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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet Thread Part Six! Now's the time to de-lurk and chat with us..

984 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 25/10/2012 12:49

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Here is a list of the links we've gathered so far about this diet. I hope I haven't left many out, but we've filled several threads by now. Please share if you find something particularly useful, and we'll add it for the next thread.

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

is a link to the first part of the aforementioned Horizon, subsequent parts of that episode are linked on that page.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting them all in one post this afternoon. Wink

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
mollysfolly · 07/11/2012 14:15

That's the first time I've seen any mention of needing to average one's BMR and TDEE. Confused

TalkinPeace2 · 07/11/2012 14:47

Why do I work roughly to an average of BMR and TDEE?

Because I am a VERY light build. And even with the huge amounts of exercise I do, before I did 5:2 I was putting on weight. Despite only eating one and a half meals a day. I look like a lard arse with a BMI over 24. Looking back at old pictures, I look best at BMI of just under 20.

That is NOT the case for everybody.

But I think an awareness of the difference between the two might be useful for those who are stalling and still have a ways to go.

Its about realising what the lean (I hate skinny / slim) version of you will need to eat to stay that way. And its not much!

NB that is my case. There are others who look scrawny with BMI under 23 just because of the shape of their face and torso
but I love having lost that extra crease under my arms - the one that hangs over tops :-)

Hang on in there ladies and tweak the figures and targets so that they work for you in the short and long term

DontGoThereDaisy · 07/11/2012 14:57

22nd fast yesterday ? 11 weeks in and 13 pounds down (so close to that stone!)

Glad to see some other people having some of the same thoughts and issues.

Fatsatsuma
I don?t think there is a definitive calorie count (my problem was with corn cobs which have a spread of 50 -150 calories!) ? where there is a discrepancy I tend to take a middle value.

onit
I?ve found my arms (especially my forearms) seem to take an extra hour to ?wake up? in the morning, no idea why!

virginposter · 07/11/2012 14:57

Hi notwilliam
I too got stuck after a few weeks but hung in there for three weeks of staying the same. Then I changed to 4:3 for a couple of weeks and lost another 3lbs (which now makes 10lbs loss on this WOE) am back to 5:2 now but found that 4:3 wasn't as bad as I'd imagined and will go back to it if I get stuck again.
I also wonder if perhaps you are bunged up? I take a teaspoon of psyllium husks in water every day as it is a natural roughage and keeps me regular as clockwork!
I'd like to say again a big thank you to all the regular posters - i'm still lurking and soaking up all your wonderful information Thanks

TellMeLater · 07/11/2012 15:06

TIP2 sounds like you are following a good old fashioned calorie controlled diet!

GreenEggsAndNichts · 07/11/2012 15:06

notwilliam I also suggest 4:3, if you're looking for a bit of a jump start on results. This WOE is very flexible; just do 4:3 for a week or two and see if your results change.

I'm doing 4:3 because I wanted results, and it means I don't have to worry much on my non-fast days. I also have a bit of a personal timeline here (we'll likely be TTC within a month or two, so I will have to stop this in its current incarnation once that happens, will be back to it indefinitely once I'm past that as I find it a very enjoyable WOE). I'm closing in on my pre-baby weight and would like to be close to that again before I go through the potential pregnancy roller coaster.

So. Try to mix things up. I have no idea why your stomach would be bloated, though? Are you sure that's related to thise WOE; I've not heard anyone mention that yet? There might be a medical issue?

OP posts:
NotWilliamBoyd · 07/11/2012 15:09

Thanks for your ideas, everyone - I'm actually doing 4:3 this week (fasted on Saturday and yesterday plus again tomorrow having done Monday and Wednesday last week) which was why I was quite so down when I jumped on the sales this morning! - As in, my mood, was down, not my weight......

TalkinPeace2 · 07/11/2012 15:12

tellmelater
except that I do not count calories now. I've even stopped MFP
because I used it for long enough to work out what I need to roughly aim for
and am now fasting two days a week, not drinking four days a week and doing whatever I like at the weekend Grin

ThatBintAgain · 07/11/2012 15:49

Ok. I managed to do 24 hours with no calories. I've just had a hearty lunch and am thinking that I could probably now go another 24 hours...

Notwilliamboyd - I totally sympathise as I felt like nothing much was doing before I fell off the wagon for two weeks (because of my birthday!) I'm trying to take the long view. And to not go silly on eating days! Hang in there.

skippyscuffleton · 07/11/2012 16:08

Cyclistist A huge thank you to you for pointing out that my triglyceride reading was down by nearly 20%. I originally just viewed both figures as around 1 and thought there wasn't much difference Blush That result has given me a lift. I should also have mentioned that my blood pressure was 121/84. Not sure exactly what old bp readings were but they were always at the high end of normal, so 5:2 IF has definately had a positive effect on my bp. Unfortunately I think I've also demonstrated that there hasn't been much cognitive improvement Wink. The labstestonline link is also a good 'un and their comments on low IGF-1 symptoms appear to fit nicely with my own experiences. I couldn't see where on the site you can actually apply for a blood test, although maybe another sign of my declining cognitive ability. I had a quick hunt for the cheapest available IGF-1 test this morning and the chapest I found was for 112. Will keep hunting and get a test booked soon. Anyone else had an IGF-1 test in London and paid less than 112 pounds?

Natashamousse That was a great link too, thanks for posting. Good to see a study where the subjects were not obese plus some perceived differences with fasting results between mice and people. I'm a big fan of links to actual research papers as opposed to blog theorists.

FoodieToo · 07/11/2012 16:22

No I definitely would not average the two. Unless being very cautious. THey are two different figures.

TellMeLater · 07/11/2012 16:28

Tip2 that sounds a bit like the zig zag diet, whatever works for you but if the TDEE calculations are correct then i'd assume most people are just fine sticking with that figure - otherwise there is little difference between this diet and calorie controlled dieting.

TalkinPeace2 · 07/11/2012 16:35

tellmelater
Ish. In that since I started 5:2 my whole appetite has dropped. I'm eating a lot less meat - just don't feel like it. And even at the weekend I stay roughly on my TDEE including my beloved red wine!

The main thing is that TDEE drops as you lose weight so that those who are losing fast need to recheck their figures every couple of weeks ....

onit · 07/11/2012 16:53

Thanks DontGoThereDaisy - it was my forearms that were so tired - how bizarre. I'm doing my second 'fast' today so will see if they're the same tomorrow.......Smile Looking forward to something to eat in an hour or so

lilacbluebell · 07/11/2012 16:59

second fast day today, and I have just had around 350 of my cals in my meal - veg and cashew nut stir fry with rice (all measured and calculated on MFP).

I have found today hard, not from a hunger point of view, as I only felt a slight hunger and that was manageable. But I have felt faint, achey ribs/tight chest and been burning up. I had a bad start to the day with a panic attack at 5am though, so probably nothing to do with the WOE? Haven't had as many hot drinks as my first fast day as I was at school until half past one, and I don't have a break.

I have eaten my meal before I cook for the DC so I don't end up eating all their garlic breadWink

NotWilliamBoyd · 07/11/2012 17:00

You're all soo lovely, thank you!

I'm going to plod on and see how my weight goes over a longer period. I do like feeling virtuous on the fast days, I find them tough but not impossible. Knowing I can have nice foodthe next day (within reason, obviously) really makes a big difference for me.

Thanks again for your encouragement.

used2bthin · 07/11/2012 17:02

Hello, sorry if this has been covered but could someone talk to me about 5.2 and breastfeeding please? Started two weeks ago and have been ok but massive headache today. Thought my baby was unsettled on nights after fasting (due to eating loads of veg) but actually she is just unsettled at night generally atm it seems so probably unrelated.

Rolf · 07/11/2012 17:05

Hello Smile. May I de-lurk and join this thread? This is my second week doing 5:2. The first week I found easy. However, Monday's fast left me feeling exhausted for Monday and Tuesday, despite eating a boiled egg for lunch and steamed salmon and greens with soy sauce for supper. I'm doing another fast on Friday so I'll see how that goes. I'm eating quite a lot on non-fast days. Anyone else doing this?

I've been exercising regularly since September but despite feeling much fitter, I've not lost any weight. I'd like to lose about 2 stone, so hopefully 5:2 will help.

I love all the recipe ideas!

Milimelo · 07/11/2012 18:41

Hi everybody!

I need to express my disappointment. It's my fifth day of fast and since last week (two fast), I have lost nothing and even regain 1 and a half lb on the three I had lost previously...! Okay, I admit it's good to have lost a pound and a half, but it's difficult to adapt my expectations. I imagined I would lose about the same average of weight each week for the first weeks, and it didn't happened that way.

I decided to do it again today despite everything, but it seems today is the hardest day ever. The psychological side of it is probably doing something in that. Also, with my youngest being sick and a lot to do with the selling of our house, I didn't sleep well since Thursday night. I need a little cheering up if anyone can. Have any of you went through this?

Again, sorry for my english...

TalkinPeace2 · 07/11/2012 19:14

((milimelo))
This is NOT a quick fix. And especially if your stress levels are high, your body may be hanging on to reserves that it thinks it will need.

Sleep is really important
Can you go to bed a bit earlier, read - nothing electronic or other stimuli in your room - and make sure your room is really dark to help your body clock. When the kids rouse you, keep light levels as low as you can while you settle them.
And house selling at the moment too - you have my sympathy.

Hang on in there as the benefits are to do with blood chemistry, not just weight loss and are you getting enough fluids...

Milimelo · 07/11/2012 19:27

Thank you TalkinPeace!

I know it's not a quick fix, but you know how sometimes "we"'re not reasonable. Especially with the stress kicking in. In fact, I naturally produce to much cortisol (stress hormones), so lately, with the house selling and everything that comes with it, my level must be really high! I do my best to relax, but the last couple of days, it was pretty hard.

Good luck for your house selling! Smile

GreenEggsAndNichts · 07/11/2012 19:51

Milimelo also, for what it's worth, the weight loss doesn't keep up the same over the first few weeks. The first week you see a larger number, because you'll have more pre and post-digested food in your system than in subsequent weeks where you won't have eaten as much.

So, you might have a 3 lb loss the first week, but I wouldn't expect to have that loss every week. It would be lower, 1-2lbs maybe. (Am just using these numbers as an example)

I suggest just sticking with it, and if you're worried, make sure you're not eating much more than your TDEE on non-fast days, especially if you're on 5:2 and not 4:3.

OP posts:
GreenEggsAndNichts · 07/11/2012 19:54

Rolf Hi! Welcome to the thread!

I'd say my first week or two, I did eat a lot on my non-fast days. I'm doing 4:3 and in those early days, I felt like I wanted to eat something of everything I'd been craving the day before.

Now I know there's always another day I can potentially eat those things, so I've calmed down quite a bit. Also, the appetite goes down after a while, at least in my experience. Hope that helps :)

OP posts:
used2bthin · 07/11/2012 20:05

I am also wanting to eat lots on my days off, but then been eating way too much anyway since late pregnancy then feeding. So I guess I should still be taking in less over all. I felt huge after a few days normal eating though, had my fast days mon and wed this week, maybe too close together or does it not matter?

Anyone else on here breastfeeding? My baby is only 4.5 months so I have a way to go before I won't be.

Bordercollielover · 07/11/2012 20:11

Someone fairly recently mentioned one of Joel Fuhrman's books. That reminded me that I find some of his ideas really useful. He calls himself a "Nutritarian" and has a system where he has ranked foods according to their nutritional value rather than just by calories alone. Using that information the idea is that instead of the negative approach of trying to make a limited number of calories go as far as possible, he uses a positive approach of trying to eat lots of high nutritive value foods. He says that we often crave more and more food because we have not met our nutritional requirements and that by using his method we will be satisfied with less.
I haven't explained it very well and some people do find his ideas challenging but I find it useful on eating days to use his approach, whereas previously my plan was really to eat the maximum volume of food, now I am going for maximum nutritional value. You don't have to read his books, the Nutritarian Food Pyramid is on the Internet somewhere.