5:2 Diet Thread! Perfect number 10!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Encyclogirl my experience is when I ate a standard diet and I went running before breakfast in the morning I used to hit a wall half way through my run - literally couldn't run I as so hungry, ravenous in fact. After I'd adjusted to low carbing I was able to run before breakfast without a problem as my body wasn't relying on glycogen for energy - I was fat adapted. I run three times a week and do an intensive exercise session in the park twice a week. If I wake up hungry and it's not a fast day I eat, if I'm not hungry, I wait till afterwards but my performance isn't affected.

I would build up your exercise slowly, allow your body and mind to adapt to the new energy source, the body becomes more able to convert fat to energy over time - my experience anyway. And don't do much more than a brisk walk if you are experiencing carb flu.

Meant to say thecyclist that the term low carb is not a specific one and it encompasses a wide range if approaches to eating - some are more extreme than others, most recommend a higher percentage of carbs in your diet for weight maintenance, so it changes depending which stage of weight loss you are at - mostly it is very low carb for the first 2 weeks in an attempt to get your body off it's dependency on bloody sugar highs. There are some extreme diets out there and it's frustrating that the differences are not understood and they all get lumped under the same umbrella - usually along with the term Atkins in his extreme induction phase. Briffa is an advocate of low carbing but he doesn't attract anywhere near the negative press that others do.

Frenchfancy I agree there are many reasons why people on the first thread no longer post - I was on the first thread but I'm a name changer! I was just making a point that no one way works for everyone and for some the thought of fasting has them gasping in horror, we have to figure out a diet that works for us, what everyone else does is up to them.

Been lurking around these threads for a while and have been 5:2 dieting since September. It works for me as I don't have to think too hard about what I eat (I don't put much effort into counting my 600 calories, either, and just have one "light" meal in the evening on a fast day).
I haven't checked any of the threads but for those of you looking for light recipe ideas, my daughter bought me the "Hairy Dieters" recipe book recently and it's got a good selection of surprisingly low calory recipes that even non-dieting members of the family will enjoy (try the chicken and Chorizo bake - really tasty)

Hi. I've started this too. Apologies if its already been mentioned a thousand times already, but how many calories should I be eating the other 5 days? Or is the whole point I don't calorie count on those days? Thanks!

I'm sorry to sound a grump but
PLEASE
Read the opening post.
It has the numbers you need, the links you need and the basics to get started.
BEFORE asking the same questions again and again and again and again

All those saying "I'm still thinking" are just procrastinating.
Shut the fridge and the cupboards.
READ what GreenEggs says in the opening posts, and start skipping meals.

Thanks for that GreenEggs. It slightly goes against what I believe from low-carbing to think that weight loss is entirely linear with calorie consumption and can have a lot to do with the type of calories consumed (ie. studies showing greater weight loss from those eating equal numbers of low-carb calories than a carb-heavy diet). I'm just going to jump in and see what happens - will aim for minimal tinkering/over-thinking to start with and see how I go.

chasingtail - ha, yes, totally with you on the lack of alcohol in Dukan! There's only so long I can pretend to be happy being tee-total even though I didn't manage it even during Dukan

TalkinPeace, thanks for the welcome! It doesn't say in the opening post what a WOE is, I also can't decipher if I should use the bmr or the Tdee. I have only had time to read back a couple of pages and as I said in my post I was hoping to start today so a brief heads up covering what I cant see in the op was all I asked for. I see the link for the book in the opening post now though so thanks for that.

Can I just say it also says in the op that you don't bite and to join in, for some people it sometimes takes a lot of courage to join a weight support thread as they may have had eating disorders or been struggling with their weight for a long time so perhaps whilst you may be exasperated with people asking the same thing over and over again it might be a little nicer if you at least appeared friendlier to newbies?

Afternoon all.
I've been so busy this morning I've only just had time to catch up on this thread. I usually try to keep up every few hours as things move so very fast on here now and boy o boy are they galloping on! So I'm a bit late joining in on the BMI discussion earlier but here goes anyway.
I have thought for many years now that the BMi tables need to be taken with a pinch of salt and not as if written in stone. I am 58 years female and now weigh 10 st 8, height 5'5" and am only just classed as very top end of normal weight by .3 (despite looking very slim now and with my size 12's hanging off me).
But it my husband who proves the point.
He is 66 years and very fit as his job is carpentry and his hobbly weight lifting in the gym in our garage. He is 5'6" tall and his body fat is 16 percent and he has a waist size 32" and is classed on the BMI calculator as being overweight!
For over 30 years he has been a bodybuilder (he started because he was only 9 stone in his late 20's) and used to compete (even winning the Mr Great Britain title) and in those days he weighed just over 12 stone and his body fat was 12 percent. He was then classed as obese. Whenever he filled in medical forms it looked like he was fat and his doctors were always confused because he didn't fit into 'the category'.
This just goes to show that we really really do need another way to find out just how healthy we all are.

Snowkey I have been doing 5:2 since 22nd August and posting on these threads since the second one. I changed my name once (was 2012fan), and although I read the thread most days I don't post much now because this way of eating is now the way I live. So NO, definitely NOT unsustainable! I've lost over a stone and feel fantastic.

PS Hear hear TalkinPeace2!!

Talkin, I did read the links and I have bought the book but as its coming from the UK, it won't be here until Feb. I'm still confused as to whether I'm supposed to be generally calorie counting all the time, as in having less than my TDDE on non fasting days or not. The calculator in th OP gave me 2770 but my calorie tracker app only gives me 1700, which is quite a difference.

rosieposie As per the OP, "TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day". (so TDEE not BMR is your answer.)

If you take the time to read back through, all the threads are amazingly friendly IMO. TIP2 did pre-empt the grumpiness! (perhaps it's a cold fast day?!)

Snowkey that is really interesting to hear. I am trying to figure out my best plan. I've read Britta and he's fab. I think I will be following similiar principles to his on my feed days. I also may just need to get off my arse and run. Any excuse, any excuse...but from what I've read so far this WOE and regular exercise as a combo is a real winner :)

I really loved my fast day yesterday. I might do another one tomorrow so as to have 2 this week.

I quite fancy making the butternut squash and lentil curry. That sounds amazing.

Love this thread, love it!

rosieposey But agreed to Way of Eating (WOE) or Way of Life (WOL). Perhaps this could be included in the OP of the next thread? (Won't be long now...)

rosie we are generally friendly, but the question on how much to eat on feed days comes up over and over and over again.

I think some people have been on so many diets over the years that they need to know all the rules, know how to count the points, know what is permitted at what is banned. The thing with this WOE (Way of eating NOT diet) is that there is only one simple rule, for 2 days a week you eat 500 cals. That is it. There is no complication. All this talk about what time can I eat and how much can I eat and what can I eat is just complication.

The TDEE is only really relevant for people who have been constantly putting on weight, because those are the people who do not know what normal eating is. If you have been the same weight for a while, or only put on weight for Xmas and holidays then you don't need to worry about it. Stick to the simple rule.

McGloom thank you :) I'm glad I know the difference between Tdee and bmr now - its sort of clear in the op but also us newbies just like to make sure iyswim?

Still not sure about agreed way of eating, I guess this means long term right? I shall read back as I said over the last few threads as I am sure there are some great tips and I would love to join your thread as I am so set on losing the weight this year, I've been like this for 22 years with a bit if yo yoing inBetween and this sounds like a great diet - you all seem to be doing so well!

Anyway, hello to fellow newbie thecatinthehairnet :) yes I think you can go up to your Tdee in that calculator but have a look back over the last few threads too if you get time, that's what I'm going to do.

Tbh I am counting the hours till dinner (6pm) - I have a nice ready meal to eat and some soup and I'm just hoping I don't get too too hungry tonight!

Snowkeynice to see some good advice on exercise rather than the many posts saying how exercise isn't a problem when IFing. Lucky you too for reaching the "fat adapted" state.

Exercise
www.nutritionsociety.org/sites/www.nutritionsociety.org/files/20121101_BJN%20Press%20Rlease_Exercise%20on%20empty%20stomach%20Gill.pdf

The main thing is to keep doing what you were doing before you started fasting.
No more, no less.
Get used to fasting and the routines.
If you are overweight, then start adding in exercise.
Stopping using the lift, walking up escalators, taking phone calls standing up, getting off the bus a stop early add up to extra work for your muscles and cost nothing.
Structured exercise - running, swimming, cycling, classes are all great
but the very best is a walk in the sunshine. Just a tad faster than you are used to - so you are too puffed to talk as you walk.
If (like me) you are not overweight, mix up your activities so as to test the system a bit. It works. I started in September and am now at maintenance weight.

If only 5:2 would make the pain of Raynauds go away.

French fancy I see what your saying about so many people having been on diets that there is confusion and it's easy to mix up with other 'diets' whereas this isn't. The tdee is probably going to be useful for me as I didn't get to 16 stone by eating 'normal amounts' I was lucky in my last pg as I only put on a stone of actual fat but it's still too much in top of what I already weighed. So I will try and calorie count on feed days too so I don't go too mad.

Well it's half three or so now and I'm hoping that the fast days get easier or I might have a bit of a grumpy meltdown by 5 o clock myself lol -it's quite hard in the late afternoon isn't it?

Late afternoon is definitely the worst time. I find I start a sort of count down, only 2 hours until dinner. If I've already not eaten for 22 hours then another 2 has got to be easy right!?

Aghhhhhhhhhh! I've found the fasting days pretty easy but am struggling with the feed days. Am fighting the urge to go on a toast and jam binge right now :(

tomorrowweeat
Put it into My Fitness Pal - see how many calories .... jam spread thickly. That'll put you off! Anyway its not a meal time and the first tip for success at this Way of Eating is no snacking

Well done phlebas.

I have three exact same problem tomorrowweeat but the author of the 4 hour body actually recommends ending a fast with toast and jam because there is no protein so it effectively continues the fast so maybe its ok!

OP here! I'll try to include acronyms in the next OP.

I'd like to explain something, though. I didn't want to add a FAQ type thing to the OP because I don't think it does a service. So many of us are doing this in different ways, and having questions "answered" in the OP will make it sound as if that is the way things must be done. The only thing most of us have in common is that for at least one day a week, we consume approximately 500 calories. I, for one, did 4:3 for several months, and have now started 5:2 but with one of my eating days as a semi-fast day.

On the other, non-fast days (I do not use the term "feast" day because they gives the wrong impression, I think) many of us suggest eating your TDEE, as opposed to eat what you want. We do this because many of us have become overweight by eating what we want whereas when someone slim like MM does this WOE, his version of eating what he wants probably is a bit less and healthier than someone who has poor eating habits might have chosen. TDEE isn't chapter and verse, but it WILL give you an idea of what normal portions look like, and it will show you (if you're honest and log everything) just how quickly calories add up over a day.

So, rosie, I hope you don't feel picked on! It's just that with the New Years rush, and Michael Mosley's press blitz, we've been inundated with questions... except that they're almost always the same questions. :) I've typed this post now, and I would bet money that by the next page, someone will come in and say "hi, I don't have time to read the OP and/or this thread, but could you just tell me how much I should eat on a fast day?" or something similar.

Which is fine, but really if you're considering this WOE, please just read any of the links in the OP. It's very simple. We like it because it is simple.

In fact, as I've said in a post just very recently, I would say concentrate on getting through those first few fast days first. Once you've got that sorted, then get in there with what works for you on eating days. Some people don't need to pay attention to TDEE on eating days. (But the question is, do those people already have good eating habits? Or are they incredibly active? etc) I don't count TDEE on eating days, but I can say the weight loss is better for me when I make sure I'm eating healthily. That doesn't mean no treats. It just means, if I know I'm going to have a nice roast dinner one day, then I'm only going to have a small sandwich or something earlier in the day. etc.

TY Talkin. Getting out of the kitchen and coming on here to be reinspired helped me fight off the urge to stuff my face. I think I need to decide on a more structured eating plan for my feeding days until I get better control of my eating.

And we really, really like seeing all of the new people posting in the threads. Several of you have jumped in and are answering questions and it's really lovely to see. I love this WOE and I am really glad we're all here to support each other.

If you would like a brief overview of 5:2, please check out this article from the OP. If you're pressed for time, just scroll to the bottom. There are bullet points on "what to eat fast days, what to eat eating days" etc.

Referring to Snowkey's post about the people in thread 1, I started this woe in August too and am still going strong but I didn't post until much much later as I was very nervous about doing so. I expect there are still a lot of 'lurkers' who started then but who don't post plus the others who have name changed.

May I suggest to all 'newbies' (in the politest way) that they don't just read the OP's, tips etc etc but that they try to read ALL the threads starting with thread 1. Because all us 'oldies' had the same questions and concerns as they do now. We also had our ups and downs (as the weeks and months went by) as they do now and needed each others support. I know that there are 10 threads and they are very long but it is well worth it as the advice and knowledge in there is hard to convey in just a few posts.