5:2 Diet Thread! 7 is our lucky number...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. If you have another link for this episode, please PM me with it, or post it to the thread and we'll put it up for the next thread.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

I'm interested in the talk about possible impact on fertility with this way of eating. I've been hesitating about sharing my experience for fear of burdening people with TMI on TOTM but have decided that I should, just in case it helps someone else.

I'm 43 and at that perimenopausal stage where my cycle was starting to be fairly unpredictable when I started fasting 5:2 in August. My first cycle after starting was shorter than usual (by four days), but since then they've been back to regular-as-clockwork in a way that I haven't seen for a year or two.

My feeling is that your hormones, like your digestive system, will take a few weeks to settle down. And that if I were TTC again [brief pause in typing while I recover from that terrifying thought], then I wouldn't have any problems.

But I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has noticed anything similar...

virginposter - I had just 2 to 4 of those dried figs. Calories 21 to 35 each. And I've been cutting calories on alternate days, hardly missed any fast days. Have another 35 lbs to lose after 3 months of this routine. Maybe I should have started on 5:2 and then gone to 4:3 or something, but was in obese category and starting to have high BP. Now on the fast days I only eat green veggies, an orange or two and some legumes; still not able to shake off weight. What to do now?

That's good to hear Fastfeeder. I am still BF, so no cycles yet anyway :)

For interest, I also found this article, which seems really interesting: www.gwern.net/intermittent-fasting. It has heaps of links to research for those of you who are looking for more empirical information

It covers exercise and fasting ("Fasting before exercise increases fat utilization and lowers the rate of muscle glycogen depletion.") and use of fat stores ("The scientists used blood tests before and after the fasting period to look at a number of different metabolic markers. Among other changes, they found that levels of human growth hormone, or HGH, surged after fasting ? increasing 20 times in men and 13 times in women. The hormone is released by the body in times of starvation to protect lean muscle mass and trigger the body to start burning fat stores."

Another link that gives a review of human and animal trials:

www.cfrubicon.com/food-for-fuel/intermittent-fasting/

(apologies if these should be going into another thread!)

For anybody stalled for a couple of weeks (or hitting that stage where others stall) I would recommend weighing daily ? and make a note of each day.

This way I was able to see that though my regular Monday morning weight was the same for 3-4 weeks what it dropped to during the week was lower each week, and my average weight over the week was also lower each week.

Mind you I like a daily weigh in anyway!

ThinkICan
Others on here have suggested changing days etc to trick your body. How about trying 5:2 for a week or so then going back to 4:3? Perhaps this will start you again. Have you checked to see that you are eating enough on your non-fast days as going too low will stop you from losing? Also some of us find that we lose inches when the scales don't move - have you found your clothes looser? Don't give up whatever you do and you will start losing again.

Does anyone else have any suggestions??

Thank you virginposter. Maybe I'm too careful even on non-fast days. I was trying to eat two meals instead of three on feed days too. Otherwise I start feeling hungry at breakfast time on a fast day and then it's difficult to eat only 500 cals through the day. I have to go to the GP again in a week or two, as he needs to check my weight, my BP and determine whether to put me on meds or not. Bad time to stall :(

I was reading about set points in body weight. Someone suggests drinking 120 oz of water, says it moved her off the plateau!

laska I am definitely up for a meet up meal/glass of red/cheeseboard or cheesecake, I'm in london, and sometimes I'm up on Wirral in the North West (near Liverpool/Chester) so can meet either of those places, maybe we should try and map where everyone is and see who is interested and maybe organise some mini meets? Or just if anyone is planning a London visit, i'm happy to meet up for a coffee, in between shopping for smaller clothes or Fortnums goodies!

fast day today, has become such easy second nature to me now, really feels like a way of life long term maintainable, even down to me having a stash in my office drawer today of a konditor and cook mince pie and a beautiful hand iced xmas biscuit....they are there for tomorrow, if I feel like them tomorrow, so I don't feel deprived when everyone else is tucking into xmas goodies.

all the talk of homemade mince pies reminded me it is the season for festive baking, one of my favourite cupcake recipes is a vanilla sponge mixed with half a jar of mincemeat and then iced with brandy buttercream.....delicious!

am quite resenting work and divorce shenanigans getting in teh way of festive preparations, I love this season so much, I think I should be transported back to the 1950's (the american idealised version, not the actual british reality). anyway...I digress....

jossygiants you say you are only on your 2nd fast day, and that you have lost 3 pounds but partner not, how long has he been doing it? i think you need to give it a bit more time. I've been doing it for nearly 4 months now, have almost lost a stone, doing 5:2 I do eat whatever I like (as I did before this WOE) on non fast days, and some days that's a perfectly correct according to TDEE amount and other days it's way over, it fluctuates the same as it did before this WOE, the difference for me being that before i was slowly slowly year on year gaining a few pounds, probably half a stone a year, but if you think long term, that's no good, now, I am slowly losing it.

I think it's easy to focus on the weightloss, and think of this as a diet, but actually it's a combination of hopefully doing some good for our long term health, mixed with some benefits of weight loss and allowing us to have a fairly "normal" way of eating and enjoying food that other diets don't. some people lose lots and quickly, others don't so much, a minority really struggle to lose anything, but most of us do seem to lose and be happy to continue even without huge losses, once you've got into teh habit of it it becomes so much easier, and especially when you realise that even after hugely indulgent days/weekends/weeks you do not gain overeall, it starts to sink in how brilliant it is. i hope you and your partner stick at it, try not to get disapointed if it sticks or you have temporary rises, I definitely did but it does all start going in the right direction!

all the best!

breadandwine hear hear, you say such lovely positive openminded things!

Cyclistist -Yes! I totally know what you mean about the feeling when everyone catches on to something you knew was good. But it makes no sense (for me, at least) because I've been trying to convert anyone who would listen for weeks anyway!

I'm another one that really feels the cold on fast days. I guess you're depriving the body of its usual quantity of fuel for the fire. Right now I'm wrapped in a thick blanket in front of our lovely new wood-burning stove and I've STILL got chilly fingers. But I know that the minute I eat my evening meal (2 hours to go) I'll get a lovely warm glow within minutes. That, and the feeling of satisfaction after another successful fast day, makes it all worthwhile.

And the other great thing about this WOE (I'm on a roll now) is being able to look forward to Christmas and not fear what the excessive eating will do to me. At last I have a way to regulate it that I know I can stick to and that really does work. Stumbling across 5:2 has to have been one of this year's 'high points' for me - in what has otherwise been a bit of an 'annus horriblis.'

To anyone that's lurking and wondering whether to give it a go - do it. You've got nothing to lose (except maybe a few pounds! )

tiggy you can totally keep this a fast day if you manage a low-cal soup for supper. If I ever have the feeling I want something else this late in the day, I just think "do I really want to start this all over again tomorrow?" Stick to your soup tonight and you can have what you want tomorrow.

Good luck!

fastfeeder you are scaring me with talk of perimenopausal at 43......that seems early to me? maybe thats becasue I've just hit 40 and haven't given up daydreams of having another child, but for me nothing has really changed with my cycle, i have the mirena coil and don't really have periods, just spotting, but it is usually at around teh same time as my cycles were before. My feeling like yorus is that if I was actually TTC i would be able to without any problem. i don't think cutting down to 500 cals a day 2/3 times a week is actually starving our bodies to the degree that our periods stop....didn't someone say that to be in the category of danger (as in anorexic) we'd need to be consuming less that 500 cals a day...every day?

I'm sure someone esle has mentioned that In teh 40's and 50's when food was scarce becasue of the war women and men were all a lot thinner and yet there was a baby boom, (obviously men home from war was a strong reason for that, but I've not read anything to suggest fertility dropped?)

btw sorry for my typo's i can actually spell rather well, I just type too flippin' quickly and alwasy switch my letters!

Just read an article www.getthegloss.com/article/fast-track-to-weight-loss-the-5-2-diet where the nutritionist questions whether this WOE is sustainable (apologies if someone else referred to this earlier and I missed it).

'Martin's concern is that the biggest reason why diets fail is because they don't encourage a long term way of eating. His concern with the 5:2 is that it's not sustainable long term, which he says "Could lead to weight gain eventually." Could this buzz be like the Atkins where everybody lost weight, and they all put it back on again?Only time will tell.'

I completely disagree. I've been dieting on and off for 25 years and have never managed to stick to an eating plan in the way that I have with this. Been doing it since August and I have managed 2 fast days every week since then without for a moment feeling tempted to jack it all in.

I'm not saying it's been easy as such - I do get really hungry on fast days (although this has definitely lessened over time) but it HAS been do-able. I have every intention of doing this (or 6:1) for the rest of my life.

Here endeth the sermon

Agree. I have only been doing it for three months now, but have been able to keep it going pretty well without a break. I even managed to have a friend to lunch on a fast day (saved all my calories and served us homemade soup, homemade bread, smoked salmon and slices of mango--came in at just under 500 calories, so I had bouillon soup for my supper).

I don't lose much because I eat a lot on non fast days. But I don't need to lose any more and am just doing it for health reasons.

Hi all , well so far a meet in Brighton sometime could possibly be looking a distinct possibility, and yes MOCNK London may be also , but it may take a bit of organising..ill see if I get any more Pms .

Well I have abandoned fasting today (the first time ever I think) but only so far for another bowl of soup and piece of toast , but that makes me about 800 now.. but I woke up feeling C/rap.. headachey- and cold-y and sitting in a meeting this afternoon , it all got a bit swimmy and I honestly though I was going to faint or throw up. so I'm officially not quite up for fasting today I think ..

Never mind . early to bed , I have first of Christmas lunches tomorrow and want to enjoy myself, assuming feel better ( and do already after the hot soup) . Looking at what I ordered(several weeks ago!) i've only gone for the fish option and seared chicken salad starter and will be non- now as ill have to drive (my lift pulled out of going ) so it shouldn't be too disastrous (esp as dont do dessert! )

But hey ...its only a day lost , ill be back on it Sunday as usual .. and who knows I may get another loss tomorrow.. 9though it slowed right down for me now,.. but I'm just happy to have lost the 18lbs I have so far and to be well inside BMI normal now ..

18lbs is an amazing amount.

Ooh Simply Red... Was at their debut as supporting act to UB40 at Brixton Academy........

Hi All I would be up for a meet but I think I'm the only one in Scotland

I'm finding that now I'm close to target (initial target anyway)after loosing 18lbs on this WOE and 24 in total that I only lose weight on 4:3 weeks and STS if I 5:2. I have been alternating the last few weeks - initially not on purpose but laterally it has been as I do not want my body to get used to one particular routine. I have also upped my activity levels and am getting good results.

What I'm trying to say is if you're stalled - mix it up and keep your body guessing

In lieu of a meet up - I guard my anonymity quite carefully for various reasons -
may I suggest a virtual Christmas knees up .....

EVERYBODY who has posted on the threads, put a picture of yourself on your profile of you in a snazzy party frock / outfit, and as a motivator for those who wish, a picture taken just before you started the WOE....
will do mine this weekend :-)

just that its fun to actually visualise people even if we are too spread out to take over a real restaurant ....

Oooh Are you an international woman of mystery TIP? LOL Quite understand though.

Yay.. but cant wait to see pics of B&W and cyclistist in their party frocks!! I didnt know you can do that or see other profiles .. ill have to look (but then a prob.. i destroy most photos of me..) maybe ill get DH to see if he can get one where i don't look like a total dog.. ,

bordercollielover I saw Simply Red supporting UB40 also , in Brighton though.

Laska you probably won't know my folks to be honest - they only moved to Steyning 2years ago...but I'm there throughout Jan so could also do a Brighton glass of wine!

myjoy where are you moving to? I am desperate to find some mumsnetters in CA

fastfeeder I do think the fertility stuff is interesting, but as another done having babies (I have 2 and though I'm not 30 til next year I'm pretty sure that's it for me) and also having always had irregular periods I'm not too fussed. But it will be interesting to see if those hormonal changes have an effect on when I become peri-menopausal...it kicked off for my mum in her early 50's so who knows? I definately don't suffer from wakefulness, though that might have more to do with exhaustion brought on by non-sleeping DD

TalkIn that's an interesting idea..., would be a great motivator as well to see people like you, MoB, Laska and B&W who've lost quite a lot and are the stalwarts of the thread

I'm experimenting with exercise and fasting having read that stuff about exercise being more efficient on a fast day. I have a 30mile bike ride on Saturday and 50mile one next week, to be honest I'm not so bothered about using them as a weight loss tool, they're training rides for a charity 545mile-in-a-week ride I'm doing next year, haven't fasted the day before or on the day of a ride yet as I'm worried about energy levels - but this week have swam on my fasting days and it's been fine. So, fasting today, not on Friday then fasting Saturday when I'll also do 30mile ride. Then next week will test out fasting on Friday but not on Saturday when I'm doing a 50mile ride

argh just the rides are terrifying me let alone combining with fasting!

Fastfeeder, my periods have always been irregular. I have posted this before, but my son was actually an Ivf pregnancy, which can't have been helped with irregular periods. Well, since starting this woe in August, every period has arrived in a 29 day cycle - its unbelievable to me. This leads me to think that for me, it may actually improve my chances of fertility, rather than decrease them (although not overly bothered as not after anymore children).
I've been within a normal weight range for years, and am now at the bottom end of normal, so not like my body shape or energy consumption has changed dramatically. Confidence has though :)

Ok im mad (brave silly etc) but you can now see my photos, fat to fairly thin on my profile .. ill take my camera to the work do tomorrow and try and get someone to photograph me in my glad rags ..(but everyone will be smashed and/or silly )

WOW
Well done you :-)