5:2 Diet Thread! Number 8, fast away fast away fast away all!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. Here is a link to the programme's page on iPlayer, which features a couple of clips, and might have updates eventually. Let us know if you find another site hosting it.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Had a good bit of bedtime reading. I'm in!

Hi b&w didn't quite get what that quote was getting at? Surely we aren't spoiling appetite, but stretching it? I'm probably being a bit dense!

Also, one slightly worrying thing with this WOE (which I'm sure is just me)' but before I used to be obsessed with getting my 5 a day, but I realise now eating so much fruit & veg was making me quite bloated. So now I don't think I'm getting 5 a day, more like 2 today (no fast) yesterday was 3 or 4, maybe 1 on a fast day.

I actually feel ok, but am I depriving my body of nutrients?

starlady I know people can be divided on the subject, but I take a multivitamin daily. I also have a separate calcium + vitamin D pill which I take regularly. Considering how little dairy most of us eat on fast days, I think it's even more important than usual to take it.

Just my opinion, though!

I think most of us also tend to pile our plates high with low calorie high nutrient veggies on fast days don't we?

Hi starlady

The point is that we're all trying to eat less on this WOL - if you do have a bit of dried fruit, say, before a meal, and it does spoil your appetite a bit, you'll eat less of the meal.

Bit convoluted, sorry!

About fruit and veg - I'm a vegan, so that's all I eat. All the advice about this WOL is along the lines of "Eat less, mainly plants"! You do need to keep up your nutrients.

Probably someone will come along with some advice.

Have you checked out the Recipe thread that accompanies this one?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/big_slim_whatever_weight_loss_club/a1567814-5-2-Fast-day-recipe-ideas

Fraid not ATB, I don't eat veg much as a general rule although obv a couple of portions with dinner. I probably eat the same amount of veg on fast or non fast days tbh.

Starlady I think veg is better for you in terms of teeth health, nutrients, insulin etc so no harm in cutting fruit out and experimenting with which veg you can eat that doesn't leave you feeling bloated? Thinking about it I am the reverse and have been craving clementines on fast days, prob for the sugar rush!

Just popping in after lurking for a bit. Been doing a Monday and Thursday fast for three weeks. I have no scale, but clothes seem less tight. I a doing this as more traditional diets have not worked for me. I am currently not able to exercise do to injury. I love reading the supportive comments on here..Good Luck To Us!

Second day of fast, so much easier, no drop in energy levels and haven't suffered from feeling hungry at all today.

starting out is there any reason that i shouldn't do 4:3 compared to 5:2? i have found it so far relatively easy

I eat plenty of veg on fast days but I'm not sure it's a common theme - after all it was suggested in the Horizon didn't matter so much - that might be ok in the short term but long term the nutritional make up of the food you eat will matter especially as you are eating less.

I watched the weight loss ward last night too - it was very moving, puts things in perspective and the chocolate I was planning to have to sooth my sore throat suddenly lost its appeal. Was so nice to see the Taxi Driver take the opportunity to live life to the max.

Is weight loss surgery - stomach stapling, more risky than other types of surgery or is it solely the BMI of the patients that makes it risky.

Well yesterday was meant to be a fast day but was invited out for lunch so I went had a yum lunch & then tomato soup for dinner. More importantly no picking! Total calories yesterday was 1300 so not too bad. Doing the same today so will just be happy maintain this week. Have big family party on Saturday (&lots of eating) & dinner out again on Sunday. Just need to get to January without too much damage & worry later.

Hi everyone please can i join you???

I just weighed myself to day and got the shock of my life! I knew i was getting big, but i didn't realise i was this big

On a fast day, how do ration out your calories? Do you just have one meal, or do you have lots of low cal things through the day?

Thanyou

People.... on a fast day you simply must try Marks and Spencer's Super Green Soup .. .its fantastic and 220 cals for a 600g pot !..ill put this on the recipe thread even though its not one!

Fasting again today .. but is there no end to my vanity now ive lost so much weight?

I've just had my first ever facial ,(in 55 yrs of wearing no make up or hardly ever using beauty products at all) a massage and my eyebrows and lashes tinted ! A special chritsmas offer price at my hairdressers . It was rather nice. shame I cant afford that too often ..

I feel a very glam grandma today!!

Hi BecBro - if you find it easy then 4:3 will give you quicker results - I just fit fast days in when I can now and don't really count them (but I don't do 2 in a row)

puds11 welcome too - do what works for you. I started out with low cal thoughout the day, and do that sometimes if I have a fast day and am at home - but if I am at work or out and about I find it much easier to eat nothing until the evening (might have a cup or two of miso soup). So my fast days are a mixture of both methods and I have lost 22lb.

Don't go overboard on non fast days but you really can have treats - I have had lots of meals out with cheesecake, christmas cake, stollen, panattone etc over these last few weeks but I have not put weight back on - of course weight loss has stopped but I am trying to just keep stable over the xmas period and then back to it in the New Year.

I'm jealous laska! a facial sounds brilliant right now - just on lunch break

puds11 most people here seem to do their 500 in one emal.. having said that ive virtually always had two meals and ive lost 20lbs now since August .

We are all experimenting , but so far we think its important to get in 16hr period without eating at all , as that seems to work best for the other anticipated long term health benefits.

Youv'e joined us at good time. Take a look at the links above and youll find lots of info weve garnered so far and Dr Mosleys book ' The Fast Diet' in which he promses a through explanation of the science behind this WOE is due out in January ..

The great thing is that this ISNT a diet you can 'fail 'at but a totaly doable ongoing lifestyle option.. if you cant fast one day for any reason, then thers always the next day .. I love it!!

BTW puds arent naughty on this WOE , if you fast 2 days a week you can have them on food days!! this year fo rthe first time in years il be making mince pies AND actually eating some!!

Im at work too Cats i had my 'Lunch' at 10.30 so i could go get it done!! (so really shouldnt be i on the net right now ! )
wow that Souper green soup was good... this could be a new fast day find..
though i usualy make my own soups ..

oops posted too soon - yes, as I had 4 slices of toast and marmite for breakfast I can wait a while for any other actual food - my new found awareness of real hunger vs 'mouth hunger' means a nice milky coffee is just fine ATM. (the toast and marmite was lovely - real butter too )

I think a nice big batch of lentil curry would go down a treat today - feeding the dcs (who are all around for xmas) as well as myself. My usual trick of making huge vats of food and freezing portions for when I get in from work is just not happening - I turn my back and the pan is empty!

Last night was home made curry (Delia's frugal spiced chicken pilau) and beer (Lidl belgian - nom)
Tonight will be chilli prawns and steamed veg

for those feeling low on fruit and veg - on your eating days, swap puds for several pieces of fruit - grapes, apple, satsuma, dried apricots, figs, dates
then hitting the four or five is not hard

come summer when we can live on salads it gets even easier

I eat a lot of soups on fast days (hence my nickname!) as I find them convenient to take to work with me. l Usually have shop bought ones as cooking isn't my strong point and the calorie count is right there On the pot! The Glorious Skinny range is quite good. Thanks for the tip about the Souper Green Soup from M&S, Laska .

Eating soup also keeps your veg intake up if you choose veg soup!

Also, I must say how much energy I am finding I have on a fast day. I was zipping round work yesterday and smiling at everyone - Completely bizarre, because if you knew me IRL you would know what a grump I usually am if I am busy!!

Back on track lunch cancelled today so having a fast day. Yay. Or am I just sad that I'm more excited about fasting than I was about going out for lunch?!

No not sad at all! I love my fast days. Going for my first attempt at two fasts consecutively today. Will let you know how it goes.

Or is it that an unexpected fast day gives you the freedom to have an unexpected extra food day over Christmas!

Doing paperwork and organising today. Not even going to the gym. Just a steady supply of tea till supper.

Agree about soups being an excellent way to get veg portions - a whole tub of Covent Garden posh veg soup is all of 350 calories and three of your five a day.

Thank you so much

Souper i love soup and its about the only thing i can make so that will work well for me! I also bought a small flask recently so i will be able to take soup with me wherever i go

Snowkey some surgeries are riskier than others. The BMI is ofc a factor because all all of the (let's be blunt) fat in the way. If something goes wrong elsewhere (which often does) it can be very difficult physically for the doctor to find. And that is on top of the usual difficulty of getting the doctor to listen that something is wrong in the first place.

However, there is a specific problem with some of these surgeries, in that some of them remove or cut off sections of intestine. (I'm not sure they even still do these, but what I'm about to describe might apply to other bypass surgeries so I'll go ahead and say it) Our intestines are very long, and one of the reasons they are is so that our bodies can absorb the nutrients from the food as it passes along them. If this process is disrupted by bypassing sections, or removing, then the body isn't getting the nutrients it needs. This can happen even when the patient is taking the required vitamins which they are told to take to attempt to combat this.

I know we think in vague terms of what those nutrients are and what they do for us, but the consequences of not getting them can be very serious. I "know" someone online (a man in a cooking forum I frequented many years ago did a thread devoted to his wife's surgery and the meals they cooked) who went from happily losing loads of weight due to the surgery to passing out on the floor because one day, her legs couldn't hold herself up anymore. I don't recall the details but she was essentially disabled the last time I read an update. They did some research and her reaction was not as uncommon as the figures had led them to believe initially. This reaction was a couple of years down the line, I believe.

I should repeat, I believe her type of surgery is no longer done.

I believe "leaks" internally are also an issue.

I know many people on MN have had the current incarnation of the bypass surgery and are very happy with it. I am happy they are happy. I don't want to argue with people who have made the decision to do it. I just know that, for myself, I am not at a point where I would want to accept the risks which can arise. Others are. It's a very personal, serious decision to make.

AND I'm very sorry for having waffled on so long in our dear fasting thread. :)

"all all of the " er. That was meant to be "because of all of the". sigh.