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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet Thread Part Six! Now's the time to de-lurk and chat with us..

984 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 25/10/2012 12:49

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but we've filled several threads by now. Please share if you find something particularly useful, and we'll add it for the next thread.

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon. Wink

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
Laska42 · 14/11/2012 10:53

Mornin' Cyclistist My last couple of fast days i've felt a bit half hearted also .. maybe its because were pretty much where we wanted to be.. ( daft though.. it wont take much to go the other way again)

I'm fasting today , but thinking of tomorrow (when ill be stuck in a polling station from 6am and it will be about midnight when i get home) Silly but i've planned it as an eating day ...

Couldn't do that without , but already worrying about whe i will get breakfast.and whether I really should be fasting today when ill have to make food ready to take with me tomorrow .

Slap me...I am an Idiot .Grin
made that order yet?

healstorturepeople · 14/11/2012 11:06

Yes it could be body doing a de tox. My diet was very carb heavy. Feel a bit better now. Hungry though!

TheCyclistist · 14/11/2012 11:22

Hi Laska .Yeah not sure why the Fasting has become so difficult, what you say about being nearly where I want to be has got to be part of it. But at the same time, like you I'm aware it wouldn't take much to slip back and with some of my constant grazing on 'up' days I always have that concern in the back of my mind.

I want this to be a WOL though so need to find a way to make it fit in with my life and be an enjoyable and positive WOL rather than a toil. I feel I'm two thirds of the way to achieving that but like everyone else I'm learning and incorporating new ideas as I go...so not there yet.

With the Scorchio order, not yet have been so busy don't seem to have the time to sit down and properly go through it....but it will happen Grin thanks for the link

Good luck with the fasting today, and rather you than me tomorrow at the polling station

Breadandwine · 14/11/2012 11:50

Laska I'd take loads of reading material if I were you! It's going to be a long, slow, day! I'm with TheCyclistist - rather you than me! BTW, it was lovely to hear about you giving your new dress its debut! Smile

TheCyclistist have to agree with you about the 3 square meals a day business. The answer to your question is - only very recently in our history have we had constant access to food 24/7. I would suggest the body is more used to fasting than it is to constant replenishment.

On a personal note, I find fast days really easy now - and I agree a positive outlook helps. But I don't even find I need to promise myself I'll make up for it tomorrow - I just don't think about it. I'm fasting ATM - won't eat until 6.30-7 tonight, and I'm thinking "How can I make a veg curry/chilli small enough for just one meal?" I've generally made far too much!

I'm also going to eat the full 600 calories, which means I can have a large potato (200cals) which I can turn into fried curried wedges with some 0ne-cal spray. I've no doubt I'll be stuffed afterwards.

Last night we had the remains of the apple crumble from Sunday - and I have to tell you, it's not just curries/stews, etc, that are better the next day. It was simply delicious - and, for the forseeable future, will feature every Sunday.

frenchfancy · 14/11/2012 12:01

heals 1500-1600 cals on a feed day still isn't enough. If you have 5 stone to lose you are not a skinny (no offense) so you need more cals than that to live.

Here is some maths (sorry I like numbers)

I don't know your height and weight so I am going to invent a person, lets call her Annie.

Annie is 5'4" tall and is 5 stone over her ideal BMI (of 23) so weighs 14st7lbs.

She has a moderate exercise regime. To maintain her weight she needs to eat 2500 cals per day.

She wants to lose the weight as quickly as is healthy, according to caloriecount the recommended loss is 2lb per week. In order to do this on a normal calorie restriction diet Annie should eat 1444 cals per day (or 10108 cals per week)

If Annie wants to do 5:2 then she should eat 1821 calories on eating days and 500 cals on fast days. (so the same 10108 per week)

If Annie wants to do 4:3 then she should eat 2152 calories on eating days and 500 cals on fast days. (again the same 10108 per week)

These figures are for optimum weight loss. As Annie loses weight the figures can be reduced according to her new weight.

If Annie eats much less than these figures then her body is going to go into gluconeogenisis. Annies body can metabolise fat in all organs but 2, her red blood cells must have glucose, her brain needs some glucose but can survive with the rest of its energy coming from something called ketone bodies. The body can make limited amounts of glucose by breaking down stored fat. Ketone bodies are made from fat. However a body cannot make enough glucose from simply breaking down fat (if you are not eating enough) because the by products of the fat breakdown (fatty acids, ketones like acetone) simply overloads the blood. So the body starts to break down protein to make the glucose. This is starvation mode. This is when your body stops working properly. This is what Annie needs to avoid in order to stay healthy.

This is why the weekly calorie number is so important. If you are fasting on some days you need to give your body some fuel on the other days. Simply reducing the calories lower and lower will not help you lose weight, it will make you ill. It may also cause your skin to lose elasticity which means when you have lost the weight you will have excess skin. Steady, healthy weight loss avoids this problem.

Laska42 · 14/11/2012 12:27

french fancy thats about the best explanation of this I've read . Brilliant! are you a teacher?

B&Wand Cyclisist Yep , its always a pretty long day (and ill be doing the count on Friday also) but were expecting it to be MEGA slow tomorrow as No-one really seems to be engaged in the process.. (ah well..its my Xmas new dress money!.. Gosh, i've got so vainBlush.. which is another good (Hmm?) reason to stick with the fasting..

BTW B&W you have the exactly the same height and weight stats as my DH .. who has been like that for the last 30 years or so.. but in discussing this WOE with him, i've come to realise that he is that way because he naturally fasts a couple of days a week and has done ever since he can remember.. If he's had a 'hard eating' weekend (and believe me he can put away tons, which always used to make me really annoyed that he stayed slim ) then he doesn't eat the day after .. NOW I realise why I got fat and he didn't.. If id eaten tons at weekend I just carried on!

Thelittlestranger · 14/11/2012 13:23

I've been keeping an eye on this thread, but not posted much recently...still here though!

B&W, we also finished off our Sunday apple crumble last night, and it was delicious!

Laska, it's so true that slim people naturally fast when they've eaten more the day/meal before. I just can't understand why they didn't share this with me!!!

Went shopping today, and have just bought size 14 jeans and top. Very excited about this, 5 months (just) from giving birth, and expect my weigh in tomorrow to show 2lbs loss this week (total of 15lbs on this WOE) after a stay the same last week. Such a lovely feeling...goodbye maternity jeans at last!

lilacbluebell · 14/11/2012 13:35

that's a good explanation there frenchfancy.

Why do men get an extra 100 cal on a fast day?

I was meant to be fasting today, but missed my main meal last night and so was starving this morning. Will try to fast tomorrow, but I have a lot on. If I do manage tomorrow as a fast day I will try to tag on Saturday to do my 4:3, but may have to accept 6:1 or 5:2 for this week.

pookey · 14/11/2012 13:37

Well done Thelittlestranger thats great :) Also The cyclist, BAW and everyone else who is doing well.

I have lost about 1lb over the last month. Having looked at the Times article posted earlier (which I plan to show to dp) I am thinking I need to extend the period of time without eating so I might try fasting from dinner time to dinner time (prob not easiest option but allows eating with family) . I also think milk in tea and coffee might be stopping me from going into repair mode. Def think I am going wrong but that I can try diff things to shift weight. Even if I stay as I am and lose 2 or 3 lb over next couple of winter months I will be happy not to have gained weight. (I went from 11 stone to 12.7 in the last year and I am only 5ft 4).

What i have been doing if anyone is interested in how not to do it : I eat as late into the evening prior to a fast as I want to (this sounds bad but probably only means some toast at 10pm if I had a small early main meal). i drink more or less unlimited tea and coffee with skimmed milk when fasting and then have about 400 cals of food either in one bigger or two smaller meals. My weight loss was better when I was eating one meal. I do not eat many vegetables (prob 1-3 portions). I do not excerise apart from housework and walking a fair bit. As I said lots of room for improvement and better health and weightloss when i feel ready!

pookey · 14/11/2012 13:39

The other area in which i go wrong is bad sleeping habits. One thing to know the problem another altogether to change it...

catsrus · 14/11/2012 14:13

That's a very useful summary frenchfancy thank you Smile

as I only need 1535 maintenance calories per day at this weight (gone are the days when I could think of that figure as a slow weight loss level Sad) then even with 4:3 I'm only 1500 a week down. If I get down to my new target (another 7lb to get the waist out of the danger zone) then I will need even less to maintain that - 1485.

that is not a lot of calories.

I am working on the basis of 3 fast days if possible, days when I'm not fasting keep as low cal as possible to compensate for the times when I will be eating out and have no will power am faced with limited food choices. ATM that is often as the christmas season is upon us.

I'm wondering what the "averaging out" period is for the process FF outlines - should it be over a week, a few days, a month? ADF and IF seem to assume it's a short period of a few days - so we need to make sure that maybe one day in 3 is a "full maintenance calorie" day?

Breadandwine · 14/11/2012 16:07

lilac Why do men get 600 calories?

I think it's because it's a quarter of the recommended 2500 cals (so we should get 625 as an allowance! Grin).

And women only get a quarter of 2000, of course.

I'm currently on a fast day - won't eat until tonight - and I've just made my curry using only 187 calories (without r-k-beans it would be less than 100!). It completely fills a side plate, but, since I shall be having it with broccoli and curried wedges, I won't be able to eat it all.

As I said earlier, I'm trying to eat my full amount of calories, and I'm not finding it easy.

The wedges and broccoli will add another 150 calories - which leaves me another 250 cals or so. Still thinking about what to have.

catsrus Once you get in the mindset, 1485 won't seem so bad after all. Good luck!

GreenEggsAndNichts · 14/11/2012 16:13

Yes B&W has it- the fast day calories are figured as 1/4 of the average calories a man or a woman should eat in a day. It's mentioned in some of the links in the OP.

If you think about it, it does of course mean that some of us could be eating slightly more or slightly fewer calories on a fast day (I could eat more than 500, going by 1/4 of my maintenance calories) but I choose to stick to the 500.

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 14/11/2012 16:18

pookey
Eating late at night is a notorious and well researched cause of poor sleep.
On a totally different Horizon yonks ago they covered it and if I remember rightly, you should stop eating at least three hours before going to sleep. I'll try to find the links but it was to do with having your stomach empty and just your intestines working while you sleep.
Also, not drinking alcohol at all massively improves how well you sleep - even 4 days a week.

Greeneggs - quite probably, but the 500 figure is easy for everybody to work to : one of the wonders of this diet is that regardless of size and age, we are all planning similar meals on our fast days (stir fry tonight ....)

Laska42 · 14/11/2012 16:42

...Also eating early is essential for me to get my 16hrs in as I still do two meals on my fast days..

so Just had a bowl of h/m Turkey and veggie chilli (no k-beans but the whole recipe (6 servings) has 1/2 tin of baked beans that just happened to be left over ),

So that's my 500 for today ....

So now I'm full I can go and prepare my food to take with me for the long day tomorrow without danger .. Smile

frenchfancy · 14/11/2012 17:32

I think simplicity is the key, so using 500 rather than 25% just simplifies things.

Laska no I'm not a teacher, I find it easy to explain things, but I would find it very difficult spending spending all day in a room full of children!

healstorturepeople · 14/11/2012 18:34

Thanks frenchfancy. That was a lovely clear explanation. I will up my calories as suggested.

Today I have had 2 kiwis, porridge, yoghurt and homemade veg soup. Fasting day. About 600 calories.

BrigitBigKnickers · 14/11/2012 19:36

Second fast day of the week- started the day ravenous but this subsidedand I managed to fast till lunchtime meaning I have done at least 16 hours meaning I can eat my breakfast tomottow morning before I go to work.

Was madly busy today which always makes it easier to fast.

lilacbluebell · 14/11/2012 20:12

thanks B&W (and others). So, working on the 25% theory and being a fatty, on a day when I'm struggling with the fast idea (such as today) I could have slightly more than 500 cals (yet tomorrow's fast will be fine at 500 because I have eaten well today and am prepared for tomorrow.)

nextphase · 14/11/2012 20:56

Evening Ladies and Gents,

I've finally decided this baby weight has to go, and having failed miserably on a "just cut out the sugary treats" idea after a few days, am trying this way. Thinking I can be restrained for 24 hrs.... Been ok so far.

Fasted on Sunday (about 600 cal), and then again today (more like 500).
I was wondering about how you have been fitting in exercise and fasting. Do you ever exercise on fast days? Or just before a fast day?

Also, and I'm sure I've seen this somewhere, so apologies for the repeat, how essential is the 16 hrs? I typically would do 13 hrs. Would that be enough? Fitting in meals round 2 small people has proven difficult (and the last time I went without food for that long was on the post labour word - dinner served at 5pm, and breakfast at 8.30am, it wasn't great!)

Thank-you

TalkinPeace2 · 14/11/2012 21:10

Today I swam half a mile, did yoga, did bodypump, had miso soup for lunch and a veggie stirfry with a bit of chicken for supper
about 550 calories and that's it for the day !

Breadandwine · 14/11/2012 21:43

I used up my surplus 250 calories thusly:

100g stout (before the meal) - 44 cals
50g dry red (with the meal) - 34 cals

And I followed up with an old favourite, again one I haven't had for years - banana and custard:
75g Alpro dairy/egg free custard - 61 cals
45g banana - 45 cals

Giving me a total for my evening meal of 540, give or take.

(Just realised, I've still got half a serving spoon of curry leftover - say 25 cals to take off?)

I could so easily go under 500 (leave out the pud)
Under 400 (leave out the r-k-beans)
Under 200 (leave out the wedges)

Finally, I could have had a filling meal of just over 100 calories by increasing the veg!

And it's an eating day tomorrow!

Jobyloo · 14/11/2012 21:57

Evening everyone, I'm planning on doing a fast day tomorrow (think its the 6th one) decided to go with Mon or Tues & Thurs ...not sure that I can manage 16hrs so will just have to see how it goes. Did you all build yourselves up to that amount of time or just try straight away?

I'm finding it hard to get out of ww mentality because of doing it for years... but determined to plod on. Have been absolutely amazed at all the info that's available on this site...lots of food for thought Wink so thank you for sharing so freely Thanks

Laska sorry to hear about the job, fabulous about the dress and good luck for tomorrow!!!

Jobyloo · 14/11/2012 22:34

Frenchfancy just read your explanation earlier and the lightbulb has just switched on in my head Grin Think I've worked out where I've been going wrong...Thank you

TheCyclistist · 14/11/2012 22:35

Hi Nextphase , The 16 hours thing. like everything else with this is just one possible piece of the jigsaw. The theory is I think something along the lines of how not eating for a period of time interacts with Insulin production which then interacts with every cell in your body and 'may' then promote some health benefits and possibly fat loss. Not everyone does it and not all the limited studies that have taken place have had this as a criteria.

For me the science looks compelling and I try where possible to follow this on a fasting day and on at least one other day a week.

Hi Jobyloo , when I first started this WOL I didn't do the 16 hours and still lost weight. Like you say I built up to this gradually, being completely new to Fasting I don't think I'd have been able to handle 16 hours at the start. I reckon if you look at the first 5:2 Thread (This is the 6th), there would probably have been very little mention of the 16 hours.

Hope the day goes fast for you Laska , can't see you being rushed off your feet tomorrow Smile