think it's important for me to accept the fact that my notion of "normal" eating is probably in excess of my daily needs otherwise I wouldn't be quite the lardy person I see before me.

TalkInPeace - thanks for your thoughts on exercise. Again I'm struggling to fit much in other than steaming along for a brisk walk when the weather's good enough, but maybe that's enough for now. I'll put all other thoughts to one side until I've got to grips with this a bit.

I'll take the plunge and ask another probably obvious question. Psychologically I find the prospect of 4:3 too challenging, and 5:2 just about right. Those of you who do 4:3, did you switch to it because 5:2 wasn't working or getting you sufficient results, or did you start at that and decide to keep to it?

I agree with Snowkey, that it is wrong to assume that a "low carb" diet is necessarily also "high protein". These are two very different concepts and should not be casually confused.

ladymuck Hi there,, I started on 5:2 back in August and lost weight fairly fast on it, and then it just seemed 'right' for me to slip in an extra day as it fitted in with my life.. I do Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays..

but 5:2 was working fine and i obviously dont know if i would have lost less if id stuck to it

Having said that now I'm almost my weight I want to be , I often find myself doing 4.5/2.5!.. that is I just miss one meal out on my 3rd 'fast' day , or I have a little more to eat than on the previous 2fasts , like I have today when i've had 700cals not 500 (so this week ive had 1x500 cal day and 1of around 400 then today at 700, then wil be eating until Sunday ).. I suppose i've just got more in tune with listening to what my body wants (heck that sounds naff!!)

Oh yes a couple of pages back (gingerbread* (or a name something like it, I noticed earlier today but cant find it again its been so busy here today) - left me a lovely message about being inspired by the sound of my food choices,, Thanks That was very sweet of you !

gingerbread i meant.. missed a * out!

Yes Betterlate that's exactly how I feel! On fast days, hunger is just a little nag/occasionally a bit grumbly tummy but nothing too bad. On feed days I fluctuate between not eating much or stuffing my face - and so I give in to how I feel ..... and I am losing weight.
For any newbies - the first few fast days I was practically gnawing my arm off on the bus going to work in the morning because I was starving- all because I had only had 1 weetabix!
Dr M's chat was a bit disappointing if you have read all this thread as there is no new science out or any answers to be had (eg one meal or spread out etc). Dr M is not a scientific researcher and is now a journalist so he is just hypothesising like we are too.
PS i am a longtime lurker and name-changer as well; have been 5:2 since beg. Of September.
Don't be hard on TiP - she gives great advice, information and encouragement

I was interested at the mention of the 'old' 5:2ers not posting, meaning that they're potentially not still following this WoE anymore. I've been doing this since August too and read the boards religiously without posting often. I'm one of those who don't seem to lose much weight but that's more to do with not having much to lose after Dukan-ing for a fair old while and already losing the 2 stone I needed to.

This is very much a way of life for me and I do envisage it being for life. In every sense of the word. I could still do with losing half a stone but I eat much better - and realistically - than I did before 5:2. Endlessly dieting and feeling guilty is no way to live. The health benefits are fab. But it's just so easy to do.

I really would recommend it to all the newcomers - it takes a little while to get into the fasting groove but it is so worth it. Go on. Do it. You'll feel great.

Guys, can you actually binge on your non-fasting days? Or do you have to eat sensibly then?

You should eat sensibly. No bingeing! This is a healthy WOE, not a guide to an eating disorder.

Trust me, after a few weeks of regular fast days, you'll find your ability to overeat on eating days will be diminished. The very few times I have (Christmas dinner, for example) I really, really regretted it. My stomach actually hurt. And I hadn't even eaten close to what I'd normally eat for a holiday meal.

MiuMiu1 posted this by mistake on the T&L thread:

Hi I have been reading the IF posts and they are really helpful. Have only just started (couple of weeks now) and I have to say I find it really hard. Was kind of hoping to find anyone who'd found it hard to say it gets easier!! But mainly it seems people don't notice they're hungry or feel better for it.... I'm doing all the miso soup stuff and drinking lots of water but I'm basically starving the entire day. Which is fine as I know no pain no gain but I haven't noticed any difference yet and on fast days I'm depressed and lethargic. Just want to know there is a point to sticking with it! Any thoughts vv welcome!

So I responded:
"Hi MiuMiu I really feel for you and your predicament!

I've always said that I'm one of the lucky ones when it comes to fasting, in that I've yet to feel hungry, even after 24 hours.

Don't know how I would have fared if I was hungry all day!

One difference between your fasting and my beginning is that I began last Feb, when not a lot was known about the 5:2 WOL (Way Of Living ), so I was very tentative in my approach. I began by just halving my calories on two days per week, as a quarter seemed a bit extreme - so, I was eating approx 1200 calories. I still lost weight on this regime, both because I was eating less calories and it gave me an insight into how much we should eat each day. For instance, both my wife and myself started using side plates instead of dinner plates.

I did this until the Horizon programme was broadcast in August, and, when I saw that all the research I'd been doing was vindicated by Dr Mosley, I went on to the 5:2 fully, going down to

erik and Iwb, nice to know I'm not the only one! Also nice to know you are still loosing weight. TBH, I was pretty hard on myself to start with, after seemingly having the 'hardest' part licked quickly (the fast) but the 'easiest' (ie the normal eating days) was causing me the most concern, but I really think that I needed to come to terms with my normal eating habits anyway, and fasting has helped me do it...albeit part of a 'system'. My issues are and always will be portion size, snacking and psychological hunger. The success in this lies (for me) with the fast days helping with all of these issues over time.

Just to say, if you do overdo it one evening, you can always throw in a 'mini-fast' the next day. By this I mean simply skip breakfast and lunch, reasoning that you'd had these, or the equivalent, the night before!

Ive been here since thread one and I'm still following this WOE after 5 1/2 months and 21lbs off.. This WOE looks like a long term -hopefully for life - 'sticker' for me.. I mean why change it now?.. i'm pretty much at the weight I want to be ( ok perhaps another half a stone would be super great but that only puts me bang slap into lowish-mid range of my now healthy BMI),,..

AND I can eat what I like most of the time.. and NO thats not bingeing nor eating super unhealthy..

But if I want cheese and and roast potatoes (and I do!!) .. ill have them now (on food days of course!) knowing I can have two or three days fast and not have that depressing scale moments..

.... and even more I actually like my fasting days..its not about hunger, but the great feeling of freshness and clarity you get after a while (the only way I can describe it)

Why stop now?

sorry I forgot to mention I was answering the Do the people who have been here some time still follow this WOE now they have lost weight and might be maintaining ?' question..

I think you'll find the answer is a resounding YES.. because its so much more than a weight loss diet.. Several of us have got quite evangelical about 5:2 as a Way of Life now.. Hallelujah!!

I wanted to ask a question to all the long time contributors of this thread, like laska, bandw, greeneggs etc, I've been very inspired by your successes and even more by the amount of time you give in encouraging others with your motivation and information. Can you tell me, were any of you 'all or nothing' people at the beginning? And if so how did you adapt? What I mean by that was were you the type of people who couldn't have just one biscuit, but would finish off the pack, or would punish yourself if you'd gone over your cals and think, 'sod it, I'll start tomorrow' or would be happy to not eat for one day reasoning that you could eat as much as you liked the next ;). I'm good at fasting, I'm also good at stuffing my face and placing no limits on my greed. Did the second reduce over time for you because of the fasting or did you consciously have to think about those days as well?
Thanks and keep up the good work....with us as well as yourselves!

Evening all... have gone back to trying to keep up lurking over the past week - still getting lots of encouragement + inspiration from these threads! Had my 6th fast day today, easiest one yet: kept really busy + managed to survive after-school snack time and circulation of Club bars, bananas and cheese + biscuits without even being tempted. Well, not much. Am stuffed now after dinner of roasted veg + feta (initially inspired by roast cauli/lemon/cumin recipe - Laska's I think? thanks for that!). I find the feed day between my two fast days the hardest, in a way, as I am thinking 'I couldn't have that yesterday' and 'I won't be able to have that tomorrow' so am having to fight the impulse to mainline carbs (had 2 x toasted muffins dripping in butter and honey in quick succession yesterday ; can't even bring myself to put those into MFP!).
After that ramble, I do have a question - I noticed on the MM webchat a poster commented on having less bloating/PMT, and I hadn't thought about it until I read that but I had a similar experience this month - earlier, lighter, no irrational weepiness beforehand, no cramps to speak of - was barely noticeable. I also wonder whether this is a documented side-effect or whether anyone else has found this (or whether it was just a coincidence!)?

BTW B&W I totally agree..

Lets say ive eaten too much this evening,..
So what would a naturally slim person do?
They'd wake up in the morning and think , 'breakfast?' No I'm not hungry , ill wait until later .'.
Maybe they wouldn't be hungry until much later dinner time even. Then they would eat a good meal... and forget about food until they were hungry gain

That what I never used to do .. and that's what I now endeavour to do . And its getting so much easier , I'm thinking it might eventually become a habit ..

Here's a true story ..

Last year a friend of my parents who had Alzheimer's lost his wife , and I saw him again at her funeral , having not talked to him for a while... He was reasonably lucid that day and at the 'do 'after the funeral , I asked him if he would come with me to the table and choose some food.. .. 'But I'm not empty' he said..so he didn't eat.

This was before id started doing this WOE and id been struggling with my weight for some years..

But what that dear man said really struck me..he'd lost so much of his lucidity , but was totally in touch with his hunger, but not with the fact that you could eat anyway when you weren't hungry , and treats just didn't interest him any more, (although he always did enjoy his food before he got ill.) And since i've been doing this I've thought of him often ..

Sadly he has since died .. but that small thing he said wont leave me.. I think that small sentence changed me as much as finding this WOE.. Why eat if you are not hungry?

(not preaching, just telling you a true story)

Betterlatethan, you are pretty much describing my pre IF eating behaviour. If I began my day with, for example, a supposedly " healthy" porridge then within 2 hours I would be frantic for biscuits, bread, more porridge. If i didnt get it then i felt faint and weak. And so it went on through the day. Generally I had brief gaps between eating and, once opened, no packet of sweets, cakes or biscuits was safe; I just had to finish it. Train journeys were a particular excuse to visit all the croissant stalls etc.
Revelation number 1 came via Davies, Briffa and Ruhr and lead me to cut out all grains.that helped the manic eating but not the weight. Revelation 2 was The Programme last August. I have been doing 4:3 ever since and now can safely eat any grains or sweets on an eating day with no compulsion to eat more.it all sorted itself out without conscious control on my part.
I also know that this scenario is not true for everyone: I have a very thin colleague who eats porridge at 7 am and is not hungry again until 1 pm.

Hello, am new on this thread, though not to MN. DH and I have started the 5:2 this week and I've just ordered the book and read through the MM webchat. Does anyone know if there is any evidence that this WoE helps with mild depression and anxiety (which I am pretty sure is related to hormone levels and fluctuating blood sugar - am in my 50s)? Have skimmed some of the threads, but not all, so apologies if this has already been answered - I noticed someone asked it on the webchat too and it was unanswered.

betterlatethan . hey cross posted but my last one was kind of answering your question anyway!

I was never a 'binger' as in empty out the cupboard , but a serial overeater.I never knew what hunger was, Id eat because it was meal time on the clock .. and if there was wine involved id often just carry on picking little bits ..

A cheeky half bottle of red opened in an evening because I fancied a drink with my dinner when i got home soon lead to a cheese and biscuit snack after ..Or a large packet of tortilla chips would never be put back half eaten.. AND id ALWAYS eat a whole large pizza .. in fact id but us all one each on a pizza night.. We dont do that any more ..Actually i've not had a pizza since starting this WOE but id buy 2 for the 4 of us(grown up kids) if we were all here eating together and that would be probably more than enough .. ..