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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet Thread Part Six! Now's the time to de-lurk and chat with us..

984 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 25/10/2012 12:49

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but we've filled several threads by now. Please share if you find something particularly useful, and we'll add it for the next thread.

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon. Wink

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 10/11/2012 16:15

How on EARTH could this WOE be classed as Bulimia?
What a stupid thing to say.
Five days a week I eat one and a half meals - as I have done for ten years.
Two days a week I eat 3/4 of a meal.
How on earth is that an eating disorder?

starlady · 10/11/2012 16:22

TalkinPeace2 - I really think if people can't get a handle on the science they just dismiss it. Ignorance and protectionism.

The fact that may doctors are on it persuades me it as safe as anything. Certainly safer that what I have been doing to my body for years.

GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 10/11/2012 16:43

Tosh - bulimia is binging and purging, gorging yourself way beyond the point of fullness then making yourself vomit. It is offensive to both people using this WOE and bulimics who have a serious mental health condition that they need help with.

I don't see how doing this is any more eating disorderly than cutting out all carbs or counting all calories or doing weirdo paleo/Atkins/zone/whatever diets, except this actually fosters a healthy attitude to food on feast days - everything in moderation.

Of course you probably sounded like you protested too much - because it's insulting to be accused of having an eating disorder when actually you're finding a new healthier way of living. The reports back on this thread alone is testament to that.

Sorry, feeling a bit sensitive because I have had people say it sounds a bit anorexic (due to "not eating") but bulimic? Pretty sure nobody here is forcing themselves to vomit...

squoosh · 10/11/2012 17:40

Hmm, to be fair you've just dismissed low carb diets as 'weirdo' because you're annoyed someone said the same about the 5:2. Low carb isn't 'weirdo', there's a lot to be said for ditching sugar and white flour from your diet.

It's easy to dismiss all 'diets' if you don't know the actual thinking behind them. I'm enjoying 5:2 but can see how it could descend into dodgy territory for someone who thought 'oh let's make it 2 days eating, 5 days fasting instead'. The same way that people low carbing might decide to eat only steak and fried eggs.

All WOE are open to abuse, that doesn't mean that the original thinking behind them is flawed.

GirlWithTheMouseyHair · 10/11/2012 20:11

Yeah I'll take that criticism to be fair!! I guess I just meant anyone can compare all "diets" and start hurling around accusations of eating disorders and any WOE I'm sure can escalate into an eating disorder - but that doesnt mean it IS an eating disorder.

I just think it's incredibly insensitive to those who actually do struggle with eating disorders

Rolf · 10/11/2012 20:44

So instead of having a nice fasting day yesterday I surrendered to my rampaging PMT and spent the day eating chocolate and frightening my family. A bit more of the same today and hopefully by next week, after cleaning up the feathers and entrails I can get back in the saddle Sad

pookey · 10/11/2012 20:47

Although I don't find my appetite much reduced on non fast days I am def not binging.

DP is correcting me it was a dietician and psychologist not a nutritionist he was talking to and acc to her the current opinion in the field is that it is on the beginning of a bullemic spectrum (which doen't necc involve vomitting but some kind of binge purge).

Me and Dp have just had a mini row about this and he has wagered that I will not still be doing this in the new year. I def will. He doesn't want to hear that people are following this because it has been shown to have many health advantages.

I think I got my ratios mixed up earlier I am fasting 3 days a week.

squoosh · 10/11/2012 20:49

I agree, it's unhelpful when you only have the vaguest of knowledge of a woe to be throwing words like bulimia around, even if you are a nutritionist, especially if you're a nutritionist actually!

TalkinPeace2 · 10/11/2012 21:14

pookey
tell your DH that many of the friends I have who are doing 5:2 are already at BMI under 23, are over 45, are seriously fit and just want to avoid having to take lots of pills in old age

Amumsim · 10/11/2012 21:25

Frenchfancy thanks for the tip, I think if I'm still struggling next week I'll give it a go. My thought was to get both fast days over and done with but what you have said makes sense.

Isn't bulimia characterised by binge-ing and purging, fasting involves neither, I can't see any similarity!

TalkinPeace2 · 10/11/2012 21:37

amumism
agree that you should NOT fast on two consecutive days
many, many of us do Mondays : a nice break after the weekend
and then there is a mixture of wednesday and thursday
and some fasting three days do M W F
remember that is is about forming new habits
the weight loss is a nice side effect
but the medical side is about the gap between meals on the assumption that the residual diet is a healthy one

GreenEggsAndNichts · 10/11/2012 21:46

Agree with everyone above who say it's nothing at all like bulimia. Bulimia involving bingeing and purging. We're doing neither. People who want to take the negative angle will say we're bingeing on off-days, but that is because they're not even trying to understand the concept. We're eating a normal, non-dieting amount of food on off-days.

In fact, this is the reason I don't call our non-fast days "feast" days. I realise it sounds cute (fast! feast!) but it always brings up these eating disorder conversations.

If these nutritionists (or, dieticians? I see the update above now) would actually look at the science, perhaps they'd understand. However, I don't think they're interested enough. Yet. It goes against everything they've learnt in whatever studies one needs to become a nutritionist: 3 meals a day, "helps keep your metabolism up" etc.

This is new research, new ideas, and people are always resistant to change. Especially if they're currently employed in a profession which is telling people something completely different!

OP posts:
scripsi · 10/11/2012 21:49

I am going to start this, have been reading up over the last week (all the amazing links here!). I had considered doing the CRON diet but this seems much more sustainable and more grounded in science.
I will be doing it because my genetic inheritance is seriously stacked against me (both of my parents died young) and I want to be around for DCs, I don't have much weight to lose but I have notice that I am thicker around the waist/back (which are not good health signs) so I am hoping that this will have an effect on all that. I am going to do 5:2, probably focusing on eggs, fish and low calorie vegetables on the fast days as I will want to keep my blood sugar reasonably level (and any refined carbs tend to make me hungry!). I have started exercising regularly too.
On fast days I will probably have a late lunch of two boiled eggs, then steamed fish with vegetables stirfried in a teaspoon of stock.
Feeling quite apprehensive (irrationally worried about being starving!) but pleased to be doing this!

TalkinPeace2 · 10/11/2012 21:55

Welcome
and be ready to be surprised
you will feel hungry but its manageable and only till the next day ....

Bordercollielover · 10/11/2012 22:17

BandW how do you make, or where do you buy, your vegan pesto?

scripsi · 10/11/2012 22:38

Thanks TalkinPeace2, I have been busy planning so that I will have the right food in etc.

My fast days will be Thursday and Saturday (perhaps odd but it works with my working days).

Breadandwine · 10/11/2012 22:43

Hi BCL

Sainsbugs! It's to be found about halfway along the 'FreeFrom' section, fairly low down, in both stores I frequent.

It's by Meridian, with a black top, and it's £1.75 a jar.

MummysHappyPills · 11/11/2012 06:52

I've got a few recipes for vegan pestos somewhere if anyone wants them?

I am wondering what to do today. I am doing ADF ATM. So have done 3 fasts already this week and today is supposed to be a fast day, but last night I was up with really bad diarhoea and was sick a bit. Sad

I really hope it was not the quiche I made and took to a party!Blush Though can't see it being this as the eggs I used were very new and fresh, and I cooked it just before the do?

Also I felt a bit dizzy all day yesterday and had a very fatty, rich lunch so that might have something to do with it...

So, really not sure what to do today. The scales are showing a 2lb loss so far, that is after a feeding day yesterday, but obviously also having a bad tum!

I just worry that if I have an eating day today, by weigh in tomorrow I'll have lost nothing. Sad Also can't fast tomorrow as going out for meal for fruend's birthday.

But I just feel a bit wobbly tiday and like I need a bit of sustenance -even if my body may just ultimately reject it. Grin Do you still fast when you're poorly/under the weather?

(Sorry about tmi btw, hope none of you are eating your breakfast!Grin)

frenchfancy · 11/11/2012 07:07

mummysHP I think if your body is telling you to eat you should. You are unlikely to over eat today if you feel ill. Have a slice of toast and see how you feel in an hour. You can always make it a 750 day rather than a 500 day. (no rules remember)

rachelblythe · 11/11/2012 07:55

Hey everyone, I'm still reading avidly just don't get chance to post too often recently. it's good to see all the newbies and lots of people doing well. Weight loss has plateaued for me but I am at target :) I'm still doing 4:3 but not so strict with my calories on a Wednesday fast, it's probably more of an intermediate day, getting the 16 his complete fast in, then maybe having around 1000 calories. My husband said I should drop to 5:2 but I'm scared that I might start putting weight back on. As it is I eat what I like on my off days and have as least one meal of Takeaway or at a restaurant a week, followed by lots of alcohol. I enjoy this without any counting, weighing, etc. plus I find my routine at the moment perfectly doable and maintainable. Definitely doing to keep it as is until after xmas I think.
I mainly have a really hot veggie chilli con carni on a Monday and Friday fast and make some cooling tzatziki (sp) which I really enjoy and look forward too, although I think I need to get another couple of freezer compatible recipes as it's not realistic to think of eating this every week for the rest of my life lol! I did make a very nice veggie jalfrezi the other day out of slimming wield recipe book, but not sure how well it would have frozen I'll have another read through our little recipe thread. Hope everyone had a good day

Bordercollielover · 11/11/2012 09:28

Thanks BandW I will look for it next week.
Yes please MHP I would like a vegan pesto recipe, hope you feel better soon. Anyone know how to do bold lettering on an iPad? I know how in Pages but can't do it on here.

Liberty132 · 11/11/2012 10:04

Hi

Just catching up with posts. Will stay out of eating disorder debate as I too have had to defend this WOE to work colleagues.

Rainbow - I am the same as you. This was my second week for this WOE. First week lost 3lb. Was so chuffed as I did 'feast' on the other days. This week I did 5:2 as per the previous week and didnt feel I ate as much on non fast days, yet the scales have me 2lb up. Gutted.

I too wonder what happened. I will of course continue this week and dont feel the need to try 4:3 just yet.

If I am honest I am initially more concerned with weight loss than the other health benefits. I know at 36 years of age I have to start thinking longer term, but right now I am trying to shift this last 6 - 8lbs that wont go.

I must say though that I feel a tad slimmer. IBS bloated tum is less obvious. I am though still getting acid pains so IBS hasnt gone - just less noticeable.

Any tips would be welcomed. I am sure I have drunk enough. I only swam once this week but ignoring the fact it was a busy week, I was so tired that I would have struggled to do much more.

Non fast today - plan to fast tomorrow (Monday) and Wednesday again.

My aim (WISH) is to lose 5lb by Christmas and then another 2 - 3lb by the end of Jan (plus any I may put on over Christmas!). I then want to find a way of maintaining weight loss with this WOE.

Wish me luck.

Skinnyeye · 11/11/2012 10:16

We all wish you luck Liberty (and everyone else) we are all in this together

Another glorious Autumn day in Glasgow so heading out for a cycle. Normal day for me today no breakfast yet but will have a picnic lunch. Back much later Grin

MummysHappyPills · 11/11/2012 10:33

Vegan red pesto:

50g sundried tomato paste
50g black olives
50g pine nuts
10g fresh parsley
10g fresh basil
2 cloves garlic
2 tsp lemon juice
1 tblsp olive oil
Black pepper

Whizz in food processor. Serves 2

Pumpkin seed "green" pesto:

25g punpkin seeds
40g pumpkin seed butter
10g fresh parsley
10g fresh basil
1 clove garlic
1 tsp lemon juice
Dash of olive oil or flax oil

Whizz in gredients in food processor. You may need to grind seeds in a coffee grinder first.

Also serves 2.

I quite like the pumpkin seed one, but it has an unusual flavour and doesn't taste much like non vegan pesto! But I guess you could always just use pine nuts instead and maybe cashew butter or tahini instead of the pumpkin seed butter, and stick with olive oil instead of flax, and use plenty of basil, and then it would taste more like the real deal!!

Both recipes are from Patrick holford low gl diet cookbook. I think I have some more in a vegan cookbook, will have to try and dig it out.

catsrus · 11/11/2012 11:18

I'm not losing again ATM - wobbling around the same 2lb on and off - but I'm not too worried as I'm in it for the long haul Smile. Yesterday I was at a "do" at lunch with delicious food - then at a party in the evening with more delicious food. I could have eaten well all day - but decided to only nibble fruit at lunch, ate something filling and healthy when i got home as I knew we were having Wine and dancing before the buffet - I only had 2 large glasses all night, did sample lots of lovely food - blue cheese [bliss] lovely bread.

Another non fast day today - I have learnt that trying to do a fast day after Wine is a struggle so I now don't. Will fast on Monday as I'm working out of the house and it's easier when getting food is more difficult than opening the fridge Grin.

A friend who saw me last night is going to give it a go - she did see the original programme so knew what I was talking about when I told her "how I'd done it" (I.e. lost 16lb) the funny thing was in the middle of all that weight loss, but before it was quite so obvious, I'd been out for a meal with her and some friends so could show her that you really can lead a "normal" life while losing weight.

In the lead up to christmas and work related do' s I think I'm going to knuckle down with the fast days as much as I can for the next 4 weeks and see if I can get comfortably under 10st for the first time in over 10 yrs. It's obviously getting harder to do as my calorie needs decrease as my weight goes down and I am mid normal range BMI but the waist measurement is still in the danger zone at 34".

For me it's not about calorie counting on non fast days but awareness of the calorie value of foods - so I get to know and understand what the consequences are of eating some kinds of food to excess and learn to balance the occasional excesses almost without thinking - I.e. think and act like a thin person! I cerainly don't want to feel like I'm on a diet for the rest of my life - but I need to train myself into better habits food wise.