5:2 Diet Thread! Number 8, fast away fast away fast away all!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. Here is a link to the programme's page on iPlayer, which features a couple of clips, and might have updates eventually. Let us know if you find another site hosting it.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Hi there ladies.

I really want to give this a go. Could someone give me some examples of what they eat on their fasting days please? I currently do two quite full on circuit type aerobic classes a week so am thinking I probably won't fast on those ones (well to start with anyway!).

I'm going to fit in some extra walking/jogging too but it's the food I really need to get a handle on.

All hints and tips gladly welcomed - you all seem to be doing so well!!!

Been planning on doing this for ages.....and decided last night today is the day. I don't nfeel totally prepared but think I can muddle through the day. Will be doing a lot more planning over the weekend and then fasting again on Monday, Weds and Fri. Have yet to weigh myself but am thinking from previous weigh and BMI I am about 34 (which is shocking)...will be doing a weigh in and measure tomorrow. How often do you guys weigh yourself? I was thinking once a week but don't know if better to do fortnightly?

Anyway, hi! I willo no doubt be fairly active on here and posting recipies etc as I think the inspiriation and tips on meal plans will be really useful. x

Hi

I've been doing this now since september, and I'm writing up my fast day menus and recipes as well as blogging some tips that have made things easier for me.

Here's where you can find some of my 5-2 diet tips
and my recipes should all appear in the 5-2 diet recipe section of the blog. The recipes are mostly very simple, soups and easy 'main' dishes. By all means message me if you want any more information!

Welcome Merlin , for me loads of green low calorie veg like fine beans, cabbage, broccoli makes a good filler as a side dish with a main of tuna or white fish or lean meat and gravey. Soup is also great and there's a link to a thread with loads of examples of home made dishes at the top of the page. HOWEVER when you eat can turn out to be just as important as what you eat...as you'll soon discover . Welcome and good luck

One thing! So.....what I originally liked about this approach is that you don't have to think too much, count calories etc on non fast days. However from reading here it seems that you? TDEE - do I really need to worry about this too much? I don't want to obsess over this, just do the fast days and live my life! Haviong to calculate non fast days is a bit off putting. Can I just get on with it normally?

Thanks for the links and info - lots to read and digest (scuse the pun!).

Can I just ask something - so if I choose a Monday as a fast day, my last meal should be Sunday evening? Then no snacks after that either?!!! Then eat normally again from Tuesday morning?

Welcome mammamoomin2 , something like weighing comes down a lot to what motivates and demotivates an individual. My advice would be to get some graph paper and do to indices, one along the bottom to record each day and another along the side in pounds or kilos to record your weightloss. Recording it daily or twice a day will help show you the marked downward progress you'll be making (but be prepared for blips) but as I said it's all down to what suits your individual mental make up. If you choose not to do the daily route, monthly will give you a much more accurate measure than weekly. Good luck

Survived my 2nd fast day yesterday without too much trouble. Vegetable soup is my new best friend :) Hope all the other 2013 Newbies are doing OK too and once again many thanks to the experienced fasters, your tips and encouragement have really helped.

Hi mamamoomin and welcome. I agree that the thread is really helpful for info and support.
I weigh every morning before my shower as I'm a but of a scale junky and find it interesting to know how fast days affect my weight. I use myfitnesspal to record the fluctuations. However I only use my Monday weigh in to compare week on week how I'm doing. This makes sense to me but may be slightly odd!! I think everyone does different things, just as it suits them - there doesn't seem to be a 'right' or 'wrong' thing to do, so find out what works best for you.
Good luck with your fast today; I find if I've planned my food for fast days I manage much better. It might be worth spending a few minutes planning rather than muddling through and loosing heart

If you exercise and do 4:3 you can eat exactly what you want (in my experience). If you do 5:2 and don't exercise then stay around your TDEE on eating days and you'll still lose weight. But after a fasting day you don't tend to feel too hungry the next day anyway (to start with at least ) see what works best for your body......and enjoy this way of eating, it's great

Thanks!! Will be doing some planning for today now. Am feeling confident. :)

Well survived my first fast day without much difficulty and really wasn't too
hungry this morning.
Had intended to have a weigh in once a week is this the best idea..I am so motivated it it unreal. I think the thought that l can eat normally the next day is a big bonus and a motivator in itself.
Still hoping to have lost 14lbs by April

Sorry another quick question - what is a realistic safe weight loss per week? 2lb?

Morning all. Feels good to be back on the fast but even better to be on a normal day today! For any newbies - it took me a few weeks to get down to 500 cal or less on fast days, and to build in saving all the calories for one meal, so don't give up if it doesn't happen straight away; as everyone keeps telling you - it does get easier!

I have 2 points that have been bothering me / need to get my head round..

1. I get this is a healthy way to eat for adults, and it is not solely for losing weight, but can't see it being a way to bring up kids .. (can't imagine making a 2 yr old wait until 6 pm for their first meal 2 days a week!) So when do you think this WOE should kick in? after puberty? After they leave home and start to fend for themselves (you need to be in control of when you chose to eat after all)? When they realise they are overweight??

2. if someone is a recovering from anorexia, do you think this is a helpful WOE to follow? It gives people a chance to be very controlling for 2 days but more standard eating on 5 days which I guess is better than over-controlling every day.... Or do you think this WOE could hinder recovery?

These are just discussions that I have been having with 'non-believers' recently so wondered if any of you had any views on them!

Iwearblack re: anorexia, I know we have one or two people here who have had to deal with eating disorders, perhaps they'll be able to respond specifically. However from what I remember about their posts, they've said this isn't like their eating disorder days, and in fact this has helped them.

My own answer: this isn't anything at all like an eating disorder. The trouble starts when people start referring to non-fast days as "feast" days. They really aren't. You're meant to be eating the normal amount of food (TDEE) that your body is supposed to have on non-fast days. It isn't a "feast" unless you're pushing the boat out on a special occasion. Fast days are very low calorie but nothing different from other natural fasts which people have done throughout history and continue to do in various religions, etc.

Regarding children: ah. I wouldn't think this is the best WOE for a child whose body is still growing and developing. In an adult, it puts our cells into repair mode, which is a good thing. However, I'm not entirely sure that's good for a child whose cells are going through a different stage. They wouldn't be getting the nutrients they need, calcium etc. I take a daily multivitamin as well as a calcium supplement. I'm not a medical professional but it would be something to ask your GP if you were considering it.

Personally I'd think late teens, maybe, or whenever they'd be of an age to go on any other diet. I'd just be sure to take vitamins as well.

Also, I'm not sure you'll ever convince non-believers ;) but it's nice to try. They might end up being the sort who don't believe until there is a vast array of products which they can buy associated with it. :)

Welcome to the thread!

morning all and welcome to all newbies, you are all asking the same questions we all asked when we started, but I back up laska's good advice and say keep it simple, any 2 days a week (or 3 if you want to see quicker weight loss results) swap them as necessary so you can fit in social engagements, 500 cals for a woman, 600 for a man, drink plenty of fluids, go at least 16 hours from your eating day before to the first time you eat on teh fast day, or leave 16 hours between the last time you eat on fast day to breaking fast the following non fast day.

don't worry too much about TDEE, but it's interesting if you are gaining all the time, rather than just having gained and are now stuck at a higher than you are happy with weight, you might find that this WOE doesn;t give you the resultsyou were looking for, i.e. you might find your weight gain stops but you don't start losing, so then looking at TDEE and really seeing what might be the cause will help.

I definitely had big fluctuations in weight in the beginning and i haven't lost as much as many people on here, but I also know that I am not being at all careful on eating days, I genuinely eat whatever I like on non fast days, and that will include many celebratory type meals/drinking sessions etc so for me going from overweight to normal weight in BMI was great, and wearing small size 12 clothes rather than size 14 is great, over a longer period of time I hope to get to a size 10 but I'm in no hurry.

yesterday I had my first fast after a 3 week break (and 3 pound gain) i ended up failing, as I had a rare night off from my childen and a friend invited me to the pub and for supper afterwards, for me the joy of this WOE is that I could happily say yes to her invite, have a lovely evening and then start fasting again today, I don't feel bad, don't beat myself up about it, can just as happily fast today, and then have a lovely eating day with my kids tomorrow.

good luck to all, enjoy!

ps. i have not found that I have got sick at all, if anything I've made it through this winter so far without any bugs despite my kids being struck down with nasty ones and their dad catching it. so i don't know whether fasting makes you more prone to infection, but I don;t seem to be.

Iwearblack I suspect anorexics need to follow the advice of someone from the mental health profession when attempting to restrict calories by following any diet.
This diet is not recommended for a child who is still growing, no idea when growth stops, expect it's different for individuals. Recommended method of losing weight for juniors is increasing activity levels while maintaining non active calorie levels.

On convincing other people, I don't really think people want to be preached at about their diet, religion, politics or whatever. I try to only discuss my approach with those who express an interest...I'll give them a brief outline, if they are still interested then I will point them in the right direction to read up on it and convince themselves.

In terms of Children, my DD1 did 6:1 for 3 weeks back in september. She was starting to get concerned about her tummy so I agreed that she could. It worked, she lost the little bit she needed, then she stopped.

I don't think it hurts to let teenagers know what hunger really is, or to teach them a very good technique for handling it which could mean that they never end up in our position of being overweight. If we don't teach the young about these things then how are we going to turn the tide of obesity?

I wouldn't recommend it for younger children, but I think once kids are old enough to take some responsibility for their bodies it can't hurt.

I haven't been on for absolutely ages but I am loving this way of eating, although I'm doing 4:3.

I had a break over Christmas from 21st until 31st and literally ate and drank to my heart's desire. I did a 3 day fast this week (Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday) before weighing in today and total weight gain is 3lbs (dread to think what it was on Wednesday morning after 10 days unfettered eating so decided to wait until after my fast days to face the damage).

Delighted that I had an amazing, indulgent Christmas and can now get back on the wagon and also delighted I knew exactly how to deal with the excess.

7lbs to get to target and then will aim for an extra two pounds so I can have a bit of a buffer, feeling super motivated after a brilliant Christmas. I think I will do 4:3 until I'm at target and then try to maintain on 5:2 but without being careful on the other days.

I have to say I have been a bit sceptical about the lower immunity debate. Glad to hear from some of you that this is not the case. I too feel sick the week after I started fasting and have had the worst flu bug in years. And still can't shake the cough. But I am not taking a multi vitamin and will start to see if this makes a difference.

Mamoomin, I don't calorie count on normal days, but I know roughly what 2000 cals looks like, so I try to stick to that. There is plenty room for treats, as my actual meals are pretty healthy.

Just wanted to say hello and thank you to everyone who has shared their stories. My first fast day was yesterday and I did very well. I am feeling odd today though; tired and a little strange (?)

I had a gastric sleeve operation 3 years ago now and lost 10 stone. I still have 6 to loose. It's never easy is it? However, it is easy for me on fast days because I only have a small stomach which fills much quicker with less food.

Thanks again.

Michelle xx

Thanks for replies ... Have just started reading MM's book and he mentioned about IGF-1 being needed for cell growth (ie when younger) but how we don't need this so much as we get older. So I guess ok to follow this WOE after growth stops (after teens?).
Sorry didn't mean to imply I was trying to convert sceptics as such, more entering into a debate on the ins and outs of this WOE with other interested parties .... As those who know me, know I am not into bonkers diets so they are interested in my rational for following this one. Good we have the BOOK to refer people to now (not everyone would look at Mumsnet...)

I started this 2 days ago. I'm doing 2:1 which is a kind of halfway house between 5:2 and 4:3. It also means my fast days will change week on week but I think it will be ok.
On my first fast day I had a cup of tea for breakfast, a huge salad at lunch with,get this, 5g of cheddar and 2g of fat free salad dressing. Those little nuggets of flavour made a huge difference! For dinner i had roast beef, swede,broccoli and carrots. My plate looked fuller than a normal dinner.
Woke up the next day with a headache but it soon went. Looking forward to my next fast day tomorrow...
Start weight 12st 4 (5'7")
Target 11stone
Aiming for 1lb loss per week